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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 8, 2022 14:48:08 GMT -5
I just hope that if it is the Enterprise F, it's the Odyssey class from STO. I really like the design of that ship.  As long as Worf is captain, I'll be happy either way. Especially given how long Michael Dorn has been publicly pushing for a return. |
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Post by Zombie Mod on Mar 8, 2022 15:38:06 GMT -5
i still would have liked a quick Q cameo in Enterprise, *Q flash* "wrong Enterprise. sorry!" *Q flash*
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 8, 2022 17:09:01 GMT -5
I personally felt it passed muster, especially in the face of all the subsequent changes they made to the Borg. The Borg need a focal character to really work. Even prior to First Contact they usually had some character involved to drive the narrative – Picard/Locutus, Lore, Hugh etc. The addition of the Queen really made the most sense, and Alice Krige did an amazing job. Having a focal character is great, but I've never been in favour of a leader as such. Especially when you're establishing a character as THE queen, so then them coming back has to be explained. Maybe have them as something the cube "makes" to express it's consciousness, so it's a character unique to that situation. I always found the giant faceless voice far more terrifying, maybe make the collective take over the body of 1 Borg as a spokesperson at a time. Could have had a scene where the crew cut down Borg after Borg, but the voice just changes to a different one instantly so their speach is unbroken... I think that'd be pretty cool. Would need to think of a different ending that "kill this one character to win" but I like that too, makes it more interesting. As for Q in a movie, well people forget how mainstream Star Trek was, and them v a Godlike entity was a well known trope so people would have bought it. Hell, it's easier to explain than the probe in Star Trek 4 Plus some of Q's best work was as a trickster who was an antagonistic ally, have him recruit the crew to help him with something, or end up on their side as an untrustworthy guide to some galaxy threatening threat he can't directly oppose. |
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Post by The Captain on Mar 8, 2022 17:14:17 GMT -5
Voyager established that there are multiple queens, at least, as opposed to the entire Collective's existence relying on a single entity. Probably one of the few things Voyager did with the Borg that actually worked out.
I've also never really seen Q as a villain past the first season of TNG where he definitely came off as more antagonistic. He settled into a role of a trickster god who, in his own way, helped the characters learn something about themselves or sorta point them in the right direction. Like a lot of people blame Q for the Federation's first contact with the Borg, but the Borg were already attacking whole colonies along the Neutral Zone. If anything, Q helped them prepare as much as they could for a Borg incursion.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 8, 2022 17:38:20 GMT -5
Having a focal character is great, but I've never been in favour of a leader as such. Especially when you're establishing a character as THE queen, so then them coming back has to be explained. Maybe have them as something the cube "makes" to express it's consciousness, so it's a character unique to that situation. I always found the giant faceless voice far more terrifying, maybe make the collective take over the body of 1 Borg as a spokesperson at a time. Could have had a scene where the crew cut down Borg after Borg, but the voice just changes to a different one instantly so their speach is unbroken... I think that'd be pretty cool. Would need to think of a different ending that "kill this one character to win" but I like that too, makes it more interesting. I agree. The Borg are definitely scarier without a leader, more analogous to a virus or disease. Still, it's hard to knock First Contact too much, given its standing as one of the best Star Trek movies. At the very least, any Q story would have been a far better premise for a movie than the morality play that was Insurrection. Insurrection is a perfectly fine mid-season two-part TNG episode, but a terrible choice for a movie, while Nemesis would have just been better off never existing, there are no redeeming features to that mess. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 8, 2022 17:51:38 GMT -5
I've also never really seen Q as a villain past the first season of TNG where he definitely came off as more antagonistic. He settled into a role of a trickster god who, in his own way, helped the characters learn something about themselves or sorta point them in the right direction. Like a lot of people blame Q for the Federation's first contact with the Borg, but the Borg were already attacking whole colonies along the Neutral Zone. If anything, Q helped them prepare as much as they could for a Borg incursion. Yeah, Q is an out-and-out antagonist when they first meet, but it's clear that he's won over pretty quickly. The rest of their interactions he acts as something of a parental figure nudging humanity in the right direction while pissing Picard off for his own amusement. Hell, he's positively chummy with Janeway. Sisko... less so. |
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
The Ultimate Arbiter of Right And Wrong
Spent half my life here, God help me
Posts: 15,534
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Mar 8, 2022 17:57:48 GMT -5
I've also never really seen Q as a villain past the first season of TNG where he definitely came off as more antagonistic. He settled into a role of a trickster god who, in his own way, helped the characters learn something about themselves or sorta point them in the right direction. Like a lot of people blame Q for the Federation's first contact with the Borg, but the Borg were already attacking whole colonies along the Neutral Zone. If anything, Q helped them prepare as much as they could for a Borg incursion. Yeah, Q is an out-and-out antagonist when they first meet, but it's clear that he's won over pretty quickly. The rest of their interactions he acts as something of a parental figure nudging humanity in the right direction while pissing Picard off for his own amusement. Hell, he's positively chummy with Janeway. Sisko... less so. If this had all been happening 20 years later, they'd have tied Ben Sisko being part Prophet, and the Pah Wraiths etc into some kind of higher plane with Q, also explaining how he could get away with punching Q. |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Mar 8, 2022 18:06:59 GMT -5
Yeah, Q is an out-and-out antagonist when they first meet, but it's clear that he's won over pretty quickly. The rest of their interactions he acts as something of a parental figure nudging humanity in the right direction while pissing Picard off for his own amusement. Hell, he's positively chummy with Janeway. Sisko... less so. If this had all been happening 20 years later, they'd have tied Ben Sisko being part Prophet, and the Pah Wraiths etc into some kind of higher plane with Q, also explaining how he could get away with punching Q. I never thought of the implications of Sisko being part Prophet when he interacted with Q. Of course the show didn't either at the time. I'm fascinated where the Q and the Prophets sit in relation to each other. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 8, 2022 18:22:53 GMT -5
I never thought of the implications of Sisko being part Prophet when he interacted with Q. Of course the show didn't either at the time. I'm fascinated where the Q and the Prophets sit in relation to each other. Similarly... I'd love some further exploration of this. |
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Mar 8, 2022 18:25:02 GMT -5
I never thought of the implications of Sisko being part Prophet when he interacted with Q. Of course the show didn't either at the time. I'm fascinated where the Q and the Prophets sit in relation to each other. Similarly... I'd love some further exploration of this. That was such an awesome interaction that gave us just enough to make us wonder, and furthered Guinan's mystique. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 8, 2022 18:28:06 GMT -5
That was such an awesome interaction that gave us just enough to make us wonder, and furthered Guinan's mystique. On the one hand I love that they never addressed it again, as it never needed to be, but on the other both Q and Guinan are such great characters it will forever feel like a missed opportunity. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 8, 2022 18:37:14 GMT -5
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 9, 2022 1:41:15 GMT -5
So...
• Sulu captained the Excelsior until both he and the ship were retired
• Uhura was given command of her own ship after Undiscovered Country (and was Picard's first captain)
• The Enterprise-D's saucer section was salvaged and sent to Starfleet Museum
• Voyager was immediately retired upon returning to Earth
I love it when Trek puts little snippets of information into shows.
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,350 
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 9, 2022 7:16:42 GMT -5
I like that they built a continuation for Uhura (and confirmed her first name in this timeline) for that. Can also see some writers of Star Trek novels making a series about her as a captain, maybe show her reaction to the events at the start of "Generations" and such.
Now out of the core TOS crew the only one we need to know what happened is Chekov...
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 10, 2022 15:23:58 GMT -5
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Post by Larryhausen on Mar 10, 2022 19:09:53 GMT -5
So... • Sulu captained the Excelsior until both he and the ship were retired • Uhura was given command of her own ship after Undiscovered Country (and was Picard's first captain) • The Enterprise-D's saucer section was salvaged and sent to Starfleet Museum • Voyager was immediately retired upon returning to Earth I love it when Trek puts little snippets of information into shows. Id really love to see the size of that Fleet Museum. |
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Post by The Captain on Mar 10, 2022 19:33:53 GMT -5
Shit, I'd love to go to a real life Starfleet Museum. Though a virtual version on VR platforms would probably be a lot more feasible lol.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 10, 2022 19:41:50 GMT -5
Id really love to see the size of that Fleet Museum. IIRC, it has the NX-01 and NCC-1701-A Enterprises there, plus now the D's saucer. The Phoenix and Stargazer, too, and – presumably – Voyager once the Borg and future tech had been removed. Assuming that only covers a small part of the museum itself, you'd probably need something comparable to the size of a national park. The museum was actually planned to feature on-screen in the TNG finale. The aged Picard, Geordi, and Data were going to take a tour with the intention of commandeering the mothballed Enterprise-D, only for Admiral Riker to stop them before offering his help. Unsurprisingly it was cut at the script stage for budgetary reasons. |
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CMWaters
Ozymandius
Rolled a Seven, Beat the Ads.
Bald and busy
Posts: 63,350
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Post by CMWaters on Mar 10, 2022 19:44:20 GMT -5
So... • Sulu captained the Excelsior until both he and the ship were retired • Uhura was given command of her own ship after Undiscovered Country (and was Picard's first captain) • The Enterprise-D's saucer section was salvaged and sent to Starfleet Museum • Voyager was immediately retired upon returning to Earth I love it when Trek puts little snippets of information into shows. Id really love to see the size of that Fleet Museum. They never say it's on Earth (could be assumed it is but who knows), but I could see if it has to be big enough it being on a whole different planet. I mean, I'm sure Mars was terraformed and was pretty much a walk down the street considering transportation in 2401. If not there, possibly an abandoned section of Earth that was messed up in World War III. EDIT: Forgot the Mars destruction stuff from Season 1. So...Earth or the Moon are possible. |
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Mar 10, 2022 19:53:08 GMT -5
They never say it's on Earth (could be assumed it is but who knows), but I could see if it has to be big enough it being on a whole different planet. I mean, I'm sure Mars was terraformed and was pretty much a walk down the street considering transportation in 2401. If not there, possibly an abandoned section of Earth that was messed up in World War III. In some of the expanded universe novels it's generally listed as being in San Fransisco, and in the Voyager finale the alternate future places it at the Presido of San Fransisco. |
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