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Post by CMPunkyBrewster on Jan 31, 2019 6:45:22 GMT -5
To paraphrase Bret Hart, chops are bullshit. Stiffing someone with a bunch of chops is not a character and it's not wrestling. Bret Hart also rates women's matches by whether or not they give him a boner, and thinks everyone not named "Bret Hart" is sloppy and unsafe. He also threw temper tantrums and got pouty any time he had to work with somebody better than him or, god forbid, had to do the job. So maybe he's not exactly the guy to define what wrestling is.
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Post by hotshotalex on Jan 31, 2019 9:15:25 GMT -5
To paraphrase Bret Hart, chops are bullshit. Stiffing someone with a bunch of chops is not a character and it's not wrestling. Bret Hart also rates women's matches by whether or not they give him a boner, and thinks everyone not named "Bret Hart" is sloppy and unsafe. He also threw temper tantrums and got pouty any time he had to work with somebody better than him or, god forbid, had to do the job. So maybe he's not exactly the guy to define what wrestling is. I love Bret Hart. I recently read his massive autobiography which was great but had several eye rolling moments like him calling Ric Flair and Dean Malenko bad workers. Back to the subject of Walter as long as the opponent knows what he’s getting into and has no issues with taking those chops I don’t see an issue.
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Post by Hobby Drifter on Jan 31, 2019 9:55:27 GMT -5
As long as the opponent is fine with it then what's the problem? Where do you draw the line? Mick Foley was okay with getting thrown off a cage and taking years of chair shots to the head. There are tons of Indy wrestlers who are okay with getting DDT’d through light tubes and juicing to the point of needing a blood transfusion. At what point do you say “yeah; doesn’t matter if YOU are okay with it; still no?” Lopping off a finger? Getting shot in an area away from non-vital organs? Choking someone to the point of clinical death? There have to be some hard lines drawn. Chopping somebody with tremendous blunt force, very near the heart should maybe be in that conversation.
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Pushed to the Moon
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Tony Schiavone in Disguise
Working myself into a shoot
Posts: 15,819
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Jan 31, 2019 9:56:26 GMT -5
Nobody's getting a broken neck from stiff chops. It's sore, but it's not something actually risking severe injury of the guy taking it. I think Walter's chops get blown out of proportion relative to stuff like unprotected headbutts when they're not really on the level of a big risk; at worst, it stings for a while and fades, he's not dropping anyone onto their head with these. Yeah, the whole point of wrestling is not to actually hurt your opponent but outside of a bruise it isn’t killing anyone No real big difference from when Sheamus does his 10 forearms or anything like that. I hate that Sheamus thing too!
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TGM
Hank Scorpio
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Post by TGM on Jan 31, 2019 11:13:36 GMT -5
As long as the opponent is fine with it then what's the problem? Where do you draw the line? Mick Foley was okay with getting thrown off a cage and taking years of chair shots to the head. There are tons of Indy wrestlers who are okay with getting DDT’d through light tubes and juicing to the point of needing a blood transfusion. At what point do you say “yeah; doesn’t matter if YOU are okay with it; still no?” Lopping off a finger? Getting shot in an area away from non-vital organs? Choking someone to the point of clinical death? There have to be some hard lines drawn. Chopping somebody with tremendous blunt force, very near the heart should maybe be in that conversation. Shooting people and dismemberment aren't allowed in wrestling dude.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jan 31, 2019 11:16:03 GMT -5
As long as the opponent is fine with it then what's the problem? Where do you draw the line? Mick Foley was okay with getting thrown off a cage and taking years of chair shots to the head. There are tons of Indy wrestlers who are okay with getting DDT’d through light tubes and juicing to the point of needing a blood transfusion. At what point do you say “yeah; doesn’t matter if YOU are okay with it; still no?” Lopping off a finger? Getting shot in an area away from non-vital organs? Choking someone to the point of clinical death? There have to be some hard lines drawn. Chopping somebody with tremendous blunt force, very near the heart should maybe be in that conversation. I mean, everyone condemned someone throwing a cement block at someone’s head so I guess that’s the breaking point.
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Post by Prince Petty on Jan 31, 2019 11:44:42 GMT -5
To paraphrase Bret Hart, chops are bullshit. Stiffing someone with a bunch of chops is not a character and it's not wrestling. Bret Hart also rates women's matches by whether or not they give him a boner, and thinks everyone not named "Bret Hart" is sloppy and unsafe. He also threw temper tantrums and got pouty any time he had to work with somebody better than him or, god forbid, had to do the job. So maybe he's not exactly the guy to define what wrestling is. And he's wrong about those things, but he's right about chops. They're bullshit.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 31, 2019 11:56:18 GMT -5
Where do you draw the line? Mick Foley was okay with getting thrown off a cage and taking years of chair shots to the head. There are tons of Indy wrestlers who are okay with getting DDT’d through light tubes and juicing to the point of needing a blood transfusion. At what point do you say “yeah; doesn’t matter if YOU are okay with it; still no?” Lopping off a finger? Getting shot in an area away from non-vital organs? Choking someone to the point of clinical death? There have to be some hard lines drawn. Chopping somebody with tremendous blunt force, very near the heart should maybe be in that conversation. I mean, everyone condemned someone throwing a cement block at someone’s head so I guess that’s the breaking point. The breaking point would be anything that can leave lasting damage. And even then, we're usually fine with it (whether or not we should be is another conversation). If somebody wants to be consistent about hating chops, then realize that there is no such thing as a worked chop. Ric Flair, Ricky Steamboat, Kenta Kobashi, WALTER, Roderick Strong, Samoa Joe, it doesn't matter: they hit, and they hit hard, and they leave marks. But again, be consistent: Sheamus is stiff, so was Vader, so were any number of people who use strikes and who are widely liked and/or respected today. And what about the spot at the Rumble where Asuka and Becky did whatever that driver move was off the apron to the floor, landing directly on their backs? No way to work that, either, the bumps they took were straight-up. I don't advocate recklessness, but if you're only cringing now because you can see the popped blood vessels and handprints on someone's chest, then you've been missing how a whole ton of pro wrestling has been working for decades.
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Post by CMPunkyBrewster on Jan 31, 2019 13:10:49 GMT -5
Bret Hart also rates women's matches by whether or not they give him a boner, and thinks everyone not named "Bret Hart" is sloppy and unsafe. He also threw temper tantrums and got pouty any time he had to work with somebody better than him or, god forbid, had to do the job. So maybe he's not exactly the guy to define what wrestling is. And he's wrong about those things, but he's right about chops. They're bullshit. Hart regularly did piledrivers (which have resulted in countless injuries and ended plenty of careers) and superplexes (also resulted in a litany of career ending injuries, as well as being among the most painful things you can do in the ring). Chops have never ended anyone's career or resulted in an injury worse than some bruising. Him or anyone else criticizing chops while regularly using or applauding legitimately dangerous moves is f***ing ridiculous and defies all logic.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 31, 2019 13:21:06 GMT -5
I feel like some of y’all are way overreacting to this
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Facetious
King Koopa
ADAM COLE BAYBAY
Posts: 12,393
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Post by Facetious on Jan 31, 2019 13:25:36 GMT -5
I feel like some of y’all are way overreacting to this I don't know about that, this titty smacking business is DANGEROUS. I mean, what's next, chair shots, full speed dives to the outside, deliberate elbows to the skull? Where does it stop?!
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Post by lildude8218 on Jan 31, 2019 13:27:59 GMT -5
WALTER vs. Stephanie McMahon at Wrestlemania. SLAP VS SLAP
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Post by Prince Petty on Jan 31, 2019 13:34:03 GMT -5
And he's wrong about those things, but he's right about chops. They're bullshit. Hart regularly did piledrivers (which have resulted in countless injuries and ended plenty of careers) and superplexes (also resulted in a litany of career ending injuries, as well as being among the most painful things you can do in the ring). Chops have never ended anyone's career or resulted in an injury worse than some bruising. Him or anyone else criticizing chops while regularly using or applauding legitimately dangerous moves is f***ing ridiculous and defies all logic. Except Bret did them safely, and never injured anyone. Which was his whole point - chops hurt. There's no way for them not to. And the reason for this thread, apparently, was to show how this Walter guy is prepared to hurt people. And sure, chops might not break your neck or tear your knee ligaments, but the whole point of wrestling is to put on a show while not hurting your opponent. Anyone who agrees to get chopped until there are hand-shaped bruises on their chest, just because it's the other wrestler's gimmick, is a mug. This is no different than the sort of 'pay your dues' shit that the likes of Bob Holly and JBL like to trot out as 'traditional'. Wrestling is already physical enough, and takes enough of a toll, without having to deal with opponents deliberately inflicting pain because it 'looks good'.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 31, 2019 13:53:24 GMT -5
Hart regularly did piledrivers (which have resulted in countless injuries and ended plenty of careers) and superplexes (also resulted in a litany of career ending injuries, as well as being among the most painful things you can do in the ring). Chops have never ended anyone's career or resulted in an injury worse than some bruising. Him or anyone else criticizing chops while regularly using or applauding legitimately dangerous moves is f***ing ridiculous and defies all logic. Except Bret did them safely, and never injured anyone. Which was his whole point - chops hurt. There's no way for them not to. And the reason for this thread, apparently, was to show how this Walter guy is prepared to hurt people. And sure, chops might not break your neck or tear your knee ligaments, but the whole point of wrestling is to put on a show while not hurting your opponent. Anyone who agrees to get chopped until there are hand-shaped bruises on their chest, just because it's the other wrestler's gimmick, is a mug. This is no different than the sort of 'pay your dues' shit that the likes of Bob Holly and JBL like to trot out as 'traditional'. Wrestling is already physical enough, and takes enough of a toll, without having to deal with opponents deliberately inflicting pain because it 'looks good'.
I feel like that argument is way off base and y'all are way overthinking it
WALTER is new the WWE audience. If you showed a casual fan that photo they are going to be like who the f*** did that he's dangerous. The whole point is to make a good first impression which is what he did. Everyone on the UK roster is not going to be walking around with a hand sized chop print on their chest. If this was across his face i'd be singing a different tune because that's blunt force trauma to your brain but he hit across the chest which could still be dangerous but in the end all this is, is an impressive visual
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 31, 2019 13:57:29 GMT -5
I feel like some of y’all are way overreacting to this I don't know about that, this titty smacking business is DANGEROUS. I mean, what's next, chair shots, full speed dives to the outside, deliberate elbows to the skull? Where does it stop?! I mean dudes take knees to the face, elbows to the head and a chop to the chest is causing a scene, I don't get it
DB has had a few matches since his return where he got chopped so much the skin damn near broke and his chest was purple. He doesn't get that every night tho.
I mean would a big ass chop hand print sign on his back be any better? From my standpoint all it is, is an impressive visual to get people to go HOLY SHIT who did that to this man and that's what you want for your potential new star
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 3,002
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Post by Venti on Jan 31, 2019 14:00:20 GMT -5
But does he do chops on Saturdays?
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Post by Hurbster on Jan 31, 2019 15:55:53 GMT -5
Walter is awesome and I'm pretty surprised at some of the reactions here.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 31, 2019 16:13:58 GMT -5
Hart regularly did piledrivers (which have resulted in countless injuries and ended plenty of careers) and superplexes (also resulted in a litany of career ending injuries, as well as being among the most painful things you can do in the ring). Chops have never ended anyone's career or resulted in an injury worse than some bruising. Him or anyone else criticizing chops while regularly using or applauding legitimately dangerous moves is f***ing ridiculous and defies all logic. Except Bret did them safely, and never injured anyone. Which was his whole point - chops hurt. There's no way for them not to. And the reason for this thread, apparently, was to show how this Walter guy is prepared to hurt people. And sure, chops might not break your neck or tear your knee ligaments, but the whole point of wrestling is to put on a show while not hurting your opponent. Anyone who agrees to get chopped until there are hand-shaped bruises on their chest, just because it's the other wrestler's gimmick, is a mug. This is no different than the sort of 'pay your dues' shit that the likes of Bob Holly and JBL like to trot out as 'traditional'. Wrestling is already physical enough, and takes enough of a toll, without having to deal with opponents deliberately inflicting pain because it 'looks good'. What makes them incredibly different is the context in which they are happening; does the opponent want to be laid into? Are they entering the match preparation and layout process as a peer? Is it a senpai/kohai thing where the idea is to learn that pain is part of the industry, so you're basically learning how to get used to it? Or are they being forced into getting knocked around by veterans who are taking advantage of their higher position and are acting no better than bullies? From Bret Hart's perspective, it's stupid to be in wrestling and intentionally cause pain; that's Bret's prerogative, and as one of the best to ever lace them up and as someone who had a stunning record in avoiding injuries on his opponents Bret has more than earned his opinion and perspective. But Bret's way of wrestling is not, and the key is it has never been the only way the business has been presented.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2019 16:54:53 GMT -5
I guess if the opponents are fine with it and he's not just stiffing dudes like Vader, I'm cool.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 31, 2019 16:58:03 GMT -5
Except Bret did them safely, and never injured anyone. Which was his whole point - chops hurt. There's no way for them not to. And the reason for this thread, apparently, was to show how this Walter guy is prepared to hurt people. And sure, chops might not break your neck or tear your knee ligaments, but the whole point of wrestling is to put on a show while not hurting your opponent. Anyone who agrees to get chopped until there are hand-shaped bruises on their chest, just because it's the other wrestler's gimmick, is a mug. This is no different than the sort of 'pay your dues' shit that the likes of Bob Holly and JBL like to trot out as 'traditional'. Wrestling is already physical enough, and takes enough of a toll, without having to deal with opponents deliberately inflicting pain because it 'looks good'. What makes them incredibly different is the context in which they are happening; does the opponent want to be laid into? Are they entering the match preparation and layout process as a peer? Is it a senpai/kohai thing where the idea is to learn that pain is part of the industry, so you're basically learning how to get used to it? Or are they being forced into getting knocked around by veterans who are taking advantage of their higher position and are acting no better than bullies? From Bret Hart's perspective, it's stupid to be in wrestling and intentionally cause pain; that's Bret's prerogative, and as one of the best to ever lace them up and as someone who had a stunning record in avoiding injuries on his opponents Bret has more than earned his opinion and perspective. But Bret's way of wrestling is not, and the key is it has never been the only way the business has been presented. Don't tell that to Bret tho
But yeah, there is a bunch of different ways to wrestle and everyone has their own way to be successful
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