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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 3, 2018 19:26:00 GMT -5
Michael Cole isn't terrible at all, and generally speaking, wrestling fans put way too much stock on who's on commentary. Very minimal influence on the overall product imo. Without Vince yelling at his ear, Cole is a decent announcer. He and Mick Foley were calling Battle at Shea and it was awesome.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 3, 2018 19:32:07 GMT -5
Kento Miyahara is very good and super charismatic, but I don't think he's as good as Omega, AJ Styles, Ibushi or Okada quite yet.
I'm fine with John Cena's dropkick. It's about on par with the ones Bret Hart threw, but not as good as Okada's or Orton's. Their dropkicks are better because of leg strength. Orton is mostly thighs, and Okada was a sprinter, while Cena's got that big upper body.
Edge was more of a marketable personality than Christian, that's why he went on to be the main event mainstay. Both are great and Christian had fun matches, but I've always found Edge the more magnetic of the two.
I've never been a Joey Styles fan.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 3, 2018 19:34:29 GMT -5
Michael Cole isn't terrible at all, and generally speaking, wrestling fans put way too much stock on who's on commentary. Very minimal influence on the overall product imo. Without Vince yelling at his ear, Cole is a decent announcer. He and Mick Foley were calling Battle at Shea and it was awesome. Speaking of Mick he's a weird guy to categorize
Had the promo and character work to be at the top of the card but being a glorified stunt man is what kept him there
Wish Mick knew less was more earlier in his career
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 3, 2018 19:38:29 GMT -5
Without Vince yelling at his ear, Cole is a decent announcer. He and Mick Foley were calling Battle at Shea and it was awesome. Speaking of Mick he's a weird guy to categorize
Had the promo and character work to be at the top of the card but being a glorified stunt man is what kept him there
Wish Mick knew less was more earlier in his career
He admits that the only thing he was good at was bumping. He also got his first success at Dallas, and the fans there demanded violent action. Then in wcw, Sullivan essentially hired him for his elbow drop from the top rope onto the outside. It is what it is, he did the best he could with only being good at bumping and promos.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 3, 2018 19:40:12 GMT -5
Kento Miyahara is very good and super charismatic, but I don't think he's as good as Omega, AJ Styles, Ibushi or Okada quite yet. I'm fine with John Cena's dropkick. It's about on par with the ones Bret Hart threw, but not as good as Okada's or Orton's. Their dropkicks are better because of leg strength. Orton is mostly thighs, and Okada was a sprinter, while Cena's got that big upper body. Edge was more of a marketable personality than Christian, that's why he went on to be the main event mainstay. Both are great and Christian had fun matches, but I've always found Edge the more magnetic of the two. I've never been a Joey Styles fan. Edge was a guy you can have as a big time guy in WWE
Christian is a guy who can be big in TNA or his great ECW run. Basically i'm saying Christian is a guy I would trust to help build a base while Edge is a guy who I'd put on top to promote the base. Both guys are great and have their roles
Also yeah never been a fan of Joey Styles. He was a product of a time but he wouldn't be on my top 10 announcers list (PBP or Color combined)
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 3, 2018 19:50:46 GMT -5
Here’s my sacrilegious opinion....
The Bucks are NOT killing the business.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinion...even if I disagree with it...though.
That said, belittle them all you want, but those dudes (and Kenny) have done what they love...on their terms...gotten WAY over...and made a ton of money in the process.
And isn’t that the damn point of this business anyway?
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Sept 3, 2018 19:52:18 GMT -5
Michael Cole is generally a good announcer. When he's not being over-produced he can be really entertaining. Some of his calls during title matches, like Mankind winning his first WWE title or Bryan making Batista submit at Mania 30, are memorable as hell.
Vince McMahon was also a much better announcer than I gave him credit for. He wasn't as sports-like as Solie or JR, but he knew how to sell the story and his vision of the characters.
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Post by Crow Dust on Sept 3, 2018 20:08:57 GMT -5
That’s why I always roll my eyes at people saying New Japan is sooooo smart for not having Naito win the title at Wrestle Kingdom. At any moment a guy can be injured and gone for good. If he’s red hot and moving paper, f***ing put him over. Well the problem with Shibata at the end of the day was sadly he himself caused his career to be shortened with his in ring style but yes I agree I was hyped when it seemed like he was finally getting his chance to move up and prove he can be IWGP champ material and sadly that was the end all be all And to that I say he had already long proved he was champion material for the last two years by that point but NJPW much like ROH have no idea how to strike while the iron is hot any more.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 3, 2018 20:17:22 GMT -5
Well the problem with Shibata at the end of the day was sadly he himself caused his career to be shortened with his in ring style but yes I agree I was hyped when it seemed like he was finally getting his chance to move up and prove he can be IWGP champ material and sadly that was the end all be all And to that I say he had already long proved he was champion material for the last two years by that point but NJPW much like ROH have no idea how to strike while the iron is hot any more. While true, you still had basically saying this is Okada show to an extent and you had AJ there as well
In a sense you can say he was like Naito is now where they wanted him in a certain spot and he was killing it as the NEVER champ since you knew his matches would be intense. However, he should have transitioned up after his match with Ishii at WK
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Post by HMARK Center on Sept 3, 2018 20:24:08 GMT -5
Well the problem with Shibata at the end of the day was sadly he himself caused his career to be shortened with his in ring style but yes I agree I was hyped when it seemed like he was finally getting his chance to move up and prove he can be IWGP champ material and sadly that was the end all be all And to that I say he had already long proved he was champion material for the last two years by that point but NJPW much like ROH have no idea how to strike while the iron is hot any more. I really don't see it with the Shibata situation; the entire plan was a multi-year one with him precisely because they had to rebuild him in the eyes of the core audience in the first place for his "walking away". Each accolade he racked up was another step toward his full redemption with the NJPW audience and roster, especially once he won the tag belts with Goto and then moved onto the NEVER scene and showed he could carry a singles division. By the time he won the NJ Cup the crowd was rabid to see him break through, but it's rare that somebody wins the big one in the first shot and he was still primed to be alongside Okada and Naito at the top...but unfortunately we know what happened right afterward. They took a guy that a lot of people were skeptical about because of his flaking out in the past and got it to the point where people were dying to see him win it all; if he hadn't gotten injured I don't know if he'd be champion now since the story was Okada's big reign, but they seemed to succeed just fine in getting him back to the main event. The decision on Naito this year is still one that's more than fair to debate, I think, but I don't see it as much here.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 3, 2018 21:17:46 GMT -5
Edge was overrated.
I don’t think it’s a coincidence that he stayed on Smackdown, the b show, for the majority of his career. Guy was never that big of a star looking back at it.
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Dragonfly
Unicron
...is no Barry Windham.
Posts: 2,500
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Post by Dragonfly on Sept 3, 2018 21:27:17 GMT -5
- I will gladly take Jeff Jarrett, NWA champion (and all of the shenanigans it came with) over the reign of terror any day of the week. Why? Character booking.
HHH called himself "The King of Kings:" An arrogant bully who never lost.
JJ, meanwhile, booked himself to be worst human being alive. He was a totally incompetent, cowardly egomaniac who treated his entourage like shit and always won by the skin of his teeth.
- Lucha Underground takes itself way too seriously to be enjoyable.
- I like Delirious' ROH more than I ever liked Gabe's.
- Just because the WWE chooses to work other promotions doesn't mean they have a hand in their booking. If they did, Evolve wouldn't be so damn inaccessible to the normal fan, Progress wouldn't have deals with WXW and the NJPW-affiliated MCW and ICW wouldn't be so... Um... ICW.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Sept 3, 2018 21:44:45 GMT -5
Michael Cole isn't terrible at all, and generally speaking, wrestling fans put way too much stock on who's on commentary. Very minimal influence on the overall product imo. Without Vince yelling at his ear, Cole is a decent announcer. He and Mick Foley were calling Battle at Shea and it was awesome. The Beast in the East special from 2015 is also worth a viewing to hear Cole's actual skill in the booth.
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Post by topdawg on Sept 3, 2018 21:59:19 GMT -5
Finn Balor is the most boring, overrated wrestler I've ever seen.
Trish Stratus was not attractive.
If they were around in a different era, Cade & Murdoch could've been one of the greatest tag-teams ever.
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Gus Richlen: Ruffian
Patti Mayonnaise
Metal Maestro: Co-winner of the FAN Idol Throwdown!
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Post by Gus Richlen: Ruffian on Sept 3, 2018 22:15:08 GMT -5
WWE is never going to be able to get a homegrown guy over as the top guy anymore. Cena poisoned that well, Sheamus, Ryback and Reigns have all fallen victim to this, and I guarantee that Strowman is going to land on the same spot. Part of it for those four is booking, yes, but with indy guys getting more of the fan support once WWE signs them, it becomes more difficult to get a homegrown guy support even if the booking is good.
As an addition to that, Ryback was mediocre at best. Which is when everyone says Braun is going to end up like Ryback, I have to disagree because even though Braun isn't very good either, he's still better than Ryback and holds a crowd's attention better than Ryback.
Not every indy guy that WWE signs has to be a main event guy or a world champion.
WWE isn't going to depush Roman for a few years at least. If/when Triple H takes over, that will not change. Trips may book him smarter, maybe even give him the heel turn he needs so badly, but he's not getting depushed. Ironically, by that time fans will have found someone else to throw vitriol towards.
Kevin Dunn, for all his flaws, is still better than whoever is running the production at AAA. Seriously, they do a new camera angle every two seconds, with every third shot being of the crowd.
Okada's booking in NJPW is no better than what Reigns has gotten in WWE. Only difference is that NJPW actually commits to their guy.
The wrong person won every match at WM31.
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Post by thetower52 on Sept 3, 2018 22:31:15 GMT -5
Ric Flair is an overrated boring sack of shit
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Venti
Unicron
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Post by Venti on Sept 3, 2018 23:38:44 GMT -5
The only hall of fame Tammy Sytch belongs to is the alcohol of fame. She was an awful valet and manager. On the wall of shame?
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Post by Skull0mancer on Sept 4, 2018 0:00:46 GMT -5
I liked Stardust.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 0:33:04 GMT -5
LU is terrible. It's booking, it's style, it's announcing (oh jeez it's announcing is abysmal). It comes off as unbelievably self satisfied and smug.
Christian was average at best. Capable of decent matches, I remember 2 singles matches (ladder match vs Kaz and losing to Orton) from his entire career and if he wasn't being deluded E&C era heel, his promos were lame stand up routines that sounded like something a parent would do to embarrass their teenage kids. He lacked a decent look his whole career too. I don't think Edge gets nearly as far without Christian though. Edge was great but next to Christian he looked like a megastar.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 4, 2018 0:37:46 GMT -5
Disco Inferno and Buff Bagwell were underutilized talent and WCW could have done a lot more for them. Bagwell could have got over as a ME level babyface and they had a perfect chance to do it. The guy had his legs cut out from under himcso many times and it's odd because he was so so marketable. The same can be said but to a lesser extent for Disco and although I believe his place on the card was fine I just think he could have been used more and featured in more prominent angles. I'm not saying make him a winner but let him lose in title matches. Turning Bagwell heel after his neck injury is joint second on stupid things WCW did along with the Fingerpoke and letting Nash end Goldberg's streak. 1st is not having Sting obliterate Hogan at Starrcade.
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