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Post by brown bricks on Jun 9, 2018 14:43:53 GMT -5
This show finally made me pull the trigger and cancel my NJPW subscription. It bothered me when New Japan resigned Elgin, but I don’t want to support a company that would put a title on him. And I know people love him, but I just can’t take Omega seriously. I’ve tried so hard, but I just cringe every time. It also doesn’t help that New Japan has become as stale and predictable as the WWE.
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JoDaNa1281
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Post by JoDaNa1281 on Jun 9, 2018 14:45:56 GMT -5
Dominion 2018: Night of the Gaijin As Callis made sure to mention on the post-show, a good night for Canadians, with Omega, Jericho & Elgin all winning gold.
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the2ndevil
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 9, 2018 14:49:24 GMT -5
HOLY f***! ABOUT A YEAR AND A HALF TOO LATE BUT THANK CHRIST ALMIGHTY FINALLY This is where I’m at for this, and when Brock loses his, I’ll repeat it then.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 9, 2018 14:50:46 GMT -5
We’re only halfway through 2018, and Omega already feels like he deserves “wrestler of the year” awards. On top of Okada/Omega 4, he’s also sitting on that ***** war with Jericho, the Bucks/Golden Lovers at Long Beach, the Jay White and Hangman Page matches, and I thought his Cody match at Supercard was great. He’s pumping out classic after classic, so barring anything unfortunate he’s on his way to sweeping some votes. I’d put Gargano on the list too after his back to back classics
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 9, 2018 14:52:45 GMT -5
This show finally made me pull the trigger and cancel my NJPW subscription. It bothered me when New Japan resigned Elgin, but I don’t want to support a company that would put a title on him. And I know people love him, but I just can’t take Omega seriously. I’ve tried so hard, but I just cringe every time. It also doesn’t help that New Japan has become as stale and predictable as the WWE. Different strokes I guess Also many people have said Elgin is talented but we were all actively saying f*** him in the thread for his match. Like I said in the thread good for him that he dropped 40 pounds and he’s talented bastard but he can f*** off
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 9, 2018 14:54:17 GMT -5
Sounds like an awesome show, i really need to watch more njpw as its the best in pro wrestling from the sounds of it. Is it fair to say WWE is for kids and casuals while NJPW is for the real pro wrestling fans? You are a “real pro wrestling fan” if you enjoy WWE too. Let’s enjoy that we have a great alternative to WWE
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the2ndevil
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Where Is Your Santa, Now?
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 9, 2018 15:02:27 GMT -5
Here’s a question.
How exclusive are the NJPW contracts? Like, there is zero chance of Jericho showing up on RAW for an IC Champ Vs. IC Champ match with Seth Rollins, right?
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the2ndevil
Grimlock
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Where Is Your Santa, Now?
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Post by the2ndevil on Jun 9, 2018 15:04:09 GMT -5
Sounds like an awesome show, i really need to watch more njpw as its the best in pro wrestling from the sounds of it. Is it fair to say WWE is for kids and casuals while NJPW is for the real pro wrestling fans? You are a “real pro wrestling fan” if you enjoy WWE too. Let’s enjoy that we have a great alternative to WWE Lord, words cannot express how much I detest the “true fan” argument in all its forms.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 9, 2018 15:07:17 GMT -5
Here’s a question. How exclusive are the NJPW contracts? Like, there is zero chance of Jericho showing up on RAW for an IC Champ Vs. IC Champ match with Seth Rollins, right? Zero chance unless WWE and NJPW signed an agreement to work with each other in a talent exchange like they used to do with WCW
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jun 9, 2018 15:10:03 GMT -5
Any idea how much they are roughly? I can currently get a round trip for around £500-600 so $670-800, and am not sure if it's gonna drop below that. Yeah I don't smoke. I might be crashing with a friend who lives out there for a bit, but will also be doing hotels as I'll make a full holiday trip of it so thanks a ton for that tip! If you can still get the 500-600, get that right now! 670-800 I wouldn't jump on, but wow yeah get that! I suggest this: Fly in on December 29 so that you arrive during the day December 30. If you want to maximize your wrestling experience in Japan, check out these shows that are all at Koruken Hall (which happens to be across from the Tokyo Dome): 12/31 (noon) - Ice Ribbon's Ribbonmania (very fun Joshi promotion, probably the most overtly Japanese thing you'll see in-ring, great way to start your visit) 1/3 (noon) - All Japan Pro Wrestling (they're running shows on 1/2 as well, but 1/3 is the one that the legends are booked for so you'll get to see a lot of greats you otherwise might not ever have the chance) 1/3 (evening) - DDT Pro (the number 2 promotion in Japan right now, this is where Kenny Omega and Ibushi got their starts. This is the only show of the bunch I'd strongly urge you to get tickets for as soon as you land in Japan as it will sell out) If online conversions are correct, you'll be able to get great Wrestle Kingdom seats for £51.06. These other three shows will cost either £27.23 or £13.62 each if they're running a new years deal. The only other show around New Years is Michunoku Pro typically does an annual on on the 28/29, but it's always a very small, intimate 300-person (not a typo) venue and unless you have someone there to get tickets in advance (which it sounds like you may) it's virtually impossible to score tickets for. There's two major wrestling shops in Tokyo, the official New Japan store (which will be closed until Jan 3rd - and this is the first place to get all your Wrestle Kingdom merch) and the other major wrestling store down the block from it whose name escapes me right now. Plan to spend at least an hour at that latter one if only for all the tremendous memorabilia. Also, the Tower Records in Tokyo always does a partnership with NJPW every year for Wrestle Kingdom, so they'll have some great exclusive goodies, as well as bonuses like posters if you spend a certain amount with NJPW items as part of your purchase. This is the one place to get Wrestling stuff that isn't closed at all during the week of New Years, so go here first. The one drawback about planning a wrestling trip around Wrestle Kingdom is that Ribera's Steakhouse is closed 12/28-1/3 and reopens on the 4th at the height of the Wrestle Kingdom rush. Unless you extend your holiday longer by a few days past WK, you may have to miss it this go-round. Non-wrestling related, do New Years Eve at the Meiji Shrine, absolute beautiful experience. January 2, go see the Emperor speak as he only makes public appearances two days a year (once on January 2 and one on his birthday) and since this emperor is stepping down, this is your last chance to see him. Trust me, super powerful, absolutely do it. Finally, the one item I'd definitely pack is Pepto Bismol in chewable form, or whatever the equivalent brand is where you are. You're going to be eating a lot of great and very different food, some of which may not agree with you, and there's no comparable item to Pepto Bismol on the market in Japan, so bring a box just to be safe. Hope this helps. Woah, that was super helpful, thanks a ton. I used to be familiar with DDT but haven't seen any of their stuff since Kenny left, actually. AJPW...man I dont think Ive seen any since the 90s. Ice Ribbon is completely new to me and sounds cool. My original plan was to do New Year at home and fly out on the 1st Jan itself doing a bit of a tour around for a week or two, so the steakhouse is a plan, but overall this may cause a rethink, especially the Emperor detail. Hrmmm...
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jun 9, 2018 15:18:28 GMT -5
So, Naito is NJPW’s most over guy. A part timer tells him he is going to whoop his ass, he calls his shot and beats his ass and leaves him in a bloody heap. And takes his belt. In his second match. If WWE did this, fans would riot. While I absolutely agree, even now, that Naito should have got the belt at Wrestle Kingdom, I think the difference also is him losing the IC Title is a sign, if anything, that he's about to go back to the top of the card, especially Omega's post victory promo taking a shot at him. He felt VERY aimless for the last few months, but now it feels like there's an actual sense of a plan with Naito. We’re only halfway through 2018, and Omega already feels like he deserves “wrestler of the year” awards. On top of Okada/Omega 4, he’s also sitting on that ***** war with Jericho, the Bucks/Golden Lovers at Long Beach, the Jay White and Hangman Page matches, and I thought his Cody match at Supercard was great. He’s pumping out classic after classic, so barring anything unfortunate he’s on his way to sweeping some votes. I think it's a shame Suzuki cooled off so rapidly after winning the IC Title. He tore it up with Goto and Tanahashi in two absolutely fantastic storytelling matches, and then just things sort of fizzled out. And yeah, Elgin is....yeah. Not a fan of that decision.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Jun 9, 2018 15:43:03 GMT -5
You can't apply western wrestling logic to a Japanese wrestling product. There's a lot different culturally. I really enjoyed the match, but after the promo Jericho cut last week, I thought It telegraphed Naito winning. But, Jericho coming in and doing exactly what he said he would seemed like something that will hurt Naito. Again, you're applying Western logic. There's a different perception from the audience, a different flow to the story archs, and a different style of narrative. You could say the same thing about Rey Mysterio losing his first match in New Japan - in the West that definitely would hurt him and extinguish some of his hype right away. However, it's well known Rey's just coming back from injury - and with the real sport-presentation that Japanese wrestling has always had, one of the few things that their audience is conditioned to believe is that someone just coming off of a major illness/injury/surgery etc. would not be able to beat one of the top talents in the world their first match back. It's exceptionally rare that ever happens. It's things like that which show while there's still four corners and three ropes, there's a lot of major difference between American and Japanese wrestling. While there are booking flubs like Goto whose character has seemingly becoming the repeated choke artist - that took years to do that damage. Jericho was brought in as a legit legend in Japan, and by displaying the sheer ruthlessness gave Naito a believable loss. That doesn't mean Naito is getting Ziggler'ed or anything, rather the back-to-back major losses Naito has had this year makes the story of him winning G1 this year or climbing back up all the more emotional. Japan is much more receptive and patient with comeback narratives than America is. Also, "part-timers" as we know them in WWE really aren't a thing in that part of the world.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Jun 9, 2018 15:52:31 GMT -5
If you can still get the 500-600, get that right now! 670-800 I wouldn't jump on, but wow yeah get that! I suggest this: Fly in on December 29 so that you arrive during the day December 30. If you want to maximize your wrestling experience in Japan, check out these shows that are all at Koruken Hall (which happens to be across from the Tokyo Dome): 12/31 (noon) - Ice Ribbon's Ribbonmania (very fun Joshi promotion, probably the most overtly Japanese thing you'll see in-ring, great way to start your visit) 1/3 (noon) - All Japan Pro Wrestling (they're running shows on 1/2 as well, but 1/3 is the one that the legends are booked for so you'll get to see a lot of greats you otherwise might not ever have the chance) 1/3 (evening) - DDT Pro (the number 2 promotion in Japan right now, this is where Kenny Omega and Ibushi got their starts. This is the only show of the bunch I'd strongly urge you to get tickets for as soon as you land in Japan as it will sell out) If online conversions are correct, you'll be able to get great Wrestle Kingdom seats for £51.06. These other three shows will cost either £27.23 or £13.62 each if they're running a new years deal. The only other show around New Years is Michunoku Pro typically does an annual on on the 28/29, but it's always a very small, intimate 300-person (not a typo) venue and unless you have someone there to get tickets in advance (which it sounds like you may) it's virtually impossible to score tickets for. There's two major wrestling shops in Tokyo, the official New Japan store (which will be closed until Jan 3rd - and this is the first place to get all your Wrestle Kingdom merch) and the other major wrestling store down the block from it whose name escapes me right now. Plan to spend at least an hour at that latter one if only for all the tremendous memorabilia. Also, the Tower Records in Tokyo always does a partnership with NJPW every year for Wrestle Kingdom, so they'll have some great exclusive goodies, as well as bonuses like posters if you spend a certain amount with NJPW items as part of your purchase. This is the one place to get Wrestling stuff that isn't closed at all during the week of New Years, so go here first. The one drawback about planning a wrestling trip around Wrestle Kingdom is that Ribera's Steakhouse is closed 12/28-1/3 and reopens on the 4th at the height of the Wrestle Kingdom rush. Unless you extend your holiday longer by a few days past WK, you may have to miss it this go-round. Non-wrestling related, do New Years Eve at the Meiji Shrine, absolute beautiful experience. January 2, go see the Emperor speak as he only makes public appearances two days a year (once on January 2 and one on his birthday) and since this emperor is stepping down, this is your last chance to see him. Trust me, super powerful, absolutely do it. Finally, the one item I'd definitely pack is Pepto Bismol in chewable form, or whatever the equivalent brand is where you are. You're going to be eating a lot of great and very different food, some of which may not agree with you, and there's no comparable item to Pepto Bismol on the market in Japan, so bring a box just to be safe. Hope this helps. Woah, that was super helpful, thanks a ton. I used to be familiar with DDT but haven't seen any of their stuff since Kenny left, actually. AJPW...man I dont think Ive seen any since the 90s. Ice Ribbon is completely new to me and sounds cool. My original plan was to do New Year at home and fly out on the 1st Jan itself doing a bit of a tour around for a week or two, so the steakhouse is a plan, but overall this may cause a rethink, especially the Emperor detail. Hrmmm... Oh yeah, like if you don't have New Years plan, and you're making the trip anyway, definitely be there for New Years. Like I said, it's their biggest holiday of the year so 1) everything is gorgeous 2) everyone is happy and helpful 3) everyone is out of town so there's next to no lines at all the major landmarks you want to see 4) historically speaking seeing the Emperor is pretty big. Were you planning on just doing Tokyo or more of Japan outside of it?
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Post by Tea & Crumpets on Jun 9, 2018 16:19:47 GMT -5
Woah, that was super helpful, thanks a ton. I used to be familiar with DDT but haven't seen any of their stuff since Kenny left, actually. AJPW...man I dont think Ive seen any since the 90s. Ice Ribbon is completely new to me and sounds cool. My original plan was to do New Year at home and fly out on the 1st Jan itself doing a bit of a tour around for a week or two, so the steakhouse is a plan, but overall this may cause a rethink, especially the Emperor detail. Hrmmm... Oh yeah, like if you don't have New Years plan, and you're making the trip anyway, definitely be there for New Years. Like I said, it's their biggest holiday of the year so 1) everything is gorgeous 2) everyone is happy and helpful 3) everyone is out of town so there's next to no lines at all the major landmarks you want to see 4) historically speaking seeing the Emperor is pretty big. Were you planning on just doing Tokyo or more of Japan outside of it? Plan was a bit of everywhere really. Tokyo, try and head over to Kyoto and Osaka, maybe get out to Okinawa or Sapporo or Hiroshima/Itsukushima. Basically as many places as possible dependent on how much work leave I can get at once/budget I can save.
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Urethra Franklin
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Post by Urethra Franklin on Jun 9, 2018 16:21:45 GMT -5
Obviously, almost the whole show was tremendous, but I think what makes Kenny Omega and Kazuchika Okada so special is that this is the fourth match they’ve worked in 18 months and they’ve all been different.
Every match told a different story and there were callbacks to the other matches and other moments in the rivalry. This was two guys at the top of their industry, who obviously have a huge amount of chemistry and love working with each other.
And I love their approach in that they’ve never tried to one-up the last match. They’ve never said, “Okay, we set the bar here last time, so we have to outdo that.” What they’ve done is change the way the story was told and each match incorporated the last into the storytelling and the added drama and emotion made each one special and better than the last.
You hate to be hyperbolic, but it’s hard to imagine very many better feuds in the history of pro wrestling.
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Post by Some Baritone guy IS REDEEMED! on Jun 9, 2018 16:33:52 GMT -5
On one hand I get it with Elgin. They're trying to expand outside of Japan, so putting titles on Gaijin makes a whole lot of sense and Elgin is extremely popular in Japan and frankly he does good work in the ring. The problem is that he has an enormous scandal following him since December which just so happens to be in regards to THE hot button issue right now in the US right now. I think it would have served them well to do more market research in America because as much as people in the US may enjoy his work in the ring, they will never fully invest in Elgin's stories.
Take Jay Briscoe for example. Jay was a universally well liked wrestler and everyone was stoked on him for his world title reign. And then he made his homophobic remarks and even 5 years later if his name comes up that's one of the first things mentioned.
Now multiply the severity of his offense by a few degrees and you're getting an idea of where Elgin is at. Think about it Elgin's offense wasn't just heinous words it was active participation in the cover up of sexual assault. In a climate where if there is any chance that the accusations are true it is treated as an absolute certainty how much worse do you think it is that we actually have seen hard evidence of it?
In Japan fans may be able to put that aside and just enjoy the performance, but North American and European fans aren't like that. This may burn them if they don't correct course soon.
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Convoy
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Post by Convoy on Jun 9, 2018 16:41:53 GMT -5
Just finished watching the show. It was... interesting. Not quite sure how I feel about it just yet.
Initial reaction for me was that it was obviously gaijin-heavy on the victories. I've probably made it clear by now that I'm not the biggest fan of Omega/Bucks (though I don't discount their talent and business savvy). Curious to see how things are for the promotion going forward. Thought certain talent would be gone by the next WK, but between All In and the clear integration/power wielded by Western storylines, I don't think that's happening.
There is definitely something to be said for the omen of Meij's introduction at the beginning of the show. New Japan introduces their new gaijin President, who speaks of expansion and international appeal. Then they deliver a show where all heavyweight championships end up around the waist of Western talent. Makes sense for their aim.
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jun 9, 2018 17:54:56 GMT -5
Watched the Jericho and Omega matches. Thought Jericho's match was pretty damn good minus the slight mess up towards the end. I couldn't tell if the crowd were supporting Jericho or Naito and it sounded to me like they were kinda flip flopping between booing and cheering both guys which was kinda weird. Not in a 50/50 Cena way but everyone doing the same thing together.
I liked Omega Okada but thought it was a little repetitive at times in terms of the moves. The knee to the face looks great and he leg slaps it really well so sounds killer but there was like a bajillion of them. No denying the one at the end was incredible though. I don't know if the repetition was the story or call backs or just to drag it out longer to make it "epic" or the "Japanese style" but at some points I was like "Man ANOTHER reverse hurricanrana? ANOTHER tombstone? ANOTHER drop kick to the back of the head? The 36th knee to the face?". In between all that there were really cool spots though and I loved some of the reversals. I've not watched many NJPW matches but whenever I do, the reversal sequences are always the best. The crowd were f***ing LOSING IT when Omega hoisted him up for the finisher at the end too which was awesome.
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Allie Kitsune
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 9, 2018 18:01:36 GMT -5
I felt like Omega/Okada was starting to drag once they got close to the end.
I know, I know "GTFO and go back to WWE, casual!"...
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jun 9, 2018 18:06:27 GMT -5
Watched the Jericho and Omega matches. Thought Jericho's match was pretty damn good minus the slight mess up towards the end. I couldn't tell if the crowd were supporting Jericho or Naito and it sounded to me like they were kinda flip flopping between booing and cheering both guys which was kinda weird. Not in a 50/50 Cena way but everyone doing the same thing together. Osaka has hated Naito since WK8 but it's waned somewhat since last year with Naito getting more cheers. I believe Naito has said he prefers Osaka boos him and hope it never changes
They got behind him in certain instances but yeah that's how it is. You also have to take into account that Jericho is so into his hated dick head routine he doesn't care though i'm pretty sure he doesn't know the history of Naito and Osaka. Also got to remember Jericho got some cheers against Kenny as well so despite him being the most despicable heel this side of Minoru Suzuki the crowd was always going to be 50/50 at best but lean a little more towards Jericho
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