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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jun 10, 2018 22:59:20 GMT -5
Okay, after reading all that about Naito I have to ask: Isn't it all a bit too inside baseball for the average person? The idea of a guy being disillusioned and cynical but deep down still seeking crowd approval but he ends up failing is a tricky thing to pull off. It is also at odds with matches like the one with Jericho, where Jericho simply was out to beat him down and could care less. The problem with the current Naito (as in tranquilo) is that it's tough to really build a company around a guy that doesn't care. Win or lose the IC title? Meh, it's a junk belt. Lose the main event of WK? A little worse but he'll get over it. If the idea is that he reverts to moves that represent his failed original run, then it's a real Catch 22 because being tranquilo and apathetic is a dead end gimmick in the long run. Being that way did him no good vs. Jericho the other night. So if that approach doesn't work sometimes and reverting to white meat babyface stuff doesn't work...what will? Contrast that to Omega's journey. His turn to the darkness of the Bullet Club was a desperate move of a struggling wrestler and it paid off. That said, it didn't quite get him to the promised land, since a part of him was empty. Reuniting with Ibushi filled that void, and to some extent it balanced the equation and put him over the top to finally beat Okada. In Omega's case he actually has his cake and may well eat it too since he may well transform the Bullet Club/The Elite into a very different group than what he originally joined. All he has to do is now beat Cody and get him back in line or make amends. The story's biggest issue isn't that he's caring, it's that he's not evolving. Naito become something darker and more bitter because the fans rejected what he was. When he finds the fans' approval, he reverts back to something that they don't like, and more importantly, something that wasn't good enough. What Naito needs isn't to not care about anything ever, it's to understand what people have come to get behind him for and to evolve, to finally grow from his past and leave it behind him. He can't become anything else until he's come to terms with things and learns to move on from it. He needs to learn how to care, not to just straight-up not care.
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Jun 10, 2018 23:03:46 GMT -5
Okay, after reading all that about Naito I have to ask: Isn't it all a bit too inside baseball for the average person? The idea of a guy being disillusioned and cynical but deep down still seeking crowd approval but he ends up failing is a tricky thing to pull off. It is also at odds with matches like the one with Jericho, where Jericho simply was out to beat him down and could care less. The problem with the current Naito (as in tranquilo) is that it's tough to really build a company around a guy that doesn't care. Win or lose the IC title? Meh, it's a junk belt. Lose the main event of WK? A little worse but he'll get over it. If the idea is that he reverts to moves that represent his failed original run, then it's a real Catch 22 because being tranquilo and apathetic is a dead end gimmick in the long run. Being that way did him no good vs. Jericho the other night. So if that approach doesn't work sometimes and reverting to white meat babyface stuff doesn't work...what will? Contrast that to Omega's journey. His turn to the darkness of the Bullet Club was a desperate move of a struggling wrestler and it paid off. That said, it didn't quite get him to the promised land, since a part of him was empty. Reuniting with Ibushi filled that void, and to some extent it balanced the equation and put him over the top to finally beat Okada. In Omega's case he actually has his cake and may well eat it too since he may well transform the Bullet Club/The Elite into a very different group than what he originally joined. All he has to do is now beat Cody and get him back in line or make amends. Everything that I said about Naito has been done on-screen. His gimmick wasn't that he didn't actually care, he was actively flippant as a sign of disrespect in response to the disrespect he's felt. But now that he's back in the good graces of the fans he doesn't know how to react. He got beat to the punch by Jericho, which should be his bread and butter. For him to get to the next level, he's going to go back to the mind games and f***ery that won him the title in the first place.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jun 11, 2018 6:42:53 GMT -5
Okay, after reading all that about Naito I have to ask: Isn't it all a bit too inside baseball for the average person? The idea of a guy being disillusioned and cynical but deep down still seeking crowd approval but he ends up failing is a tricky thing to pull off. It is also at odds with matches like the one with Jericho, where Jericho simply was out to beat him down and could care less. The problem with the current Naito (as in tranquilo) is that it's tough to really build a company around a guy that doesn't care. Win or lose the IC title? Meh, it's a junk belt. Lose the main event of WK? A little worse but he'll get over it. If the idea is that he reverts to moves that represent his failed original run, then it's a real Catch 22 because being tranquilo and apathetic is a dead end gimmick in the long run. Being that way did him no good vs. Jericho the other night. So if that approach doesn't work sometimes and reverting to white meat babyface stuff doesn't work...what will? Contrast that to Omega's journey. His turn to the darkness of the Bullet Club was a desperate move of a struggling wrestler and it paid off. That said, it didn't quite get him to the promised land, since a part of him was empty. Reuniting with Ibushi filled that void, and to some extent it balanced the equation and put him over the top to finally beat Okada. In Omega's case he actually has his cake and may well eat it too since he may well transform the Bullet Club/The Elite into a very different group than what he originally joined. All he has to do is now beat Cody and get him back in line or make amends. Everything that I said about Naito has been done on-screen. His gimmick wasn't that he didn't actually care, he was actively flippant as a sign of disrespect in response to the disrespect he's felt. But now that he's back in the good graces of the fans he doesn't know how to react. He got beat to the punch by Jericho, which should be his bread and butter. For him to get to the next level, he's going to go back to the mind games and f***ery that won him the title in the first place. I like the touch of Chono calling him "the Dark Ace" a lot of the time when he's doing color commentary for a Naito match, in part because, well, Chono would know what that feels like given the trajectory of his own career. Anyway, post press conference last night Omega vs. Cody II is official for the Cow Palace, as is Jay White vs. Juice Robinson, while LIJ will get their rematch against the Bucks for the tag straps. Interestingly, they're also doing Naito and BUSHI vs. Okada and Ospreay. Kizuna Road, meanwhile, will feature shows main evented by Elgin vs. Goto for the NEVER strap, Hiromu defending against El Desperado, all of LIJ vs. a returning GBH and Taguchi Japan (Tanahashi, Taguchi, Henare, Makabe, and the returning Honma), and to celebrate the retirement of Super Strong Machine they've made one of my favorite match graphics ever: ![](https://www.njpw1972.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/0619_6.jpg) I dunno, severe lack of Giant Machine and Hulk Machine. EDIT: Meanwhile, at the press conference Kenny very politely called out the "domestic wrestlers", given the success that "outsiders" had at Dominion. Said something like "I've been a resident of Japan for awhile now, so I'm not singling them out; I want everyone at their best", basically saying it'll be needed because he feels the company's on the brink of breaking out to it's next step up internationally. Definitely spent a god chunk of time mentioning Naito, which makes a title clash between the two feel like it'll happen down the road.
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chrom
Backup Wench
Master of the rare undecuple post
Posts: 85,712
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Post by chrom on Jun 11, 2018 7:51:05 GMT -5
Post match interviews are up.
Ishii has stated that if Suzuki's so bad why doesn't he try fighting him instead of Young Lions
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AdamAFL was sooooo wrong
Hank Scorpio
note to all: he's a pants-less heathen
I Survived The Impact Spoilers 7/22/15-7/30/15
Posts: 7,097
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Post by AdamAFL was sooooo wrong on Jun 11, 2018 16:20:27 GMT -5
Post match interviews are up. Ishii has stated that if Suzuki's so bad why doesn't he try fighting him instead of Young Lions ![](https://grapsoftheday.files.wordpress.com/2017/01/minoru-suzuki.jpg?w=562)
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Post by corndog on Jun 12, 2018 2:02:45 GMT -5
I finally got done watching Dominion, had a busy weekend. Really enjoyed that show, don't think there was a bad match on the show. I was surprised Jericho won the IC title, hopefully this opens things up for Naito in the G1. But with Omega winning the belt, I feel like WK13 will be Omega/Okada V.
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lionheart21
Patti Mayonnaise
Once did a thing...
Posts: 30,866
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Post by lionheart21 on Jun 12, 2018 9:45:53 GMT -5
Post match interviews are up. Ishii has stated that if Suzuki's so bad why doesn't he try fighting him instead of Young Lions Telling Suzuki not to beat up Young Lions? Why not just tell the man to stop breathing while you're at it, Ishii?
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