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Post by BRAINFADE on Sept 2, 2018 17:19:36 GMT -5
To continue with the All In takes- even though I understand the historical implications of the show, and as much as I'm happy it succeeded and think it's great for wrestling, I have had (and still have) zero interest in watching the show since the day it was announced.
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ERON
Hank Scorpio
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Post by ERON on Sept 2, 2018 17:21:40 GMT -5
The nWo absolutely should NOT have ended after Starrcade '97. Hogan/nWo Hollywood vs. Nash/nWo Wolfpac should have been the next step after Hogan lost to Sting. Only after that feud ended should the black-and-white nWo have been dissolved. The Wolfpac could have continued a little longer as Nash's entourage.
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Allie Kitsune
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Always Feelin' Foxy.
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Sept 2, 2018 17:32:31 GMT -5
I think it'll be Wrestle Kingdom in 2020- it falls on a Saturday that year, and I have a feeling that New Japan have an eye on that as the time they can legitimately sell out the Dome. The best main event they can do for that is Okada vs. Naito, with Naito looking to finally bury his biggest demon and beat Okada in the Dome. Is it a risk to wait that long? Absolutely. There is a very real chance that Naito could cool off by then. They're putting a lot of faith in Naito to stay as over as he currently is. But I honestly believe he will. Especially with the Japanese audience, who are traditionally a lot more patient and loyal than us western fans. In terms of beating Okada at WK? Sure I can see it then He really only has two goals left. Win the IWGP title cleanly from whoever is champ and beat Okada at WK
I think he wins the title from someone next year whether it be Omega or Tanahashi but his time is coming at some point. They finally let Omega have his moment this year and I expect the same for Naito at some point. I don't see him cooling him off especially when he's still popular after his down year but you run a big risk if you have him still doing nothing next year as well
As long as he gets his Moment in the Sun, I'll be good. My frustration with WK was mostly how it looked like it was being set up as "The night that LIJ (aside from Bushi) Sweeps and Takes it All". The Atmosphere just made it feel like it was their night, and even though EVIL/SANADA won, then Hiromu and Naito lost in the end.
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Post by GuyOfOwnage on Sept 2, 2018 17:46:24 GMT -5
I find Kenny Omega to be a great worker, just not #1 in the entire world. I really feel like he's a victim of his own hype. It's not his fault, it's just that no worker in the world, past or present, could ascend to how much people have hyped this guy up as the greatest thing to ever happen to professional wrestling. The Blindfold Match at WM7 is actually very good. I don't care how much people dump on the match, it was OVER with the live audience, which should be the only thing that matters in that situation.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 2, 2018 18:06:21 GMT -5
Sable is not a hall of famer. She couldn’t wrestle and she couldn’t talk. She only got reactions because she was attractive, being attractive is not a skill set.
JJ Dillon is one of the worst managers of all time and he wasn’t needed in the horsemen. To quote Mick Foley, “JJ f***ing Dillon brought the charisma and sizzle of a UPS truck”.
If you want to get me on a Jim Cornette rant, show me an inter gender match, I think they’re despicable and hurt the business. If I was a wrestler and the promoter asked me to sell for someone much more smaller than me, I would thank him for the opportunity and quit on the spot. Chyna I had no problem with, because she was tall and big enough that she was believable.
Cornette did ok when trying to get rid of Grizzly Redwood, he was an embarrassment for ROH.
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Post by DASH 243✅ on Sept 2, 2018 18:09:06 GMT -5
roddy piper was terrible
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 2, 2018 18:12:59 GMT -5
Sadly I kinda agree. Most of his matches were godawful, about 95% of his matches sucked.
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Post by Larryhausen on Sept 2, 2018 18:17:58 GMT -5
All In was a self indulgent mess where a bunch of guys who the mainstream wrestling audience don't care about in the slightest put themselves over in front of a bunch of people who they're already over with in storylines and angles based around a YouTube series that barely anyone in the grand scheme of things watches. They're not taking over, they're not great businessmen and the whole thing was a load of nothing. People comparing it to the first Nitro or other monumental moments in wrestling couldn't be further from the truth and the WWE do not and will never care. Absolutely no offense intended, but a bunch of guys took a niche product that they built up themselves, and sold 10,000 tickets, meet and greets, and ppv buys to the audience they have, and probably made a proverbial shit ton of money from it. How does that make them not good businessmen?
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Post by thetower52 on Sept 2, 2018 18:18:53 GMT -5
I love new jack.
I also have a weird fasnation with death match wrestling
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on Sept 2, 2018 18:41:17 GMT -5
All In was a self indulgent mess where a bunch of guys who the mainstream wrestling audience don't care about in the slightest put themselves over in front of a bunch of people who they're already over with in storylines and angles based around a YouTube series that barely anyone in the grand scheme of things watches. They're not taking over, they're not great businessmen and the whole thing was a load of nothing. People comparing it to the first Nitro or other monumental moments in wrestling couldn't be further from the truth and the WWE do not and will never care. Absolutely no offense intended, but a bunch of guys took a niche product that they built up themselves, and sold 10,000 tickets, meet and greets, and ppv buys to the audience they have, and probably made a proverbial shit ton of money from it. How does that make them not good businessmen? Because the OP you quoted doesn’t like the Jacksons or Cody (or, if Inhad to guess Kenny, Ibushi, Scurll, etc) and therefore they aren’t good at anything up to and including business even though the numbers and facts would prove that wrong. But that’s just my guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 2, 2018 18:48:00 GMT -5
I love new jack. I also have a weird fasnation with death match wrestling I love Deathmatch wrestling when it makes sense, what bothers me is when they follow something great with something inferior. Thumbtack Jack used syringes on Masada, even pierced through his cheeks, and that wasn’t even the finish lol.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Sept 2, 2018 18:51:19 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes does more for me than Omega, though I have warmed up to Omega over time. Cody just has presentation and character work down pat.
Speaking of, Cody Rhodes pulled Bullet Club out of a major slump when he joined, after a lot of underwhelming shit, like Adam Cole's complete mismatch tenure.
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Post by thetower52 on Sept 2, 2018 18:55:02 GMT -5
All in felt like Cody and the bucks just jerking themselves off for a few hours
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Post by mrtumoursmisery on Sept 2, 2018 19:18:46 GMT -5
Owen vs. Shawn Michaels, In Your House February 96 Owen vs. 123 Kid, King of the Ring 94 Owen vs. British Bulldog, European Tournament Final, Raw 1997 Owen vs razor KOTR 1994 Owen vs Bulldog for the European title raw 1997 I would argue that Bret had superior matches with every single one of those wrestlers, and that Owen himself had his best match with Bret. Not to mention Bret's classic matches with Diesel, Roddy Piper, Mr. Perfect, and an absolutely iconic match with Steve Austin. Owen's in-ring storytelling was not on par with The Hitman. As far as promos and character are concerned, Bret's delivery on the mic might've been awkward at times. But, I always got the sense that he believed 100% in the character that he was playing. Even if the words came out awkwardly sometimes, the emotion behind the words always seemed real. He was a great babyface hero, and he was a great heel during his anti-USA phase. Owen didn't have any character moments that were as great and genuine as Bret's "This is bullsh*t!" outburst, for example. But, hey, it's all a matter of opinion.
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Post by Larryhausen on Sept 2, 2018 19:40:24 GMT -5
Absolutely no offense intended, but a bunch of guys took a niche product that they built up themselves, and sold 10,000 tickets, meet and greets, and ppv buys to the audience they have, and probably made a proverbial shit ton of money from it. How does that make them not good businessmen? Because the OP you quoted doesn’t like the Jacksons or Cody (or, if Inhad to guess Kenny, Ibushi, Scurll, etc) and therefore they aren’t good at anything up to and including business even though the numbers and facts would prove that wrong. But that’s just my guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ I'm not trying to insult the OP. I completely understand not liking The Bucks, Cody, Kenny, etc etc. I get not liking The idea of All In, or straight up not enjoying the show. It's a matter of opinion. But to say these guys aren't good businessmen is just factually wrong.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Sept 2, 2018 19:51:08 GMT -5
I feel that people tend praise the Indys/Japan primarily because they want to stick it to the establishment of WWE, even though WWE will always be the better all around product.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 2, 2018 19:52:38 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes does more for me than Omega, though I have warmed up to Omega over time. Cody just has presentation and character work down pat. Speaking of, Cody Rhodes pulled Bullet Club out of a major slump when he joined, after a lot of underwhelming shit, like Adam Cole's complete mismatch tenure. The big problem with the Cole run was he was the leader in America so it never really had any impact behind it especially when the big guys were in Japan and when Adam goes over he's treated like the little brother
Cody has been able to play both sides and has been smart in his presentation to the point where he really could be THE leader of Bullet Club instead of Kenny
On that note about Cody, I like everything about him except his matches. Feel like if/when he ever goes back to WWE he can no doubt main event because his stalling style works better there and if he can keep the same boss type presentation he's golden
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 2, 2018 20:02:56 GMT -5
The young bucks have never had an original idea in their lives, everything they’ve ever done is ripping off something that worked in the past, left to their own devices and without any gimmick to steal from, they fail just like they did in tna. They can’t come up with anything original.
I think that if they ever join the wwe and have to come up with original stuff for their gimmicks, they’ll suffer a slow miserable death, kinda like what Anderson and Gallows are experiencing.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Sept 2, 2018 20:07:05 GMT -5
Cody Rhodes does more for me than Omega, though I have warmed up to Omega over time. Cody just has presentation and character work down pat. Speaking of, Cody Rhodes pulled Bullet Club out of a major slump when he joined, after a lot of underwhelming shit, like Adam Cole's complete mismatch tenure. The big problem with the Cole run was he was the leader in America so it never really had any impact behind it especially when the big guys were in Japan and when Adam goes over he's treated like the little brother
Cody has been able to play both sides and has been smart in his presentation to the point where he really could be THE leader of Bullet Club instead of Kenny
On that note about Cody, I like everything about him except his matches. Feel like if/when he ever goes back to WWE he can no doubt main event because his stalling style works better there and if he can keep the same boss type presentation he's golden
He will never be a main eventer in the wwe. He’s too small and not charismatic enough for the wwe audience. He tried a million diferent characters and ideas, still the vast majority of the fans didn’t care and that’s why he never moved past the mid card scene. If Dusty was alive he would tell his son, “Nah babeh that’s for somebody else, you’re no star.”
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Sept 2, 2018 20:10:10 GMT -5
The big problem with the Cole run was he was the leader in America so it never really had any impact behind it especially when the big guys were in Japan and when Adam goes over he's treated like the little brother
Cody has been able to play both sides and has been smart in his presentation to the point where he really could be THE leader of Bullet Club instead of Kenny
On that note about Cody, I like everything about him except his matches. Feel like if/when he ever goes back to WWE he can no doubt main event because his stalling style works better there and if he can keep the same boss type presentation he's golden
He will never be a main eventer in the wwe. He’s too small and not charismatic enough for the wwe audience. He tried a million diferent characters and ideas, still the vast majority of the fans didn’t care and that’s why he never moved past the mid card scene. If Dusty was alive he would tell his son, “Nah babeh that’s for somebody else, you’re no star.” That’s your opinion just like this is mine While I’m not a big fan of Cody’s ring work, he’s no doubt showed on the indies he has star qualities in how he carries himself. He had the ability to jump up in the main event in WWE but just never got over that threshold There’s nothing wrong with him coming back to be a mid carder but I believe he can jump up as he’s shown he can carry himself like a star around the world which holds weight
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