Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 19:30:32 GMT -5
In NXT, acts like Tyler Breeze, No Way Jose, The Revival and AOP are “cool”. The crowd get involved and WANT to see them. They don’t feel forced but as soon as they come to Raw, you get this vibe that they’re just “goofs” and aren’t important.
I blame Michael Cole for this. He has this way of making everything seem uncool just by talking about how COOL it is. I dunno... does anyone else notice how “forced” and uncomfortable these guys appear whenever they come to the main roster?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 5, 2019 19:32:41 GMT -5
Because everything goes through the filter of a 73 year old white male who has known money for 75% of his life who has no need right now to make things cool.
The End.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Feb 5, 2019 19:35:00 GMT -5
Because it is lame
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Feb 5, 2019 19:35:57 GMT -5
Because Vince is an old fart that sucks, that's why
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Post by Sir Woodrow on Feb 5, 2019 19:38:15 GMT -5
Vince is eight years older than Vern Gagne was when the AWA closed it's doors in 91
Vince is the new Vern
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Feb 5, 2019 19:39:03 GMT -5
I think a big reason is presentation. Everything is just so stale and homogenized. And the announces teams are horrible and make everything seem more lame than it actually is. Booking is obviously a huge problem, but anything presented in WWE’s current aesthetic, just feels sluggish.
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Feb 5, 2019 19:42:25 GMT -5
I think a big reason is presentation. Everything is just so stale and homogenized. And the announces teams are horrible and make everything seem more lame than it actually is. Booking is obviously a huge problem, but anything presented in WWE’s current aesthetic, just feels sluggish. Yeah, a lot of it is the encompassing aesthetic of the product.
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mrbananagrabber
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Post by mrbananagrabber on Feb 5, 2019 19:45:22 GMT -5
No Way Jose was never cool.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 5, 2019 19:52:16 GMT -5
No Way Jose was never cool. I mean, that brief Aries feud at least allowed him to show another aspect of the character that was kind of neat.
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Post by Lance Uppercut on Feb 5, 2019 19:58:20 GMT -5
Smaller venue with more passionate crowd? The gimmick is played out by the time it hits the main roster? The gimmicks weren’t very good in NXT either?
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Feb 5, 2019 19:58:58 GMT -5
I think a big reason is presentation. Everything is just so stale and homogenized. And the announces teams are horrible and make everything seem more lame than it actually is. Booking is obviously a huge problem, but anything presented in WWE’s current aesthetic, just feels sluggish. Yeh besides the obvious "because it is" Everything is played out,presented in the most ARTIFICAL,phony , way possible,the characters dont seem made to appease the viewer ,it is just made to market people Vince wants in posters or say they have X gimmick. There is no consequences or long term anything,the characters all have the same artificial non-natural speechs and quirks.And you can enjoy someone in the under-card this week and not feel the need to care about then because you know they might not appear the next month. They dont give stories for then or long term opportunities(Sanity and Tyler for example)
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Feb 5, 2019 19:59:37 GMT -5
Because we see everybody too frequently. By nature of the shows/schedule of takeovers NXT talent only appears sporadically preventing them from getting stale.
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Post by Old Jack Burton on Feb 5, 2019 20:29:22 GMT -5
There are subtle differences in production where it comes to lighting and camera work that make acts that were cool on NXT like Heavy Machinery seem less so.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Feb 5, 2019 20:36:14 GMT -5
Because we see everybody too frequently. By nature of the shows/schedule of takeovers NXT talent only appears sporadically preventing them from getting stale. I think this is the main thing. Also, NXT has a feeling where everyone has a chance. So, being a jobber at one point doesn't make everyone (correctly) think you're going to be treated as a loser forever, like you would be on the main roster. And also, there's nothing keeping weird acts from making it. I adored the Vaudevillains (though they shoulda segued into being hipsters rather than... time travelers, I guess?), but I totally knew they were dead in the water on the main roster, because they're weird, and the bookers can't handle that.... and to be honest, neither can a lot of the fans.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 5, 2019 20:37:21 GMT -5
Smaller venue with more passionate crowd? The gimmick is played out by the time it hits the main roster? The gimmicks weren’t very good in NXT either? But how can that apply to almost every gimmick passing through NXT? There may have been something to be said for one or two people coming up to a lack of connection or reaction, but we've seen time and again people get misused, derailed, f***ed with. Seen people whose strengths get ignored, who get unnecessary tweaks or just straight-up don't get anything to do for months at a time and end up cooled off when they actually get booked. We're enough years deep into this that the idea this super successful and well received developmental system churning out such a high failure rate somehow isn't on something being wrong with the main roster should be dead by now.
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Post by toodarkmark on Feb 5, 2019 20:46:55 GMT -5
Because everything goes through the filter of a 73 year old white male who has known money for 75% of his life who has no need right now to make things cool. The End. Why are people trying to find another answer other than this? This is the answer.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Feb 5, 2019 20:50:14 GMT -5
I'd be more inclined to blame presentation instead of the booking, because presentation is something that can directly change the perception of booking. Take Velveteen Dream, for example. Very modest TV win/loss record in 2018 (6-7-1) with several clean losses along the way, but because the presentation is treated with more care, he's become one of NXT's most beloved and credible talents. On the other hand, The Bludgeon Brothers. They had strong TV win/loss records over the course of 2018 (14-5-0 for Harper, 12-4-0 for Rowan), and got a massive win by getting the tag belts at WrestleMania, with both only having one or two pinfall losses. But the presentation was awkward and weird for the gimmick itself (especially when they kind of needed to shake off the Wyatt Family baggage), and combined with WWE's tendency to treat the tag division as low-priority, they didn't get over and are now broken up with Rowan getting repackaged and Harper still waiting for that.
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Post by prichardmark on Feb 5, 2019 20:56:15 GMT -5
Poor management between Vince/Stephanie/HHH. Out of touch ideas. . Along with inexperienced writers, no bookers, and corporate "yes men"
You can blame Vince 100% all you want. And he certainly shares culpability in the blame.. But if the TEAM of management and writers were any good, you would have good product. Vince has been around almost 40 years. His product was very good before. You're only as good as your team as well. No one is pushing/forcing to get their ideas across and sell Vince on the idea. Like guys like Russo, Patterson, Prichard, Cornette, Ross etc. did
If its all 100 percent on Vince, I hope we see a "boom period" once he retires or croaks. One or the other. If not, then maybe it wasn't all Vince's fault. I don't think HHH/Stephanie are the "answer" either
So while Old Vince has his share of there blame, theres plenty of blame to go around to others. They need to be held somewhat accountable too.
I seriously seriously doubt Vince just sits at his desk and rejects every single idea that comes across his desk. If he did, he wouldn't any employees
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 5, 2019 21:03:12 GMT -5
I think the biggest part of it is the presentation. Raw and SmackDown just feel so homogenized and lifeless. It's down to a basic presentation level, the giant LED screens and stuff are in theory impressive and all but when you combine them with the robotic announcers, the constant buzzwords, the dry format, the predictable show structure, and the constant repetition, it just makes the entire thing feel like a soulless corporate product.
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Feb 5, 2019 21:05:18 GMT -5
Shows are too long and happen too frequently.
Title overload means belts get overlooked. Women’s Tag Titles are being made a big deal now, but will be forgotten in a matter of months.
Scripted promos, scripted matches, scripted commentary. Bobby Heenan would have had some fun with someone like Otis back in the day, but nowadays he would be under a tight filter, and only allowed to hit lame buzz words and talking points.
The company is more concerned with appealing to sponsors than to fans. Going back to the Attitude Era is not a magic bullet by any means, but there is a fear of offending anyone and losing a valuable sponsor (to be fair, it’s not just wrestling affected by this).
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