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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Feb 17, 2019 3:41:26 GMT -5
... Well Because they continue to lose MILLIONS of viewers and nothing they can do currently is fixing it? Other than making excuses like "injuries" We got some legit competition like AEW popping up now and they may be stealing more talent than WWE can make in the future. The proof is in the pudding. They keep bleeding viewers and can't figure out how to stop the bleeding. Once AEW gets off the ground, they are in even deeper crap at this point. And this time theres no Stone Cold or Rock to save them AEW have one event booked. They do not have a TV deal, they do not have a touring schedule, a finalised roster, they have One. Event. I want AEW to be good, Im a fan of the guys involved, but there are a LOT of wrestling fans jumping the gun on AEW right now. I get that the promos The Elite have cut have been riveting, and we all want them to Change The World (tm). But the entire concept is an embryo right now. Yeah, Double or Nothing sold out in 4 mins and thats great, but its essentially All In 2 right now. It's a marquee supercard with a weekend of promotion that is essentially a special attraction. The WWE consistently run basketball arenas twice a week and have put over 70,000 in stadiums once a year for the last 12 years. We really need to temper our expectations with this whole "AEW is competition to WWE" mantra. This isnt just you, but Cody and the Bucks have worked a lot of us, hard. Yeah, for all we know when AEW actually gets going they fall into the same trap and only book their friends strongly and it bombs hard... hell maybe the financial backer gets cold feet and changes their mind after a poor reception or lack of profit... maybe tv stations look at what happened to literally every non WWE show on television and want nothing to do with wrestling? there are a shit load of what ifs in play at the moment and while the WWE IS taking them seriously as they should. AEW isn't anything right now... it could also become one of the best companies on the planet... but people on both sides are going a little overboard here.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 4:12:59 GMT -5
If WWE were to close up shop then Impact Wrestling (formerly TNA/GFW) would be the senior message board here. FAN, we can't let that happen. I refuse to let this happen. I will personally give Vince CPR 24/7 for decades to prevent that happening.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Feb 17, 2019 4:38:56 GMT -5
... Well Because they continue to lose MILLIONS of viewers and nothing they can do currently is fixing it? Other than making excuses like "injuries" We got some legit competition like AEW popping up now and they may be stealing more talent than WWE can make in the future. The proof is in the pudding. They keep bleeding viewers and can't figure out how to stop the bleeding. Once AEW gets off the ground, they are in even deeper crap at this point. And this time theres no Stone Cold or Rock to save them AEW have one event booked. They do not have a TV deal, they do not have a touring schedule, a finalised roster, they have One. Event. I want AEW to be good, Im a fan of the guys involved, but there are a LOT of wrestling fans jumping the gun on AEW right now. I get that the promos The Elite have cut have been riveting, and we all want them to Change The World (tm). But the entire concept is an embryo right now. Yeah, Double or Nothing sold out in 4 mins and thats great, but its essentially All In 2 right now. It's a marquee supercard with a weekend of promotion that is essentially a special attraction. The WWE consistently run basketball arenas twice a week and have put over 70,000 in stadiums once a year for the last 12 years. We really need to temper our expectations with this whole "AEW is competition to WWE" mantra. This isnt just you, but Cody and the Bucks have worked a lot of us, hard. I feel like this post needs to be pinned to the top of the forum. AEW is an exciting prospect with the potential to be great, but that is literally all it is right now.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,565
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Feb 17, 2019 6:10:08 GMT -5
I just want the family off my damn screen.
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Spider2024
Patti Mayonnaise
Dedicated 6,666th post to Irontyger
I believe in Joe Hendry.
Posts: 39,705
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Post by Spider2024 on Feb 17, 2019 7:15:28 GMT -5
Yes, the Ruff Ryders rap group should be in charge. Let them open up shop. Stop. But that's how Ruff Ryders roll!
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Post by RedSmile on Feb 17, 2019 8:28:50 GMT -5
There is an argument to be made that they way Vince and the WWE does business is unsustainable, but the fact that they can put forward such a terribly unentertaining product and still make huge profits is undeniable. I just imagine what that company could do if they were firing on all cylinders.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Feb 17, 2019 9:07:49 GMT -5
There is an argument to be made that they way Vince and the WWE does business is unsustainable, but the fact that they can put forward such a terribly unentertaining product and still make huge profits is undeniable. I just imagine what that company could do if they were firing on all cylinders. I mean, to be frank, it kind of is. They’ve been living off TV deals for almost a decade and haven’t really needed to improve on other stuff because the TV money gets bigger and bigger. It absolutely can’t last but hey, long term’s never been a speciality for some companies unless the idea is that they try and save enough money to keep them going if USA and FOX decide to pull out of their deals.
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Post by Jokaine on Feb 17, 2019 9:16:52 GMT -5
Honestly, I think WWE is verging very closely to being in a pretty bad financial situation, and every indication from how every number that isn't a TV network check is trending downward, now including merch and all, is a strong indicator of that. They're making numbers that are really good if taken on the whole and as pedantic five-word responses in threads, but the bottom looks precariously close to falling out, and i don't think they ride out five years of big contracts without having their stock fall pretty hard. Maybe not crash, but there's got to be a breakpoint on these downward-trending numbers that start to counter the contracts in a way that makes growth-obsessed investors flee. It's not enough to bring in money they need to bring in more money. It's how the recent Activision layoffs were 'justified'. These contracts have made for a bubble and if they let it be a band-aid it's only going to make the crash they have been ignoring for years even harsher. The company generated just short of a billion dollars in revenue last year while running at nearly 12 percent profit. This is without the new TV money, as that hasn't actually kicked in yet. The company consistently produces five of the top 10 rated hours of cable TV every week of every year. The network which it is fair to assume increases its profit margin each year, increases subscribers year-over-year. So, taking the last three statements into account, why again do you think WWE is "verging very closely to bring in a pretty bad situation?"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 10:23:12 GMT -5
Honestly, I think WWE is verging very closely to being in a pretty bad financial situation, and every indication from how every number that isn't a TV network check is trending downward, now including merch and all, is a strong indicator of that. They're making numbers that are really good if taken on the whole and as pedantic five-word responses in threads, but the bottom looks precariously close to falling out, and i don't think they ride out five years of big contracts without having their stock fall pretty hard. Maybe not crash, but there's got to be a breakpoint on these downward-trending numbers that start to counter the contracts in a way that makes growth-obsessed investors flee. It's not enough to bring in money they need to bring in more money. It's how the recent Activision layoffs were 'justified'. These contracts have made for a bubble and if they let it be a band-aid it's only going to make the crash they have been ignoring for years even harsher. The company generated just short of a billion dollars in revenue last year while running at nearly 12 percent profit. This is without the new TV money, as that hasn't actually kicked in yet. The company consistently produces five of the top 10 rated hours of cable TV every week of every year. The network which it is fair to assume increases its profit margin each year, increases subscribers year-over-year. So, taking the last three statements into account, why again do you think WWE is "verging very closely to bring in a pretty bad situation?" Don’t use facts to muddy the narrative man.
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Post by willywonka666 on Feb 17, 2019 10:40:51 GMT -5
I think once Vince is gone, which sad to say will be when he is physically ill or dead, it'll take a year or so for things to really kick in under Triple H. I think what we're seeing now is as much USA and Vince than Triple H
That said, I pray to God that his children don't get involved in the industry.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 17, 2019 14:03:09 GMT -5
Honestly, I think WWE is verging very closely to being in a pretty bad financial situation, and every indication from how every number that isn't a TV network check is trending downward, now including merch and all, is a strong indicator of that. They're making numbers that are really good if taken on the whole and as pedantic five-word responses in threads, but the bottom looks precariously close to falling out, and i don't think they ride out five years of big contracts without having their stock fall pretty hard. Maybe not crash, but there's got to be a breakpoint on these downward-trending numbers that start to counter the contracts in a way that makes growth-obsessed investors flee. It's not enough to bring in money they need to bring in more money. It's how the recent Activision layoffs were 'justified'. These contracts have made for a bubble and if they let it be a band-aid it's only going to make the crash they have been ignoring for years even harsher. The company generated just short of a billion dollars in revenue last year while running at nearly 12 percent profit. This is without the new TV money, as that hasn't actually kicked in yet. The company consistently produces five of the top 10 rated hours of cable TV every week of every year. The network which it is fair to assume increases its profit margin each year, increases subscribers year-over-year. So, taking the last three statements into account, why again do you think WWE is "verging very closely to bring in a pretty bad situation?" TV ratings are on the decline and have been inching slowly back downward since their short term spike. Event attendance is still steadily trending downward and bleeding money. Merch sales are down. Their audience is shrinking and every number they have relies on that. How much of that 12 percent came from a) a change in tax laws that dropped their corporate tax rate from 35% down to 21% b) a nebulous zone of money stated to be at least 100 million for two shows? Their biggest benefactors here have been the a shift in tax rate and a corrupt regime buying propaganda, neither of these are metrics they can grow on, and growth is where the obsession lies. So when next year comes around, they get that huge bump for the new TV contracts. What happens the year after that, even if everything holds in place, when live events are more of a money sink and even fewer people are buying merch? The Network brought in nine million more dollars in 2018 than in 2017, and that isn't even close to offsetting the drop in live event revenue of seven million or consumer products its own nine million down. The company generated just short of a billion dollars in revenue last year while running at nearly 12 percent profit. This is without the new TV money, as that hasn't actually kicked in yet. The company consistently produces five of the top 10 rated hours of cable TV every week of every year. The network which it is fair to assume increases its profit margin each year, increases subscribers year-over-year. So, taking the last three statements into account, why again do you think WWE is "verging very closely to bring in a pretty bad situation?" Don’t use facts to muddy the narrative man. Man some of y'all are really, really f***ing exhausting. I'm referencing shit out of their 2018 financial report and if you can't even entertain the idea that we're at least looking at different facts then you're contributing literally nothing to the conversation and aren't worth anyone's time.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 17, 2019 14:13:07 GMT -5
It will never close shop. Vince will die on a random house show in a shittown. Kevin Dunn will then be buried with him like Smithers.
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Post by Jokaine on Feb 17, 2019 14:17:36 GMT -5
The company generated just short of a billion dollars in revenue last year while running at nearly 12 percent profit. This is without the new TV money, as that hasn't actually kicked in yet. The company consistently produces five of the top 10 rated hours of cable TV every week of every year. The network which it is fair to assume increases its profit margin each year, increases subscribers year-over-year. So, taking the last three statements into account, why again do you think WWE is "verging very closely to bring in a pretty bad situation?" TV ratings are on the decline and have been inching slowly back downward since their short term spike. Event attendance is still steadily trending downward and bleeding money. Merch sales are down. Their audience is shrinking and every number they have relies on that. How much of that 12 percent came from a) a change in tax laws that dropped their corporate tax rate from 35% down to 21% b) a nebulous zone of money stated to be at least 100 million for two shows? Their biggest benefactors here have been the a shift in tax rate and a corrupt regime buying propaganda, neither of these are metrics they can grow on, and growth is where the obsession lies. So when next year comes around, they get that huge bump for the new TV contracts. What happens the year after that, even if everything holds in place, when live events are more of a money sink and even fewer people are buying merch? The Network brought in nine million more dollars in 2018 than in 2017, and that isn't even close to offsetting the drop in live event revenue of seven million or consumer products its own nine million down. I'm not sure how much of that 12 percent is related to the tax break, but the 12 is still 12. As I compared in a previous thread, the number one company in the world ran at less than a 2 percent net. If I've read correctly, they'll continue to get the Saudi money(and possibly the Australian money) for several years. As far as TV ratings, they're worth what companies are willing to pay when it comes to distribution deals. If USA and Fox feel those ratings are worth a billion dollars and are willing to come up with,that's what the TV product is worth. Just because a fan who doesn't like the direction of creative stomps and yells about declining ratings (all the while ignoring that WWE's rating destroy 99 percent of everything else on cable TV), does not mean that the company is on the verge of a financial crisis.
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Post by Tenshigure on Feb 17, 2019 14:36:16 GMT -5
Another thing: the WWE didn't back down or cancel their Crown Jewel show despite being in the epicenter of blowback and controversy while other companies backed out of their professional ties. There are still plenty of fans who "boycott" the WWE Network...for the month they're holding the event, but resubscribe or discuss their business despite those decisions that are otherwise ill-advised moves. Suffice to say, the only way you're getting rid of the McMahon family is, well...
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 17, 2019 14:46:52 GMT -5
TV ratings are on the decline and have been inching slowly back downward since their short term spike. Event attendance is still steadily trending downward and bleeding money. Merch sales are down. Their audience is shrinking and every number they have relies on that. How much of that 12 percent came from a) a change in tax laws that dropped their corporate tax rate from 35% down to 21% b) a nebulous zone of money stated to be at least 100 million for two shows? Their biggest benefactors here have been the a shift in tax rate and a corrupt regime buying propaganda, neither of these are metrics they can grow on, and growth is where the obsession lies. So when next year comes around, they get that huge bump for the new TV contracts. What happens the year after that, even if everything holds in place, when live events are more of a money sink and even fewer people are buying merch? The Network brought in nine million more dollars in 2018 than in 2017, and that isn't even close to offsetting the drop in live event revenue of seven million or consumer products its own nine million down. I'm not sure how much of that 12 percent is related to the tax break, but the 12 is still 12. As I compared in a previous thread, the number one company in the world ran at less than a 2 percent net. If I've read correctly, they'll continue to get the Saudi money(and possibly the Australian money) for several years. As far as TV ratings, they're worth what companies are willing to pay when it comes to distribution deals. If USA and Fox feel those ratings are worth a billion dollars and are willing to come up with,that's what the TV product is worth. Just because a fan who doesn't like the direction of creative stomps and yells about declining ratings (all the while ignoring that WWE's rating destroy 99 percent of everything else on cable TV), does not mean that the company is on the verge of a financial crisis. If you get to pay 14% less of your income in taxes and you post 12% profit, then the change in tax laws is 115% responsible for you turning a profit. And you're missing two vital points; one, the largest company in the world moves in numbers so big that 2% is still massive, and two, there is still always growth. Growth is what is demanded, growth is why the stock is high right now. So what I am saying is, if they have this one fixed increase coming next year, as their audience numbers and the monetization of that audience continues to slip, they are going to begin to decline, and when you decline, investors leave. WWE is benefiting from a television landscape that has allowed it to keep the pace in spite of losing hundreds of thousands of viewers a year. There's still a breakpoint here, and that's important for more than just their TV deals. There's a lot of ways you can monetize an audience, and as attendance and such go down, they have looked to branded advertising and licensing deals. The WWE license only means as much as it does when it has a strong audience behind it. With those numbers trickling downward, the value of branded advertising is lessened. And Fox has an idea of what is worth its billion dollars; it's a lot more than Smackdown is currently pulling and it's going to be a f***ing problem if they consistently trend under that. Raw last December wouldn't have made USA Network very happy, either. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to believe that trending sharply downward year on year is a bad thing and not infinitely sustainable. I also at literally no point have said there is a financial crisis coming and the fact you're doing that while also painting me in such a condescending and shitty light for no good reason with that stomping and yelling comment doesn't change that or have anything to do with that. Wall street is obsessed with growth. When growth declines, investors leave. It doesn't need to be a crisis for it to be a bad thing, you know that right? The company won't shutter its windows if the investment bubble around the new contracts bursts and it begins to ease down to its earlier value of around $20. Losing 75% stock value is bad while not bringing the company underwater by any stretch.
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Feb 17, 2019 15:23:24 GMT -5
I'm not sure how much of that 12 percent is related to the tax break, but the 12 is still 12. As I compared in a previous thread, the number one company in the world ran at less than a 2 percent net. If I've read correctly, they'll continue to get the Saudi money(and possibly the Australian money) for several years. As far as TV ratings, they're worth what companies are willing to pay when it comes to distribution deals. If USA and Fox feel those ratings are worth a billion dollars and are willing to come up with,that's what the TV product is worth. Just because a fan who doesn't like the direction of creative stomps and yells about declining ratings (all the while ignoring that WWE's rating destroy 99 percent of everything else on cable TV), does not mean that the company is on the verge of a financial crisis. If you get to pay 14% less of your income in taxes and you post 12% profit, then the change in tax laws is 115% responsible for you turning a profit. And you're missing two vital points; one, the largest company in the world moves in numbers so big that 2% is still massive, and two, there is still always growth. Growth is what is demanded, growth is why the stock is high right now. So what I am saying is, if they have this one fixed increase coming next year, as their audience numbers and the monetization of that audience continues to slip, they are going to begin to decline, and when you decline, investors leave. WWE is benefiting from a television landscape that has allowed it to keep the pace in spite of losing hundreds of thousands of viewers a year. There's still a breakpoint here, and that's important for more than just their TV deals. There's a lot of ways you can monetize an audience, and as attendance and such go down, they have looked to branded advertising and licensing deals. The WWE license only means as much as it does when it has a strong audience behind it. With those numbers trickling downward, the value of branded advertising is lessened. And Fox has an idea of what is worth its billion dollars; it's a lot more than Smackdown is currently pulling and it's going to be a f***ing problem if they consistently trend under that. Raw last December wouldn't have made USA Network very happy, either. I don't know why it's so hard for some people to believe that trending sharply downward year on year is a bad thing and not infinitely sustainable. I also at literally no point have said there is a financial crisis coming and the fact you're doing that while also painting me in such a condescending and shitty light for no good reason with that stomping and yelling comment doesn't change that or have anything to do with that. Wall street is obsessed with growth. When growth declines, investors leave. It doesn't need to be a crisis for it to be a bad thing, you know that right? The company won't shutter its windows if the investment bubble around the new contracts bursts and it begins to ease down to its earlier value of around $20. Losing 75% stock value is bad while not bringing the company underwater by any stretch. Even decreases in ratings, attendance, and merch sales are unsustainable. At some point, you will hit zero.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2019 15:29:46 GMT -5
The company generated just short of a billion dollars in revenue last year while running at nearly 12 percent profit. This is without the new TV money, as that hasn't actually kicked in yet. The company consistently produces five of the top 10 rated hours of cable TV every week of every year. The network which it is fair to assume increases its profit margin each year, increases subscribers year-over-year. So, taking the last three statements into account, why again do you think WWE is "verging very closely to bring in a pretty bad situation?" TV ratings are on the decline and have been inching slowly back downward since their short term spike. Event attendance is still steadily trending downward and bleeding money. Merch sales are down. Their audience is shrinking and every number they have relies on that. How much of that 12 percent came from a) a change in tax laws that dropped their corporate tax rate from 35% down to 21% b) a nebulous zone of money stated to be at least 100 million for two shows? Their biggest benefactors here have been the a shift in tax rate and a corrupt regime buying propaganda, neither of these are metrics they can grow on, and growth is where the obsession lies. So when next year comes around, they get that huge bump for the new TV contracts. What happens the year after that, even if everything holds in place, when live events are more of a money sink and even fewer people are buying merch? The Network brought in nine million more dollars in 2018 than in 2017, and that isn't even close to offsetting the drop in live event revenue of seven million or consumer products its own nine million down. Don’t use facts to muddy the narrative man. Man some of y'all are really, really f***ing exhausting. I'm referencing shit out of their 2018 financial report and if you can't even entertain the idea that we're at least looking at different facts then you're contributing literally nothing to the conversation and aren't worth anyone's time. Look at his posting history, heck even look at the threads he’s created. Anti-WWE, everything is terrible, hope Vince goes out of business, blah blah. AEW is gonna kill the WWE. It’s bait, low level stuff that get laughed out of Squared Circle. Why should I or anybody else take this guy’s post seriously? Why not just take the piss out of these types? There can be some really good discussions in this section but these threads that pop up are just bait. Don’t take the bait.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Feb 17, 2019 15:46:52 GMT -5
Only way WWE will be in trouble is if their deals all die at once.
Vince is a shrewd business man and has set WWE up to succeed through slumps of the product being crap. Regardless of if one or more aspects dip, there's something else to pull up the slack and keep the revenue healthy.
There's too many streams that run into WWE's financial river to worry too much. Yes, they can all dry up, but that doesn't seem likely to all happen at once.
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Post by OVO 40 hunched over like he 80 on Feb 17, 2019 15:49:06 GMT -5
Only way WWE will be in trouble is if their deals all die at once. Vince is a shrewd business man and has set WWE up to succeed through slumps of the product being crap. Regardless of if one or more aspects dip, there's something else to pull up the slack and keep the revenue healthy. There's too many streams that run into WWE's financial river to worry too much. Yes, they can all dry up, but that doesn't seem likely to all happen at once. My other theory would be if Triple H gets pissed off and pulls a Misawa, leaving with ninety percent of the main card to start his own company. Or if somehow it gets leaked if Vince actually bribed the cops so they would let Snuka walk out.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Feb 17, 2019 15:50:39 GMT -5
TV ratings are on the decline and have been inching slowly back downward since their short term spike. Event attendance is still steadily trending downward and bleeding money. Merch sales are down. Their audience is shrinking and every number they have relies on that. How much of that 12 percent came from a) a change in tax laws that dropped their corporate tax rate from 35% down to 21% b) a nebulous zone of money stated to be at least 100 million for two shows? Their biggest benefactors here have been the a shift in tax rate and a corrupt regime buying propaganda, neither of these are metrics they can grow on, and growth is where the obsession lies. So when next year comes around, they get that huge bump for the new TV contracts. What happens the year after that, even if everything holds in place, when live events are more of a money sink and even fewer people are buying merch? The Network brought in nine million more dollars in 2018 than in 2017, and that isn't even close to offsetting the drop in live event revenue of seven million or consumer products its own nine million down. Man some of y'all are really, really f***ing exhausting. I'm referencing shit out of their 2018 financial report and if you can't even entertain the idea that we're at least looking at different facts then you're contributing literally nothing to the conversation and aren't worth anyone's time. Look at his posting history, heck even look at the threads he’s created. Anti-WWE, everything is terrible, hope Vince goes out of business, blah blah. AEW is gonna kill the WWE. It’s bait, low level stuff that get laughed out of Squared Circle. Why should I or anybody else take this guy’s post seriously? Why not just take the piss out of these types? There can be some really good discussions in this section but these threads that pop up are just bait. Don’t take the bait. I'm not even sure who you're talking about or to anymore here but who is making these threads? I'm not, Jokaine sure as hell isn't. Jokaine seems to have never made a thread, my last threads were two minor gripes and a couple news threads. Assuming you are talking about me--in the third person for some reason--in my recent posting history I've been arguing in favour of the decision to put Charlotte into the Mania title match and have had tempered hopes for AEW that acknowledge they're already establishing themselves as big players. Saying "Don't take someone seriously, just blatantly take the piss out of them and don't bother having a conversation" about looking at different statistics from the same financial report as measures of different success is contributing infinitely less to any discussion than either of the people actually talking are. Or are you confused because there's like four or five different users rocking the kid Kushida avatar and all of their posts are getting collated into one incoherent blob of opinion? I'm so baffled right now by the words being put into someone's mouth and I'm still not even clear on whose mouth it is.
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