Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 11, 2018 11:24:04 GMT -5
Bret’s idea for his WWE exit would’ve been more self fellation than anything Hogan pulled in his career. “I want to leave the company without losing with a big speech where I talk about how great a champion I was without any story or angle. I’m awesome and nobody beat me. The end.” Yea, Bret was as much a problem as HBK and Vince
Yes. he got screwed over worse in the end but my man it's as simple as dropping the belt to Shawn. You're not going to fight this man no more despite y'all differences because you won't be there
Yes, he had control but it also had to be reasonable
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 11, 2018 12:24:22 GMT -5
Bret’s idea for his WWE exit would’ve been more self fellation than anything Hogan pulled in his career. “I want to leave the company without losing with a big speech where I talk about how great a champion I was without any story or angle. I’m awesome and nobody beat me. The end.” Yea, Bret was as much a problem as HBK and Vince Yes. he got screwed over worse in the end but my man it's as simple as dropping the belt to Shawn. You're not going to fight this man no more despite y'all differences because you won't be there Yes, he had control but it also had to be reasonable
And if not dropping it to Shawn in Montreal was seen as unreasonable, Vince would have just stripped him of the title and said 'We have records of all the pitched ideas you rejected out of hand, enjoy spending the last few years of your earning peak locked in litigation.' He tried it with Brock to stop him competing when the MFL attempt fell through, he tied guys like Justin Credible in legal knots to make sure they couldn't go to WCW so has zero qualms about using the legal system to screw over talent.
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Post by rnrk supports BLM on Sept 11, 2018 12:49:12 GMT -5
Bret’s idea for his WWE exit would’ve been more self fellation than anything Hogan pulled in his career. “I want to leave the company without losing with a big speech where I talk about how great a champion I was without any story or angle. I’m awesome and nobody beat me. The end.” He never said he was unwilling to drop the title . He was unwilling to drop it to Shawn. Why is that so hard for Bret’s haters to get? Because he's literally on tape suggesting to Vince that the match goes to a double DQ and he vacates the title the next night? It's in his documentary. Every other reasonable solution Bret allegedly would've agreed to is after-the-fact speculation. And frankly, considering the only people Bret put over clean during his main event WWF run were his brother, his brother-in-law, and the guy he spent the next decade resenting and insisting only went over him due to backstage politicking, I have my doubts he was all that willing to compromise on this one.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 11, 2018 13:31:25 GMT -5
He never said he was unwilling to drop the title . He was unwilling to drop it to Shawn. Why is that so hard for Bret’s haters to get? Because he's literally on tape suggesting to Vince that the match goes to a double DQ and he vacates the title the next night? It's in his documentary. Every other reasonable solution Bret allegedly would've agreed to is after-the-fact speculation. And frankly, considering the only people Bret put over clean during his main event WWF run were his brother, his brother-in-law, and the guy he spent the next decade resenting and insisting only went over him due to backstage politicking, I have my doubts he was all that willing to compromise on this one. The WWF was never, ever a place known for face main eventers jobbing cleanly on a regular basis. Bret didn't, Shawn didn't, Diesel didn't, Hogan certainly didn't and the pattern continues to the present day. Hulk's loss to Andre? Crooked ref. Warrior's loss to Slaughter? Thanks Sherri. Hogan's loss to Taker? Ric Flair and Paul Bearer. Hart beat Diesel relatively clean on paper, it was made to look lke a fluke, winning by small package then he ate two jacknives post match so Diesel came put looking better thn the actual winner. Bret puts over Shawn, cleanly for the WWF title. Shawn loses to Sid after a camera shot.. I could go on. That's how Vince likes faces booked, he doesn't get the concept of underdogs, he has underdog champions who always win who are underdogs because he yells at commentators to say so.
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petef3
Don Corleone
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Post by petef3 on Sept 11, 2018 14:48:46 GMT -5
Also, as time goes by I wonder if Bret's "I'll just vacate the title" proposal was 100% serious on his part or a way of gaining negotiating leverage, the same way you always ask for way more than you're really looking for when you start salary negotiations.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 11, 2018 17:37:50 GMT -5
I don't really much hold it against the 50+ contingent for not being up with the post-modern standards (as far as locker room etiquette, kayfabe, general attitude) that the more current generation of wrestlers should be living up to.
If The Old Men (eg : Cornette) want to yell at clouds, I just don't have the energy to waste getting annoyed with them over it.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 11, 2018 18:47:27 GMT -5
I simply don't understand the fauning over PCO.
He was a decent-good worker at his peak, and looks still to be solid but the "high flying' stuff that some are raving about looks horrible.
Some have argued (entirely reasonably) that it doesn't matter because it's the spectacle of the thing and the 'holy bleep' factor of it, but you can see chunky old dudes hitting pointless, sloppy high spots on most small indies and they don't get praised. Genuinely passes me by.
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bob
Salacious Crumb
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
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Post by bob on Sept 11, 2018 18:59:43 GMT -5
Kerwin White was amazing...…….but I can see why others hated him
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 12, 2018 3:25:20 GMT -5
Kerwin White was amazing...…….but I can see why others hated him I liked him just for the fact that he was a parody of wwe director Kerwin Silfies. I appreciate his talent, but Jerry Lawler is overrated. He was good but not this legendary performer and one of the best of all time.
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Nikki Heyman
Fry's dog Seymour
EXTREEEEEME Pony Manager
✬ Believe In The Fight ✬
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Post by Nikki Heyman on Sept 12, 2018 3:32:18 GMT -5
Kerwin White was amazing...…….but I can see why others hated him It was a fresh idea and I was curious to see where it was going to go. I'd seen it at a couple of house shows before it came to tv and people were confused
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on Sept 12, 2018 4:08:14 GMT -5
I simply don't understand the fauning over PCO. He was a decent-good worker at his peak, and looks still to be solid but the "high flying' stuff that some are raving about looks horrible. Some have argued (entirely reasonably) that it doesn't matter because it's the spectacle of the thing and the 'holy bleep' factor of it, but you can see chunky old dudes hitting pointless, sloppy high spots on most small indies and they don't get praised. Genuinely passes me by. Not arguing with your opinion here but I think it’s like the appreciation for Terry Funk doing hardcore stuff and moonsaults at 50. People like comebacks. They like reinvention. They love the idea of wrestlers they know being around forever. PCO has tapped into that like Terry Funk once did but at a more indie level. Indie wrestling is the cool thing at the moment and PCO is kind of on tour so more people are connecting with him and his hype.
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thirteen3
Dennis Stamp
posted with a broken freakin neck keyboard
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Post by thirteen3 on Sept 12, 2018 5:15:12 GMT -5
I hated the PCO/WALTER match this year. Sloppy and boring.
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Post by chronocross on Sept 12, 2018 6:57:46 GMT -5
I had no problem with Goldberg losing to Nash at Starrcade the way he did, it took lots of interference and a tazer, if the endgame was to get the belt on Nash only, that would have worked for me.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,388
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 12, 2018 7:09:17 GMT -5
I don't think that finger-bending ("small joint manipulation") adds much to a match. I'm not saying that it wouldn't hurt, it's just kind of boring to watch.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Sept 12, 2018 7:59:42 GMT -5
I had no problem with Goldberg losing to Nash at Starrcade the way he did, it took lots of interference and a tazer, if the endgame was to get the belt on Nash only, that would have worked for me. Yeah, the problem was with the build up, the follow up and the fact it was Nash winning. The match itself was fine, Goldberg needed to lose, he couldn't win ever match forever that protected him as much as possible.
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Post by chronocross on Sept 12, 2018 8:09:52 GMT -5
I had no problem with Goldberg losing to Nash at Starrcade the way he did, it took lots of interference and a tazer, if the endgame was to get the belt on Nash only, that would have worked for me. Yeah, the problem was with the build up, the follow up and the fact it was Nash winning. The match itself was fine, Goldberg needed to lose, he couldn't win ever match forever that protected him as much as possible. While I liked both guys, I marked for Nash's title win at Starrcade and enjoyed the Wolfpac big time in 1998, I just hated the aftermath.
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Post by illiniman88 on Sept 12, 2018 10:29:01 GMT -5
NWO aged much better than DX
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Post by corndog on Sept 12, 2018 11:35:53 GMT -5
Kenny Omega is incredibly overrated.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 12, 2018 12:01:55 GMT -5
Kenny Omega is incredibly overrated. At the very least he's become "formula"
That doesn't mean his matches isn't good but in between moves he spams the V Trigger 300 times a match
If he ever went to WWE he'd be perfect because he has "Ace moves" that the crowd will react to but his transitions in between moves can be off
However, he's still a beast but I can see why people think he's overrated. He's 3rd behind Okada and Naito for sure in pecking order
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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You can either sink, swim, or be the captain....Long live the cheif
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 12, 2018 12:06:02 GMT -5
He never said he was unwilling to drop the title . He was unwilling to drop it to Shawn. Why is that so hard for Bret’s haters to get? Because he's literally on tape suggesting to Vince that the match goes to a double DQ and he vacates the title the next night? It's in his documentary. Every other reasonable solution Bret allegedly would've agreed to is after-the-fact speculation. And frankly, considering the only people Bret put over clean during his main event WWF run were his brother, his brother-in-law, and the guy he spent the next decade resenting and insisting only went over him due to backstage politicking, I have my doubts he was all that willing to compromise on this one. Yea, Bret's whole thing about wanting to go out with his head held high is more for himself than anything. No one said you couldn't drop the belt and then give your farewell speech the next night. You go to Vince and you tell him straight up I don't want no shenanigans I just want to say goodbye since I think I deserve that much
I see the other side of Vince and understand his paranoia as well. HBK and Bret were at each other's throat and you couldn't trust Bischoff to not pull a fast one. It could have been handled better from all sides in that scenario but as I said before Bret has to realize he played a hand in that as well
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