Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 1:22:03 GMT -5
Christian is the major one for me.
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Eunös ✈
Dalek
Duck Feet Expert
Tolerated, just not practically liked.
Posts: 59,234
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Post by Eunös ✈ on Jan 23, 2019 4:53:49 GMT -5
Chris Masters.
He had the look but was not very good during his first stint on WWE.. Despite being heavily pushed with the masterlock challenge he never even won a title.
I felt he was better during his 2nd stint in WWE but they did less with him.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 23, 2019 6:04:38 GMT -5
as others have said before, Matt Morgan is a jacked legit seven footer with a great look whose waiting for a time when that's all that matters.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 23, 2019 7:24:17 GMT -5
Controversial one maybe, but Curt Hennig. Phenomenal worker when he gave a damn, decent promo, charismatic, and yet never once did I feel he should be in the world title hunt.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 23, 2019 7:34:37 GMT -5
"It factor" doesn't... really mean anything, does it? “It” means charisma. And charisma is a skill that one develops. So many superstars started out a little on the bland side when they debut, not having the electricity they’d develop later. Early Ric Flair from the 70s and the Ric we all know are like night and day. Oh- I know, Shinsuke Nakamura. Perfect example of someone who started out with a straight laced persona, and always had hints of charisma, but didn’t outwardly project “it” before his transition to King of Strong Style.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,336
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 23, 2019 10:07:39 GMT -5
"It factor" doesn't... really mean anything, does it? “It” means charisma. And charisma is a skill that one develops. So many superstars started out a little on the bland side when they debut, not having the electricity they’d develop later. Early Ric Flair from the 70s and the Ric we all know are like night and day. Oh- I know, Shinsuke Nakamura. Perfect example of someone who started out with a straight laced persona, and always had hints of charisma, but didn’t outwardly project “it” before his transition to King of Strong Style. I don't think so. Charisma is one's innate likability. Something inborn that just draws people to you. It's not really something you can train in a person. You might be able to sort of train them to FAKE it in some ways, but in the end it'll always be caught on to as artificial.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,330
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 23, 2019 10:28:30 GMT -5
I'll go with somebody current: Drew
He looks like a world beater at first glance and can really wrestle like a champ... but holy shit you hand him a mic and you quickly realize he's a worse version of Ziggler. Then you pair them together and that comparison becomes even more crystal clear. After seeing more of his matches lately I'm not sure the guy understands how to "tell a story" in the ring either. He just... well, for lack of a better explanation: He just does a bunch of moves and puts on an angry face. That's it. He definitely does not have IT.
Doesn't mean he can't improve. But he ain't there by a long shot right now.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 23, 2019 10:35:00 GMT -5
If they don't have "it" how can they be world champion material? Isn't that an oxymoron?
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,330
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Post by Push R Truth on Jan 23, 2019 10:46:04 GMT -5
If they don't have "it" how can they be world champion material? Isn't that an oxymoron? I'd argue because IT is nebulous and you normally don't have that answer to what IT is until after a guy is exposed. It's like love. You don't always know what it is until it's there and/or gone.
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Ben Wyatt
Crow T. Robot
Are You Gonna Go My Way?
I don't get it. At all. It's kind of a small horse, I mean what am I missing? Am I crazy?
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Jan 23, 2019 11:31:24 GMT -5
Jack Swagger. Good look, good size, great athlete but did not have 'it'. Swagger is one of those cases that it's both his and creative's fault. Outside of his ECW title run, they just never seemed to know what to do with him
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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You can either sink, swim, or be the captain....Long live the cheif
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 23, 2019 12:33:39 GMT -5
If they don't have "it" how can they be world champion material? Isn't that an oxymoron? Not really. You can be world champ and not have “IT” as I said with my Jinder example. “It” can almost be said as a sticking point, see Jeff Hardy who despite all his trials and tribulations can jump in the world title picture today with no problem. The fans just connect with him
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 23, 2019 12:45:08 GMT -5
“It” means charisma. And charisma is a skill that one develops. So many superstars started out a little on the bland side when they debut, not having the electricity they’d develop later. Early Ric Flair from the 70s and the Ric we all know are like night and day. Oh- I know, Shinsuke Nakamura. Perfect example of someone who started out with a straight laced persona, and always had hints of charisma, but didn’t outwardly project “it” before his transition to King of Strong Style. I don't think so. Charisma is one's innate likability. Something inborn that just draws people to you. It's not really something you can train in a person. You might be able to sort of train them to FAKE it in some ways, but in the end it'll always be caught on to as artificial. Being naturally charming and likable is of course going to give any young wrestler an advantage with crowds when they start, I’ll agree with that. But I link “it” with charisma because a wrestler or performer can train themselves to become more confident and expressive, more dynamic and emotional with their speech and body language/poise. The Rock is another example alongside Nakamura who started out with a bit of spark to him when he debuted, and gradually evolved into someone who commands the attention of the room. I think AJ Styles is leaps and bounds more captivating a personality from his early TNA years.
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El Pollo Guerrera
Grimlock
His name has chicken in it, and he is good at makin' .gifs, so that's cool.
Status: Runner
Posts: 14,800
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Post by El Pollo Guerrera on Jan 23, 2019 13:24:01 GMT -5
Don't know if anyone's mentioned him yet, but Barrett.
It's nice that the WWE keeps the IC and US titles around as a way to test the "it-factor" of their wrestlers. Those with "it" move up and the "it-less" fall to the side.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Jan 23, 2019 13:25:32 GMT -5
If they don't have "it" how can they be world champion material? Isn't that an oxymoron? Not really. You can be world champ and not have “IT” as I said with my Jinder example. “It” can almost be said as a sticking point, see Jeff Hardy who despite all his trials and tribulations can jump in the world title picture today with no problem. The fans just connect with him Fair cop. I was thinking of the pre-2002 era but your example is 100% correct.
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malloc
Team Rocket
asian cookbook
Posts: 756
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Post by malloc on Jan 23, 2019 14:29:27 GMT -5
Too cold Scorpio- looked like a bad ass, moved like one couldn't talk and did to much weed.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 23, 2019 14:35:08 GMT -5
Curt Hennig. Benoit. Dolph Ziggler. Billy Bitchcakes.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jan 23, 2019 14:39:31 GMT -5
I don't think so. Charisma is one's innate likability. Something inborn that just draws people to you. It's not really something you can train in a person. You might be able to sort of train them to FAKE it in some ways, but in the end it'll always be caught on to as artificial. Being naturally charming and likable is of course going to give any young wrestler an advantage with crowds when they start, I’ll agree with that. But I link “it” with charisma because a wrestler or performer can train themselves to become more confident and expressive, more dynamic and emotional with their speech and body language/poise. The Rock is another example alongside Nakamura who started out with a bit of spark to him when he debuted, and gradually evolved into someone who commands the attention of the room. I think AJ Styles is leaps and bounds more captivating a personality from his early TNA years. I don't disagree, I just, I don't know, I guess I find 'presence' (which I think can be learned) and 'charisma' (which I don't) to be different.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Jan 23, 2019 17:23:20 GMT -5
Currently I'm picking Finn Balor. To quote Jim Cornette, "if this was a movie, you'd be cast as the best friend." Finn just can't cut the mustard brother.
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Captain Stud Muffin (BLM)
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 23, 2019 17:26:47 GMT -5
Currently I'm picking Finn Balor. To quote Jim Cornette, "if this was a movie, you'd be cast as the best friend." Finn just can't cut the mustard brother. I need to see Finn as a heel and how they treat him before I fully write him off in regards to being a lead guy
He has the entrance, the look and the crowd is still in love with him when he has no real direction
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jan 23, 2019 17:34:03 GMT -5
Being naturally charming and likable is of course going to give any young wrestler an advantage with crowds when they start, I’ll agree with that. But I link “it” with charisma because a wrestler or performer can train themselves to become more confident and expressive, more dynamic and emotional with their speech and body language/poise. The Rock is another example alongside Nakamura who started out with a bit of spark to him when he debuted, and gradually evolved into someone who commands the attention of the room. I think AJ Styles is leaps and bounds more captivating a personality from his early TNA years. I don't disagree, I just, I don't know, I guess I find 'presence' (which I think can be learned) and 'charisma' (which I don't) to be different. Someone can have charisma but not know how to tap into it or express it. Very few people ever start out in wrestling already as interesting and dynamic as they become, but there's no doubt they're charismatic, they just need to find their vibe and learn how to convey that to a big crowd full of people and to TV cameras, especially since they're portraying characters that aren't themselves and finding a way to fit into that character can take time even for a good actor.
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