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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 7, 2019 15:12:15 GMT -5
Instead of talking about who screwed people maybe we can count those where were screwing others. In the '90s that would be Hogan, Shawn, Razor, Nash, Hunter, Austin and that's about it I disagree with Austin. He admitted that the only person he ever buried and refused to work with was Jarrett, and he had a valid reason for doing that. The reason he refused to work with Mero was because of Marc’s stupidity and pretty much everyone on the mid to main card refused to work with Mero after that. Other names: Owen, Billy Gunn, wouldn't lose at SummerSlam 99 to Trips, and that little matter with Brock. I mean he wasn't wrong in all cases, but yeah.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 7, 2019 15:20:11 GMT -5
I disagree with Austin. He admitted that the only person he ever buried and refused to work with was Jarrett, and he had a valid reason for doing that. The reason he refused to work with Mero was because of Marc’s stupidity and pretty much everyone on the mid to main card refused to work with Mero after that. Other names: Owen, Billy Gunn, wouldn't lose at SummerSlam 99 to Trips, and that little matter with Brock. I mean he wasn't wrong in all cases, but yeah. Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 7, 2019 15:35:04 GMT -5
Other names: Owen, Billy Gunn, wouldn't lose at SummerSlam 99 to Trips, and that little matter with Brock. I mean he wasn't wrong in all cases, but yeah. Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. Yes and sadly burying him was quite literal in the end. As him, and Shawn, not wanting to work with him led to him being shunted down to the midcard, which led to midcard stories and characters, including...the reboot of the Blue Blazer.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 7, 2019 15:39:02 GMT -5
Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. Yes and sadly burying him was quite literal in the end. As him, and Shawn, not wanting to work with him led to him being shunted down to the midcard, which led to midcard stories and characters, including...the reboot of the Blue Blazer. He should’ve apologized. He asked Austin about doing the sitting down piledriver and Austin told him to not do it because Steve injured another wrestler years before while doing a similar move, Owen agreed but then just did it. Shawn was an asshole but Austin had a valid reason to bury him.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 7, 2019 16:49:59 GMT -5
Other names: Owen, Billy Gunn, wouldn't lose at SummerSlam 99 to Trips, and that little matter with Brock. I mean he wasn't wrong in all cases, but yeah. Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Feb 7, 2019 16:52:36 GMT -5
Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me. I always thought, much like Shawn's 4 year hiatus it was mostly a smokescreen for bigger issues he had professionally and personally that he had to deal with.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Feb 7, 2019 16:53:49 GMT -5
Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me. Steve was very paranoid and protective of his spot but honestly he should have been. Many of the things he refused to do would have done nothing but hurt him. You see today how guys who never say no end up...
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 7, 2019 17:07:10 GMT -5
I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me. Steve was very paranoid and protective of his spot but honestly he should have been. Many of the things he refused to do would have done nothing but hurt him. You see today how guys who never say no end up... Austin had every reason to be a paranoid. Again, like I said, totally legit reasoning to not want to job to Brock on a random Raw. It's a catastrophically stupid idea. But I simply do not buy that you get to the top of this industry, stay there for years, get handed accolades nobody else has been handed, and walk out of the company entirely for eight months when you're asked to job JUST because you think it'll make more money later rather than just not wanting to do jobs now that you're not the hottest thing any more. I don't want to 'if CM Punk did it' this thread too hard, but Austin seems to be the only top guy who said anything like this that gets remotely believed.
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mcstoklasa
Hank Scorpio
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Post by mcstoklasa on Feb 7, 2019 17:09:07 GMT -5
I disagree with Austin. He admitted that the only person he ever buried and refused to work with was Jarrett, and he had a valid reason for doing that. The reason he refused to work with Mero was because of Marc’s stupidity and pretty much everyone on the mid to main card refused to work with Mero after that. Other names: Owen, Billy Gunn, wouldn't lose at SummerSlam 99 to Trips, and that little matter with Brock. I mean he wasn't wrong in all cases, but yeah. He lost to Trips all the time nearly
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Feb 7, 2019 17:13:01 GMT -5
Steve was very paranoid and protective of his spot but honestly he should have been. Many of the things he refused to do would have done nothing but hurt him. You see today how guys who never say no end up... Austin had every reason to be a paranoid. Again, like I said, totally legit reasoning to not want to job to Brock on a random Raw. It's a catastrophically stupid idea. But I simply do not buy that you get to the top of this industry, stay there for years, get handed accolades nobody else has been handed, and walk out of the company entirely for eight months when you're asked to job JUST because you think it'll make more money later rather than just not wanting to do jobs now that you're not the hottest thing any more. I don't want to 'if CM Punk did it' this thread too hard, but Austin seems to be the only top guy who said anything like this that gets remotely believed. It also got super petty when they ran a whole Raw about how he was a bitch, with his friend JR yelling the took his ball and went home line over and over. I'm very sure a big reason he left for so long was because of how pissed he was about that. Looking back on that Raw none of that stuff comes off as anything other than Vince being petty and it looks pathetic.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 7, 2019 17:15:16 GMT -5
Austin had every reason to be a paranoid. Again, like I said, totally legit reasoning to not want to job to Brock on a random Raw. It's a catastrophically stupid idea. But I simply do not buy that you get to the top of this industry, stay there for years, get handed accolades nobody else has been handed, and walk out of the company entirely for eight months when you're asked to job JUST because you think it'll make more money later rather than just not wanting to do jobs now that you're not the hottest thing any more. I don't want to 'if CM Punk did it' this thread too hard, but Austin seems to be the only top guy who said anything like this that gets remotely believed. It also got super petty when they ran a whole Raw about how he was a bitch, with his friend JR yelling the took his ball and went home line over and over. I'm very sure a big reason he left for so long was because of how pissed he was about that. Looking back on that Raw none of that stuff comes off as anything other than Vince being petty and it looks pathetic. To be honest, I would be the most interested in what conversations arose between The Rock and Austin after that. They got Rock back early, had Rock bury Austin, and then the motherf***ers had a feud for Mania the next year. Like, I know they were never actually friends with each other, being in direct competition and all, but... was there an apology? Did it need to be apologised for? Did Austin understand it was just business? I would be fascinated.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Feb 7, 2019 17:20:52 GMT -5
I assume somehow they got over it since in Austins last match in Seattle he told the Rock he loved him.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 7, 2019 17:39:14 GMT -5
Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me. Steve Austin saved the company from bankruptcy and then made Vince a billionaire. There’s no reason for him to do a random and meaningless job. It would be like Hogan doing a random job that didn’t build to anything. There were other issues like his personal life and his health, but the main reason of the walkout was creative.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Feb 7, 2019 17:41:37 GMT -5
I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me. Steve Austin saved the company from bankruptcy and then made Vince a billionaire. There’s no reason for him to do a random and meaningless job. It would be like Hogan doing a random job that didn’t build to anything. There were other issues like his personal life and his health, but the main reason of the walkout was creative. Again, all perfectly reasonable justifications, but all of which rely on Austin being a reasonable person whose word we can buy.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 7, 2019 19:46:28 GMT -5
Yes and sadly burying him was quite literal in the end. As him, and Shawn, not wanting to work with him led to him being shunted down to the midcard, which led to midcard stories and characters, including...the reboot of the Blue Blazer. He should’ve apologized. He asked Austin about doing the sitting down piledriver and Austin told him to not do it because Steve injured another wrestler years before while doing a similar move, Owen agreed but then just did it. Shawn was an asshole but Austin had a valid reason to bury him. The Shawn reference was in reference to how he too thought Owen shouldn't be in main events. He worked with him once than passed him over to Triple H until he turned to the Nation.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Feb 7, 2019 19:51:09 GMT -5
Being on the decline hasn't stopped WWE pushing many, many people. I would say DDP counts in a list like this. I get your point, the wwe pushed a lot of old guys who were not as good as they were in the past, the difference is that they listened to Vince and the agents, DDP didn’t do that. Hardcore Holly explained in his book that Page wasn’t used to the more physical wwe style of bumping multiple times to sell a babyface comeback, well apparently DDP didn’t do it in house shows working with The Undertaker, this along with trying to script the matches, pissed Vince and Undertaker off. Page wasn’t used to how things worked in the wwf which had a more professional environment compared to wcw in which the inmates ran the asylum. And besides all that, the little thing called being one of WCW's top 5 stars. Gotta make them humble...
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 7, 2019 19:51:51 GMT -5
He should’ve apologized. He asked Austin about doing the sitting down piledriver and Austin told him to not do it because Steve injured another wrestler years before while doing a similar move, Owen agreed but then just did it. Shawn was an asshole but Austin had a valid reason to bury him. Can I just say.... no. He didn't. That's a valid reason to FIRE OWEN. He's doing dangerous shit his opponent asked him not to do (and therefore wouldn't necessarily be prepared for)? Fire the guy. But it is NOT a valid reason to affect his booking. 'Punishing' someone by making them lose fake fights is never valid.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 7, 2019 20:06:07 GMT -5
He should’ve apologized. He asked Austin about doing the sitting down piledriver and Austin told him to not do it because Steve injured another wrestler years before while doing a similar move, Owen agreed but then just did it. Shawn was an asshole but Austin had a valid reason to bury him. Can I just say.... no. He didn't. That's a valid reason to FIRE OWEN. He's doing dangerous shit his opponent asked him not to do (and therefore wouldn't necessarily be prepared for)? Fire the guy. But it is NOT a valid reason to affect his booking. 'Punishing' someone by making them lose fake fights is never valid. Austin refused to work with him that’s all he did, he never went to Vince and told him what to do with Owen Hart. Owen was a great wrestler but his promos were the shits, he was never gonna be a main eventer.
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Post by Doctor No on Feb 7, 2019 20:10:23 GMT -5
Owen broke his neck by doing the piledriver against Austin wishes. Owen never even apologized. Yeah you’re right Austin buried him but he had a good reason. Billy said that never happened and recently appeared on the Austin podcast. The only person Gunn said that buried him was Triple H. It was Vince who switched the plan from Summerslam to Raw so more people would watch Triple H get the belt. He refused to lose to Brock on a meaningless raw with no buildup, he said he had no problem losing if they build the match on a ppv because it was a match people wanted to see. It would be like Cena wrestling AJ for the first time ever on a random raw, it doesn’t make any sense. I’ll give you Owen but not the other guys. I don't understand why people completely buy Austin's excuse about Brock. Like, it's not that he isn't right. But one of the biggest stars in wrestling history, having been relentlessly protected for five years, asked to job, and walks out of the company for eight months? That sounds like a bit more than just 'I thought it would draw a bigger number later' to me. Austin has said there was more to it and that he was having problems both physically and personally.
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Post by arrogantmodel on Feb 7, 2019 23:35:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I never fully bought Austin's reason for not working with Brock. Brock was brand new, and Austin was definitely on his way out due to health reasons.
Figure Rock had one foot and four toes on the other out the door for Hollywood, and why not just lose to Brock by countout or dq? It was a King of the Ring qualifier, right?
Have a good back and forth, and then have Brock cheat while the ref isn't looking, or have Austin get fed up, and hit Brock with a chair or refuse to release a hold.
They didn't have to have Lesnar win clean. And it sets up a street fight or something later on at a ppv.
But yeah, I think Austin saying that was an out for other things.
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