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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 2, 2020 18:12:47 GMT -5
Horribly. It's the lowest-grossing Star Trek film in the franchise, taking just $67 million worldwide on a $60 million budget, and was the final nail in the coffin for Star Trek as a whole - Paramount lost faith in the franchise as it was and only a fan campaign saved Enterprise from being cancelled after the third season, though the fact that the fourth aired in the Friday night death slot showed just how little Paramount cared. Within two years of Nemesis the decision had been made that drastic action was to be taken to make Star Trek worth the cost of keeping around, and led to the replacement of Rick Berman as the creative head with Roberto Orci, Alex Kurtzman, and J.J. Abrams. The shake up had already started with Enterpise's fourth season. Berman and Braga stepped back, and prolific Star Trek writers Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens came on. Berman and Braga only came back for the hilariously bad series finale. Yeah, Manny Coto replaced Braga as showrunner on Enterprise in the final season. Berman was still nominally in charge of the franchise overall, but the 1-2 punch of Nemesis and Enterprise's first two seasons essentially finished him. In addition to the "Save Enterprise" petition there was also a "Fire Berman and Braga" petition as well. Whatever people's thoughts on "New Trek", the change was needed. Berman was fine as the creative head, but the loss of Ronald D. Moore was a real body blow the franchise never really recovered from. His work on DS9 is arguably the best Trek has ever been, and nothing that came after ever came close to matching it. Between over-saturation and the declining quality it was clear that creative team had run out of gas. |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Apr 2, 2020 20:22:42 GMT -5
The shake up had already started with Enterpise's fourth season. Berman and Braga stepped back, and prolific Star Trek writers Judith and Garfield Reeves-Stevens came on. Berman and Braga only came back for the hilariously bad series finale. Yeah, Manny Coto replaced Braga as showrunner on Enterprise in the final season. Berman was still nominally in charge of the franchise overall, but the 1-2 punch of Nemesis and Enterprise's first two seasons essentially finished him. In addition to the "Save Enterprise" petition there was also a "Fire Berman and Braga" petition as well. Whatever people's thoughts on "New Trek", the change was needed. Berman was fine as the creative head, but the loss of Ronald D. Moore was a real body blow the franchise never really recovered from. His work on DS9 is arguably the best Trek has ever been, and nothing that came after ever came close to matching it. Between over-saturation and the declining quality it was clear that creative team had run out of gas. Berman is a really fascinating figure in the behind the scenes of Star Trek. It's widely accepted that he was the stabilizing force that Next Generation needed, and it's his steady hand that allowed the show to become successful. But at the same time he is also the one that began restricting and ultimately stifling Star Trek. I remember in interviews, Jonathan Frakes explaining that there were certain camera angles Berman did not allow because they "weren't Star Trek." Berman also robbed us of Ron Jones, a composer that created some of the most well known and appreciated music of the series. The Borg theme? His. The music from Booby Trap and the Romulan theme? His. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 13, 2020 13:05:39 GMT -5
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Apr 13, 2020 13:10:56 GMT -5
I’m so f***ing hyped. Haven’t seen any of Picard. None. But I’ve been followed by their re:views of it and it’s made me (for the first time in my life) want to actually watch old Star Trek. (I’ve only watched ST: the movie, wrath of khan and the Kelvin flicks) |
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Post by thechase on Apr 14, 2020 9:28:29 GMT -5
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 18, 2020 20:33:03 GMT -5
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on May 18, 2020 20:49:48 GMT -5
I tapped out after 3 1/2 minutes. OMFG, get to the freaking point Mike, you damn boomer. Keep in mind I don't even like Picard, I think it's a shame to the franchise, but I am so sick of hearing these assclowns bitch on and on, and take the piss out of everything. |
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Post by HMARK Center on May 18, 2020 22:16:10 GMT -5
I tapped out after 3 1/2 minutes. OMFG, get to the freaking point Mike, you damn boomer. Keep in mind I don't even like Picard, I think it's a shame to the franchise, but I am so sick of hearing these assclowns bitch on and on, and take the piss out of everything. I really enjoy Red Letter Media, but two of the last Plinkett reviews have been Ghostbusters 2016 and The Last Jedi and they just...weren't particularly good. Just feels like they do their actual substantive movie analysis in Half in the Bag, while the Plinkett reviews have devolved into endless nitpicking and little meat on the bones, like the HitB episodes are meant for regular viewers and the Plinkett ones are meant for non-regulars who just see the Plinkett name and want to see a movie torn apart, whether it warrants it or not. (Note: I haven't watched this one yet, so not commenting on that yet) |
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Post by prettynami on May 18, 2020 22:35:21 GMT -5
I loved the fake storyboards they have in the review. Hahaha.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 6:25:14 GMT -5
I loved the fake storyboards they have in the review. Hahaha. Art by Freddie Williams II, who's a friend of RLM. They shared a laugh, and a glass of wine. |
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Post by HMARK Center on May 19, 2020 10:40:39 GMT -5
Watching the review and...yeah, there's just way too much "why not just do x instead of y" stuff that doesn't really get into why narrative choices were bad, when the answer to a lot of choices is "this is a dramatic narrative medium, so you write what will create drama." Plothole gazing just...I can't care about that, it's a tired way to review media. Feels too much like the ridiculous "there are objective ways to review media!" schtick, which has always been nonsense, while lacking the comedy that made the original Star Wars prequel reviews work.
That said, that doesn't mean the show looks good to me; the key takeaway that I think does work in the Plinkett review is that "you told us we'd be getting Picard, that we'd be getting something that feels like The Next Generation, and you, uh...didn't." Hard to blame fans for being disappointed with that. And the constant "the end of the story has to be a potential GALAXY DESTROYING THREAT, because God forbid we get stories that don't end in gigantic battles or big blue space lasers, or blah blah blah" drumbeat of shows and movies like this is just exhausting and, yeah, not exactly what people associate with Star Trek.
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Post by Deleted on May 19, 2020 10:55:01 GMT -5
I’m so f***ing hyped. Haven’t seen any of Picard. None. But I’ve been followed by their re:views of it and it’s made me (for the first time in my life) want to actually watch old Star Trek. (I’ve only watched ST: the movie, wrath of khan and the Kelvin flicks) A few years ago I compiled a few different lists of the best episodes of TOS and TNG, and then did a "best of" in chronological order like bands do with greatest hits albums. Man, that was some good stuff. I wish I had more time on my hands to actually watch every series all the way through, but I just don't have the time. I highly recommend doing like I did and just watching the best episodes. It got me more than caught up enough to follow Picard, which was fantastic. |
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Fade
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Post by Fade on May 19, 2020 11:30:13 GMT -5
I’m so f***ing hyped. Haven’t seen any of Picard. None. But I’ve been followed by their re:views of it and it’s made me (for the first time in my life) want to actually watch old Star Trek. (I’ve only watched ST: the movie, wrath of khan and the Kelvin flicks) A few years ago I compiled a few different lists of the best episodes of TOS and TNG, and then did a "best of" in chronological order like bands do with greatest hits albums. Man, that was some good stuff. I wish I had more time on my hands to actually watch every series all the way through, but I just don't have the time. I highly recommend doing like I did and just watching the best episodes. It got me more than caught up enough to follow Picard, which was fantastic. It seems like so much (and I really ain’t a binger) but I’m very tempted to. I’ve always been a Star Wars cat despite a lot of older figures trying to get me into Star Trek and I was always like “ew! That’s lame! I like emotion and action! I like Star Wars!”. And ironically now, watching Mike go through grief with Star Trek adapting those characteristics, while reminiscing of old Star Trek and bringing up traits like humanism, prosperity, the struggle between logic and emotion and an optimistic future has me pining for it. That all sounds dope. Don’t know if that means I’m getting older or what. I’m going to start looking for DVD collections and, god-help-me, try to go in order. |
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Post by BorneAgain on May 19, 2020 12:11:56 GMT -5
Trek is definitely worth going through.
TOS is probably the trickiest to adjust to watching for the first time, given the vastly different aesthetics, pace, and direction of late 60s science fiction. It does do comedy really well and unlike virtually every other series, nails its first season.
TNG season 3-7 has a great balance between comfortable episodic stories and subtler plot/character arcs. Characters do change but you can just plop down and watch any of the latter 2 thirds of the show without feeling too lost. The first two seasons (especially the first) are... rough. Its a show that really needed some time to find its footing and the attempts to ape the style of the 60s show early on just don't work.
DS9 is a love it or hate it series. With a more fixed setting and increasing serialization, its probably the one series (pre-Discovery/Picard) that feels the most modern in its sensibilities while still feeling quintessentially Trek in so many ways. Whether certain decisions land, its definitely the one that took the most risks with its storytelling and characters.
Voyager is like DS9 as well in that its also a bit divisive, though its more related to the risks and directions the show didn't take that often splits the fans. Speaking for myself its not a bad show as much as one that doesn't really live up to its potential, though there is a certain safeness to it that makes it easier to just watch random episodes of than Deep Space 9.
Enterprise is probably the hardest to judge because it almost feels like a couple of different shows depending on which seasons you're looking at, to the point where whether or not its better than something like Voyager in many fan's minds comes down to which era of the series you're talking about. Definitely a case where a retool/s significantly changed what it was for better or for worse.
The Trek films are so up and down that each new entry is essentially a dice roll in regards to quality. You'll have genuinely great movies that feel so true to the spirit of the franchise followed by stinkers that have you wondering how they got made. Consistent they are not.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 19, 2020 12:40:59 GMT -5
TOS, TNG, DS9 and the first six movies. That's Trek at its best. TAS is worth a watch as a curiosity. Voyager has a few decent episodes here and there but for the most part the rest of Trek can be skipped.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 19, 2020 12:48:19 GMT -5
That said, that doesn't mean the show looks good to me; the key takeaway that I think does work in the Plinkett review is that "you told us we'd be getting Picard, that we'd be getting something that feels like The Next Generation, and you, uh...didn't." Hard to blame fans for being disappointed with that. The thing is, we were never told we were getting something that feels like TNG. Patrick Stewart was very up front about that, going on record as saying that he had no interest in returning for TNG 2.0, from the very beginning where he turned down such a pitch, right up to the press tour for the show's premiere. |
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Post by Hit Girl on May 19, 2020 13:22:11 GMT -5
The world of TNG was worse than today.
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Post by HMARK Center on May 19, 2020 14:32:31 GMT -5
That said, that doesn't mean the show looks good to me; the key takeaway that I think does work in the Plinkett review is that "you told us we'd be getting Picard, that we'd be getting something that feels like The Next Generation, and you, uh...didn't." Hard to blame fans for being disappointed with that. The thing is, we were never told we were getting something that feels like TNG. Patrick Stewart was very up front about that, going on record as saying that he had no interest in returning for TNG 2.0, from the very beginning where he turned down such a pitch, right up to the press tour for the show's premiere. To be fair there were other articles quoting some of the writers/producers saying things like this wouldn't be an action heavy series like Discovery, or that it'd be much more of a character-driven thing, etc., which seemed to indicate something more contemplative and deliberate. And I guess it just seems odd to even want to bring Stewart and so many other old characters and actors back if the idea is that you're essentially setting things in a new universe with an entirely different approach. That said, those complaints are still personal complaints, not structural or really analytical ones, which is, again, the problem I feel like the latter Plinkett videos have run into. |
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Post by Rumble McSkirmish on May 19, 2020 23:06:38 GMT -5
I'm one of those people that is convinced that this was originally written as a Mass Effect TV series, but they couldn't secure the rights from EA.
So they took out Commander Shepard et al and copy pasted in Star Trek characters instead.
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Post by The Captain on May 19, 2020 23:13:55 GMT -5
First Contact is also a really fun movie and not only is it easily the best of the TNG movies, but really the only TNG movie I'd outright call great. It's up there with The Voyage Home, Wrath of Khan, and Undiscovered Country.
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