Simpsons Showrunner Address Controvery & Backlash W/Apu

[Futureraven: Beelzebruv]

Apr 16, 2018 8:04:17 GMT -5 sfvega said:

Apr 16, 2018 7:24:36 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

None of that means that Apu still doesn’t represent some troubling things, or that there still isn’t more work to be done.

As a black man, I’m not comfortable with Lou and Carl being voiced by white actors either. I had a similar issue with Cleveland Brown from Family Guy. That never should have been okay in the first place.

Yes, that first paragraph is where the insensitive and progress part come in.

Also, this is a cartoon. So while men and women being played by men and women respectively, minorities being played by their true races/ethnicities would be great. But you don't see them, so they think people won't care. And budgeting for many characters to have its own actor wasn't really something I'm sure they wanted to do/was feasible. And again, that is a lot of cartoons' MO, to have voice actors who do a bunch of voices on the show. The problem I see is that the voice itself is a bad caricature and insensitive. The writing of the character isn't especially poor and the fact it is voiced by Azaria was probably just out of convenience to begin with and continuity after, and just pettiness and laziness to not have an actual Indian character at this point, even if it is separate from Apu. But from the standpoint of respresentation, I think it is worse that pretty much every show at the time didn't have an Indian character moreso than a cartoon doing one half-assed.

Actually, when making the show, they didn't want to have an Indian guy at the Kwik-E-Mart specifically to avoid this problem.

Then they told Hank to do "some kind of accent" and he went to Indian, they laughed so we have Apu.

[Lupin the Third]

Apr 16, 2018 6:17:27 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

Apr 15, 2018 18:11:41 GMT -5 @razzle said:

Apu is one of the more intelligent and hardworking characters on the show. f***ing babies. I dunno what he's like now im only going by classic simpsons.

No he isn’t. He’s a terrible, god awful store manager.

I mean, he did let an old guy try to freeze himself in his store freezer once. And locked another old guy in the store for 4 minutes.

[Rumble McSkirmish]

Apr 16, 2018 8:49:25 GMT -5 Lupin the Third said:

And locked another old guy in the store for 4 minutes.

Yeah but he would have wasted those minutes anyways so it's all good.

[Fauxnaki]

The problem isnt the show its the public as usual. They show runners made Apu a hardworking, intelligent, developt character. But all your average person will remember about Apu is that He owns a convience store and says "thank you come again0," which I've heard someone say to one of my work collegues at a store once. It does seem to happen to a lot with Indian people being compared to Apu, at least here anyway. I do feel sorry for them its such a tired old joke. Its the the Borat voice never died out for them.

Also about that Apus voiced not by an Indian is stupid seeing as most of the kids are voiced by and old lady now.

[Malcolm]

Apr 16, 2018 7:24:36 GMT -5 BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps said:

Apr 16, 2018 7:05:00 GMT -5 sfvega said:

The amount of people here willing to comment on the show while not getting the PC Thug reference is crazy. Great reference, btw. It never stops hurting.

As a Mexican, there were only two Mexican males (I think Pepe was hispanic) on the show in its prime, both voiced by white people one by a white woman. And Bumblebee Man was an even more egregious stereotype. And really, you couldn't pay me to give two shits about that. As someone who has actually been denied service for being brown, you would have a hard time convincing me that Hank Azaria voicing a brown guy (be it Indian or Mexican) is worth complaining about. Isn't that the whole point of progress? That many of the things that were acceptable (or more acceptable) then, aren't now? It's hard to compare this to blackface and some really awful caricatures of race throughout the history of TV or movies. Apu was presented as maybe the more thoughtful and wise of any character of the glory years of the show. And Azaria voiced Lou (the black police officer) and Bumblebee guy, and probably about 1/3rd of the characters on any given episode because he's a talented voice actor and already getting paid by the show. So yeah, it's very lazy and somewhat insensitive, especially in hindsight. But it seems like something incredibly minor to have such a huge issue with. I mean, if your biggest complaint about being an Indian person in the US is who Apu on the Simpsons is voiced by, isn't THAT progress?

None of that means that Apu still doesn’t represent some troubling things, or that there still isn’t more work to be done.

As a black man, I’m not comfortable with Lou and Carl being voiced by white actors either. I had a similar issue with Cleveland Brown from Family Guy. That never should have been okay in the first place.

And if that rumor about Cree Summers being rejected for voicing Meg because of being the "wrong ethnicity" is true, that just makes the whole thing worse. And hypocritical.

[Kevin Hamilton]

The public at large isn't really complaining. There's a sub-section of Indian fans that have said-have been saying "hey, we don't really care for this, and never have".

One can disagree or whatever, but it doesn't have much at all to do with PC anything. It's a group sayin "wow, it kinda sucks that this is our only representation."

That's all


Showrunners just seem kinda tone deaf in their response. A simple'we disagree' would probably have been better than a dismissal.

[The Summer of Muskrat XVII]

I haven't regularly watched the show in years, but did Apu regress as a character? Because I always felt they identified pretty early in the series (like, first couple seasons) that he was nothing but a one note, stereotype of a character and spent most of the latter half of the 90's trying to correct it

[YAKMAN is ICHIBAN]

I can't believe that this is 2018 and still a thing.

People still watch The Simpsons?

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2018 9:37:23 GMT -5 The Summer of Muskrat XVII said:

I haven't regularly watched the show in years, but did Apu regress as a character? Because I always felt they identified pretty early in the series (like, first couple seasons) that he was nothing but a one note, stereotype of a character and spent most of the latter half of the 90's trying to correct it

It's called Flanderization.

Seasons 5 through 12 focused on episodes where Apu was being built up and given this somewhat complex backstory, but once Jean got back in charge, he took a sledgehammer to all that because, as Futureraven: Beelzebruv said, he has a singular mindset as to what the show is supposed to be, and while Scully let things slide, it's Jean that should be criticized instead.

[Dragonfly]

Let me see if I can make the rambling mess of thoughts into a coherent post:

My great-grandfather came to this country from Italy in the early 20th century. He was keenly aware of the rampant stereotyping of the time, and made it his mission to not give the racists any fuel for their bigotry. Case in point: He made sure than no one in the family owned a gun or boxed. Why? An Italian with a gun or a background in the ring was code for "mafia thug," and we weren't mafia thugs. He loved things that he felt made Italians look good (Bruno Sammartino, the mainstream success of Frank Sinatra), and hated everything that he considered to be negative or offensive (pretty much everything else, including the rumors of Sinatra's mob ties). My dad, due to a variety of factors (including some unspeakable racism from my maternal grandfather), is the exact same way. He loathes any and all things he deems to be stereotypical or derogatory of Italian-American culture, be it Fat Tony, the "it's a-me, Mario!" accent or pretty much anything even remotely connected to The Sopranos. He watches The Godfather the way that some watch The Simpsons - praising the acting, storytelling and overall film making while heavily criticizing what he perceived to be insensitive cliches. There are some things he likes, but by and large, most Italian-focused media bugs the hell out of him.

My late grandmother was different. She would openly sing "Dominic the Donkey" at Christmas, say "that a-spicy meatball" and generally do the kind of things that would make my dad cringe. It wasn't that she liked the message or endorsed the racism that fueled such things - quite the opposite, actually. She wasn't laughing at Italians; she was laughing at the people who thought that making this kind of stuff was a good idea. And if you thought that crap was unironically hilarious, guess what? She was laughing at you, too.

Growing up, I always leaned towards my grandmother's way of thinking than my dad. Fat Tony was funny, dammit! And was proud that I liked pizza and tomato sauce and spicy meatballs! I always thought my dad was being oversensitive jackass... then I realized I was transgender. As I came to understand my feelings and after, I paid close attention to how people like me were portrayed in the media. My dad's anger suddenly made sense to me. I found only four things that didn't make me angry: Two episodes of WKRP in Cincinnati, the American Dad episode "LGBSteve" and Shun from the mid-90s OAV Here is Greenwood. Even then I had/have issues. The only reason why WKRP didn't piss me off was due to actor Frank Bonner's realistic, nuanced performance. (The actual scenes boiled down to "trans people are gross.") As for the anime, almost everyone people involved vehemently deny that Shun is trans and fall all over themselves to point out the she "likes girls" and "doing guy things." (Um... So do I. That doesn't prove shit, people.) To this day, I'm waiting for a piece of media that doesn't treat trans people as gross (Family Guy) drag queens (the entirety of the 1980s), hookers (Tangerine), liars/tricksters (the video game Catherine), drama queens (Transparent), selfish (Transparent) or a plot device to show how screwed up a family is (Transparent). (And don't get me started on RuPaul's Drag Race'). I have become my great grandfather and my dad all rolled into one, only without the trans equivalent of Bruno to save the day.

TL;DR, part one: A problem is still a problem, even if it doesn't directly affect or bother you. Put your feelings aside and listen.


That being said...

Shortly after the release of The Problem With Apu, I ran across an article talking about the "problem" with Kahn Souphanousinphone from King of the Hill. According to the piece, Kahn had and has a lot of good going for him. The Souphanousinphone family were never once portrayed as a total one-dimensional joke. Hell, one could argue that Kahn himself was the most realistic, developed character on a show full of realistic, developed characters. Minh and Connie were portrayed by an Asian actress (Lauren Tom), and Connie didn't have anything close to an accent. Laotian culture was never mocked, but subconscious western racism sure as hell was ("Chinese or Japanese?"). They even won an award for their overall positive portrayal of Asian-Americans. There was only one problem: Kahn was voiced by white actor Toby Huss. The activists quoted in the piece, while not fans of the initial casting, are willing to live that in exchange for all the positives. But the writer wasn't. Thanks to casting of Huss, Kahn was no better than Apu - maybe even worse. No amount of intent or good writing could fix that one mistake. And if you found the Souphanousinphone family funny, maybe you were a little racist too. After I finished, I checked to see who the article, thinking/hoping that it would be someone like Hari Kondabolu. Nope. The author was just another white freelancer who, according to their bio, "is currently living in Brooklyn." They weren't Asian. They weren't even in Texas! They were just some person with a sense of moral outrage, dying to spout off on an issue that no one really cared about.

...And therein lies my problem. Voices like this - the "think piece" crowd and the talk radio-style detractors they inevitably attract - ruin what should be a free exchange of ideas. These people (either side) aren't worried about fixing anything. They just want to yell, scream and feel morally superior to everyone. And it wasn't just Kahn that got this treatment. There were tons of articles piggybacking on The Problem With Apu, all saying how terrible people are for liking [insert "problematic" thing here]. And 95% of the authors were, again, cis white people from Brooklyn. Everyone's angry; no one's listening.

Notice how I didn't say "SJW" or some other silly internet terminology above. Just because your white or cisgender and stand for a certain issue doesn't mean your a bloated, righteous windbag desperate for clicks or ratings. Because here's the thing: There really is a problem with Apu. And Tony Soprano. And trans representation. We should talk about it, whether we're immediately affected by the issue or not. We should listen, just as I should have listened to my dad's complaints. And if you're a part of the "laughing ironically" crowd like my grandmother or Whoopi Goldberg, then great! We need to hear from you, too! But we never get to have that conversation. We, like Al Jean and everyone else, keep getting caught up in the think piece/talking head "I'm right! No, I'm right! No, I'm times infinity! Snowflake! Fascist!" war, and nothing get solved. We freak and get bogged down by semantics, threads get locked and everyone leaves mad. That is absolutely no way to handle ourselves.

TL;DR, part two: Not everyone who's passionate about a topic is unreasonable. Ignore the "haters" and start talking like adults.

[The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM}]

Just to throw my two cents in without reading anything else:

Yeah, I agree Apu is a good character. He's smart, hard working, forward thinking. Dude is represented great and I love him.

HOWEVER. I read an article recently by an Indian guy who, while he liked Apu growing up and didn't agree with the backlash, he changed his mind. The reason is because he didn't go thru some of the racism others received growing up that stemmed from Apu.

And thinking about it, growing up, the dude is right. Apu was the go-to name for kids to call anyone of Indian descent. "Thank you and, COME AGAIN!" was the go to phrase kids would say regarding Indian people. The idea that all Indians work at convenience stores stemmed from this show, because that's the ONLY exposure anyone had to an Indian character. So yes, Apu is a great character, but I absolutely see why people think of him as a racist stereotype.

Would giving him an Indian voice actor change things? Not unless they change everything else about him, too. His entire character is based around him being Indian. Switch him and Lou. Make Lou the Quick-E-Mart guy, make Apu a cop. Don't play into the stereotypes for gags, he's just a cop who happens to be Indian. That's the only fix I see.

[A Platypus Rave is Correct]

Apr 16, 2018 9:24:28 GMT -5 Kevin Hamilton said:

The public at large isn't really complaining. There's a sub-section of Indian fans that have said-have been saying "hey, we don't really care for this, and never have".

One can disagree or whatever, but it doesn't have much at all to do with PC anything. It's a group sayin "wow, it kinda sucks that this is our only representation."

That's all


Showrunners just seem kinda tone deaf in their response. A simple'we disagree' would probably have been better than a dismissal.

Apr 16, 2018 15:46:21 GMT -5 The Legendary Ring Troll {BLM} said:

Indians work at convenience stores stemmed from this show, because that's the ONLY exposure anyone had to an Indian character.

That's not where the stereotype comes from, it just perpetuated it.

the stereotype stemmed from well were most do... a lot of the lower caste Indians worked at convenience stores, drove cabs, and did other rather unskilled/dangerous but necessary labor.

See the Irish cop stereotype.

[axebomber]

I wonder how much Non-Indian representation exists in Bollywood? I wonder how many Asians are voicing non-Asians in anime?

I'm really disappointed some Indians have a problem with Apu. The guy who made the doc is a brother of a member of Das Racist. Their critique of stereotypes is hilarious, intelligent and supertalented. This guy just wants attention by attacking a beloved character. He's one of my favorite characters. I always thought he was portrayed with as much respect as a satirical show could have (this is a show that has a cop look like an actual pig). He was a good friend of Homer, an eligible bachelor who drove a trans-am and a successful business owner. Cutting corners is not an Indian stereotype, but one of all convenience store owners. It's a business joke, not an ethnic one. I bought expired milk at one a couple weeks ago without realizing. It happens. Homer is a satire of middle age straight white American man. Are we all stupid lazy drunks? If you want to get offended at a white guy playing an Indian complain about the Love Guru!

Saying voice actors can only play their race is a form of segregation and that's racist.

[Kevin Hamilton]

It's in no way segregation.

While I think VO actors can play other races, segregation doesn't enter into it.

[ANuclearError]

Putting aisde the debate on the problems with Apu himself as a character, there's a couple of things I wanna put forward.

I'm Scottish, and I personally don't give much of a damn about the way Willie is portrayed. However, that does not automatically mean that every Scottish person must think like me, or that any other stereotype-based character is equal. One of the points addressed in the video itself that started all this was how there weren't really any prominent alternative character approaches. Braveheart came out in the US around the same time as Who Shot Mr Burns Part 1, which heavily featured Willie as a character. The following year Trainspotting was released to cinemas, and the characters from that make Willie look like an English Lord by comparison.

Secondly, the way the writers addressed this through characters on the show is just absolutely pathetic, no matter if you agree or disagree. It's absolutely childish for them to interrupt the show who can self-gratuiously wank themselves over how they're right and someone else is wrong. I mean for Christ's sake, how thin-skinned must you be to go through the effort of writing, recording and animating a tantrum over being a hint of criticism. For years, people have bemoaned the Simpsons declining quality, and yet this is what sets them off? Pathetic.

From Lisa vs. Malibu Stacy to this is just a further sign of how the Simpsons has became a shadow of itself.

[BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps]

Apr 16, 2018 15:05:46 GMT -5 Dragonfly said:

Let me see if I can make the rambling mess of thoughts into a coherent post:

My great-grandfather came to this country from Italy in the early 20th century. He was keenly aware of the rampant stereotyping of the time, and made it his mission to not give the racists any fuel for their bigotry. Case in point: He made sure than no one in the family owned a gun or boxed. Why? An Italian with a gun or a background in the ring was code for "mafia thug," and we weren't mafia thugs. He loved things that he felt made Italians look good (Bruno Sammartino, the mainstream success of Frank Sinatra), and hated everything that he considered to be negative or offensive (pretty much everything else, including the rumors of Sinatra's mob ties). My dad, due to a variety of factors (including some unspeakable racism from my maternal grandfather), is the exact same way. He loathes any and all things he deems to be stereotypical or derogatory of Italian-American culture, be it Fat Tony, the "it's a-me, Mario!" accent or pretty much anything even remotely connected to The Sopranos. He watches The Godfather the way that some watch The Simpsons - praising the acting, storytelling and overall film making while heavily criticizing what he perceived to be insensitive cliches. There are some things he likes, but by and large, most Italian-focused media bugs the hell out of him.

My late grandmother was different. She would openly sing "Dominic the Donkey" at Christmas, say "that a-spicy meatball" and generally do the kind of things that would make my dad cringe. It wasn't that she liked the message or endorsed the racism that fueled such things - quite the opposite, actually. She wasn't laughing at Italians; she was laughing at the people who thought that making this kind of stuff was a good idea. And if you thought that crap was unironically hilarious, guess what? She was laughing at you, too.

Growing up, I always leaned towards my grandmother's way of thinking than my dad. Fat Tony was funny, dammit! And was proud that I liked pizza and tomato sauce and spicy meatballs! I always thought my dad was being oversensitive jackass... then I realized I was transgender. As I came to understand my feelings and after, I paid close attention to how people like me were portrayed in the media. My dad's anger suddenly made sense to me. I found only four things that didn't make me angry: Two episodes of WKRP in Cincinnati, the American Dad episode "LGBSteve" and Shun from the mid-90s OAV Here is Greenwood. Even then I had/have issues. The only reason why WKRP didn't piss me off was due to actor Frank Bonner's realistic, nuanced performance. (The actual scenes boiled down to "trans people are gross.") As for the anime, almost everyone people involved vehemently deny that Shun is trans and fall all over themselves to point out the she "likes girls" and "doing guy things." (Um... So do I. That doesn't prove shit, people.) To this day, I'm waiting for a piece of media that doesn't treat trans people as gross (Family Guy) drag queens (the entirety of the 1980s), hookers (Tangerine), liars/tricksters (the video game Catherine), drama queens (Transparent), selfish (Transparent) or a plot device to show how screwed up a family is (Transparent). (And don't get me started on RuPaul's Drag Race'). I have become my great grandfather and my dad all rolled into one, only without the trans equivalent of Bruno to save the day.

TL;DR, part one: A problem is still a problem, even if it doesn't directly affect or bother you. Put your feelings aside and listen.


That being said...

Shortly after the release of The Problem With Apu, I ran across an article talking about the "problem" with Kahn Souphanousinphone from King of the Hill. According to the piece, Kahn had and has a lot of good going for him. The Souphanousinphone family were never once portrayed as a total one-dimensional joke. Hell, one could argue that Kahn himself was the most realistic, developed character on a show full of realistic, developed characters. Minh and Connie were portrayed by an Asian actress (Lauren Tom), and Connie didn't have anything close to an accent. Laotian culture was never mocked, but subconscious western racism sure as hell was ("Chinese or Japanese?"). They even won an award for their overall positive portrayal of Asian-Americans. There was only one problem: Kahn was voiced by white actor Toby Huss. The activists quoted in the piece, while not fans of the initial casting, are willing to live that in exchange for all the positives. But the writer wasn't. Thanks to casting of Huss, Kahn was no better than Apu - maybe even worse. No amount of intent or good writing could fix that one mistake. And if you found the Souphanousinphone family funny, maybe you were a little racist too. After I finished, I checked to see who the article, thinking/hoping that it would be someone like Hari Kondabolu. Nope. The author was just another white freelancer who, according to their bio, "is currently living in Brooklyn." They weren't Asian. They weren't even in Texas! They were just some person with a sense of moral outrage, dying to spout off on an issue that no one really cared about.

...And therein lies my problem. Voices like this - the "think piece" crowd and the talk radio-style detractors they inevitably attract - ruin what should be a free exchange of ideas. These people (either side) aren't worried about fixing anything. They just want to yell, scream and feel morally superior to everyone. And it wasn't just Kahn that got this treatment. There were tons of articles piggybacking on The Problem With Apu, all saying how terrible people are for liking [insert "problematic" thing here]. And 95% of the authors were, again, cis white people from Brooklyn. Everyone's angry; no one's listening.

Notice how I didn't say "SJW" or some other silly internet terminology above. Just because your white or cisgender and stand for a certain issue doesn't mean your a bloated, righteous windbag desperate for clicks or ratings. Because here's the thing: There really is a problem with Apu. And Tony Soprano. And trans representation. We should talk about it, whether we're immediately affected by the issue or not. We should listen, just as I should have listened to my dad's complaints. And if you're a part of the "laughing ironically" crowd like my grandmother or Whoopi Goldberg, then great! We need to hear from you, too! But we never get to have that conversation. We, like Al Jean and everyone else, keep getting caught up in the think piece/talking head "I'm right! No, I'm right! No, I'm times infinity! Snowflake! Fascist!" war, and nothing get solved. We freak and get bogged down by semantics, threads get locked and everyone leaves mad. That is absolutely no way to handle ourselves.

TL;DR, part two: Not everyone who's passionate about a topic is unreasonable. Ignore the "haters" and start talking like adults.

You don't have to be part of a certain group to be bothered by a portrayal relating to them. Maybe that "outraged" person is just compassionate, and really does want to learn more about that issue and help to work towards making it better? I identify as straight, but I can still be upset at seeing a work of fiction present its few gay characters in an offensive light. I'm African-American, and I understand why people of all varieties are bothered by Apu, so I empathize with them.

I don't feel there are as many disingenuous activists as you do. What you're seeing is a generation who has access to more information than ever, and it can be accessed faster, so it's not hard for someone to get on their computer, learn about the history of racist portrayals in media, and come to a conclusion that maybe stuff like this isn't ok. To assume that so many of them are just on high horses is dangerous, I feel, and takes away from what the main purposes of these discussions should be- which is, what are the things that fueled these ridiculous stereotypes in the first place?

Once we get into that, more people learn about each other and different cultures at large, we'll probably see more nuanced portrayals of South Asians and other people in Western media, and thus outdated characters like Apu are probably just going to keep fading away.

[HMARK Center]

I'm also of the mind that there are more positive-minded, well-intentioned activists and allies out there than people think. I'd rather someone go too far in attempting to be compassionate than go too far trying to shut down people who voice concerns on stuff like this, for certain.

However, one thing I'll definitely agree with is that there are too many free-floating think piece sites out there with editors who are just hungry for hate clicks, so they'll run about anything. A white guy "currently residing in Brooklyn" trying to communicate on issues like this, yeah, that smacks of an editor saying "Get me a hot take on this story and get it to me fresh", all while the writer just tries to play up an angle that'll get a buzz going without much substance.

A white writer communicating experiences with Indian/Laotian/etc. associates and friends would have more to say, but speaking as a straight cis white dude in America, it's certainly obnoxious to hear from fellow straight cis white dudes from America who pretend they know what a real identity affront feels like; at best what we can offer is shutting up and listening, or communicating support for other traditionally ignored groups who want to be heard now that more visible speech platforms exist, and being respectful when entering into dialog on this stuff. Beyond that it just goes into theatrics.

I'll grant some leeway for, say, college kids, as I mentioned before; a kid who wants to do the right thing and ends up being overzealous is a kid I'd rather have to deal with than one who wants to be an instigating troll. Once you're in the professional realm, it's time to grow and listen more.

[Deleted]

Apr 16, 2018 7:56:22 GMT -5 Futureraven: Beelzebruv said:

Apr 16, 2018 7:51:23 GMT -5 @jdogindy said:

The irony is that because Manjula & the Octuplets were Mike Scully era creations & Jean has essentially undone everything that was done in the Mirkin/Oakley & Weinstein/Scully eras with the exception of Maude's death, they've virtually been retired, and before some of you suggest she got the Troy McClure/Lionel Hutz treatment, Tress replaced Jan Hooks long before her death.

I mean, in a different/related sense, that seems to be a problem with Al Jean. The guy has 1 specific version of The Simpsons he wants to do, a safe version, nothing will grow, nothing will change. The irony is when you look back at those shows, they were taking risks, it was subversive, even the style of drawing was more experimental.

Used to be you'd get a new show runner every couple of years, get new people, new ideas etc. How long as he been back? No way he's going to acknowledge that something should be different now than it was in 1993.

Sit down because you may not like the news.

Jean has been showrunner for going on 16 seasons.

Yes. 16.

Matt Selman does a few episodes each year that are usually better than the norm, but he's likely never becoming a full time runner.

[Skeletor]

...it took HOW many years before raising eyebrows?

[El Cokehead del Knife Fight]

Apr 16, 2018 18:00:34 GMT -5 Skeletor said:

...it took HOW many years before raising eyebrows?

It's been raising eyebrows from 25 years dude. Kids would be calling Indian kids Apu or doing the 'thank you come again' thing to them throughout high school and my later years of primary school.