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Post by RI Richmark on Mar 19, 2019 21:48:34 GMT -5
This is idiotic on so many levels. 1-What does Vince have against Kofi? There’s no storyline context or reason for any of this. Kofi’s character isn’t some anti authority rebel who has had interactions with Vince. He’s a company guy for over a decade who’s universally respected. Whether it’s their intention or not Vince having it in for Kofi for seemingly no reason adds an uncomfortable racial dynamic that reeks of the Triple H/Booker T stuff and we know how THAT went. You know why Vince doesn't like Kofi. They won't say it but you KNOW what they're going for. Because Kofi lied about being Jamaican?
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Perd
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Post by Perd on Mar 19, 2019 21:49:59 GMT -5
Kofi will reveal the results of a recent geneaology test. He’s the Rock’s 10th cousin once removed. Vince will say this was all a big misunderstanding and give Kofi the match.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 19, 2019 21:51:25 GMT -5
I think this sort of fits in the realm of instant satisfaction
Like I said I have no problem with the build because you can see they are treating this carefully as opposed to Dolph Ziggler getting a title shot at Summerslam type situation
But they had a logical ending point tonight. That’s not wanting instant satisfaction, that’s wanting logical progression and not dragging things out longer than they need to be for no real reason. Wrestlemania is in two weeks, they can’t write two weeks worth of segments that aren’t related to Kofi still having to jump through hoops to get the match? At this rate they’ll start formally advertising the match for their biggest championship a week in advance and that’s just dumb. Ehhh I disagree. This is WWE going above and beyond to say hey Kofi is our to fight DB at Mania but we are going to dick around the babyface in classic fashion as we have done others before
Vince is basically trying to screw over Kofi for "REASONS" to the point where the roster will call him out on his foolishness next week and make him insert Kofi into Mania
Kofi in no way is being presented as a loser in this. They want fans to be outraged he's being screwed to the highest order by "the man" and the irony in it is DB the guy who fought against the machine is now apart of it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 21:52:02 GMT -5
But they had a logical ending point tonight. That’s not wanting instant satisfaction, that’s wanting logical progression and not dragging things out longer than they need to be for no real reason. Wrestlemania is in two weeks, they can’t write two weeks worth of segments that aren’t related to Kofi still having to jump through hoops to get the match? At this rate they’ll start formally advertising the match for their biggest championship a week in advance and that’s just dumb. That doesn't really make sense given the storyline they're going for. These past few weeks it's transitioned from it just being "the underdog Kofi vs Bryan" to "the underdog Kofi who's loved by all the superstars vs the guy who used to be in that same position" and given that there's more comparisons. Bryan calling Kofi a B+ Player is one, I posted the line about them comparing their performances, we're seeing the superstars rally behind Kofi, common sense says that next week there's going to be some type of big rebellion forcing Vince to put Kofi in the match because that's exactly what happened with Bryan and Trips. They're saying Kofi is the new Bryan in more ways than one so you gotta somehow have that since it happened with Bryan.
Say Kofi is in the match after tonight, what kind of rebellion do you do that compares to the whole reason why Bryan got his WM30 match?
Let alone Kofi's push literally started a little over a month ago. This is nothing compared to other superstars who have been screwed like Becky and yet people are all on that as if that storyline hasn't had a bigger issue with a major babyface being screwed.
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metylerca
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Post by metylerca on Mar 19, 2019 21:53:39 GMT -5
They don’t. Daniel takes Wrestlemania weekend off. Imagine them cutting to Bryan checking out Blu-Rays at Best Buy or picking up trash at his local beach during the WrestleMania telecast. I'd..... mark? I know it's not good booking, but the visual and fact we'd talk about it for years is alluring.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 19, 2019 22:03:49 GMT -5
I think this is another one of those cases of WWE not understanding why something was good and what made it work and what people liked about it. The Daniel Bryan rise was a situation where they had such a f***y mess of ideas and "kill the momentum, keep going with our plan" booking decisions that the only way to get him to the title involved overbooking the whole thing and having Bryan conquer all three obstacles in his way. They're trying to recreate that same indecisive uncertainty but it's so much less satisfying to give us these twists because it doesn't need it. If Kofi had just won the gauntlet and Bryan jumped him after the match that would have been probably more effective and also given us more time to set up the personal stakes between them. It feels like they can't book a simple story so everything has to be f***ed with and overbooked just for the sake of overbooking it.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Mar 19, 2019 22:24:49 GMT -5
I presume it's something like, Kingston gets the match, but all three of the New Day have to retire if he loses.
Then at Wrestlemania he loses.
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Post by cabbageboy on Mar 19, 2019 22:25:53 GMT -5
Oh there is definitely an underlying racial aspect to this storyline, but in a way I think it's better for it. If it gets more overt then it'll jump the shark, but there's a certain intrigue that the black man in this case (Kofi) has to do absurd feats of skill in order to get a title shot (such as beat 5 or 6 men in one night) whereas a white guy like Owens can casually stroll in and be handed a shot. Mustafa Ali showing up and randomly being added to the Fast Lane match is a jarring note however, since he was given the title shot owed him before an injury, not to mention Ali is a Middle Eastern wrestler presented in decidedly non stereotypical way.
As far as Vince's motives in all of this, I think he's really just senile.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Mar 19, 2019 22:27:28 GMT -5
I presume it's something like, Kingston gets the match, but all three of the New Day have to retire if he loses. Then at Wrestlemania he loses. Big E on a pole on a forklift match!
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Mar 19, 2019 22:27:52 GMT -5
But they had a logical ending point tonight. That’s not wanting instant satisfaction, that’s wanting logical progression and not dragging things out longer than they need to be for no real reason. Wrestlemania is in two weeks, they can’t write two weeks worth of segments that aren’t related to Kofi still having to jump through hoops to get the match? At this rate they’ll start formally advertising the match for their biggest championship a week in advance and that’s just dumb. That doesn't really make sense given the storyline they're going for. These past few weeks it's transitioned from it just being "the underdog Kofi vs Bryan" to "the underdog Kofi who's loved by all the superstars vs the guy who used to be in that same position" and given that there's more comparisons. Bryan calling Kofi a B+ Player is one, I posted the line about them comparing their performances, we're seeing the superstars rally behind Kofi, common sense says that next week there's going to be some type of big rebellion forcing Vince to put Kofi in the match because that's exactly what happened with Bryan and Trips. They're saying Kofi is the new Bryan in more ways than one so you gotta somehow have that since it happened with Bryan.
Say Kofi is in the match after tonight, what kind of rebellion do you do that compares to the whole reason why Bryan got his WM30 match?
Let alone Kofi's push literally started a little over a month ago. This is nothing compared to other superstars who have been screwed like Becky and yet people are all on that as if that storyline hasn't had a bigger issue with a major babyface being screwed.
You also have to look into the racial element of it that maybe only people of color or minorities in general will see
Kofi was an everyman but sometimes black people can't relate to a type like him. However, Kofi is a loyal soldier who just does his job to provide for his family. However, now is a opportunity to show he can be up with the top 1% because he does his job damn good but factors outside of his work ethic is holding him down for example his look
Kofi is connecting across all areas as the common man for everyone, the champ young black kids could potentially show they can make it, veterans in WWE in general who shows you just have to be in the right place at the right time.
The locker room sees a loyal soldier getting screwed for "Vince reasons" and will fight for him because his dream is to be WWE champ. This shit is hitting a lot places when you think about it
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:32:41 GMT -5
Just cause I hate non title matches. They should of had Vince say “Okay Kofi you get your title match... but its not at Mania its right now!” then have Bryan beat him easily.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Mar 19, 2019 22:33:50 GMT -5
But they had a logical ending point tonight. That’s not wanting instant satisfaction, that’s wanting logical progression and not dragging things out longer than they need to be for no real reason. Wrestlemania is in two weeks, they can’t write two weeks worth of segments that aren’t related to Kofi still having to jump through hoops to get the match? At this rate they’ll start formally advertising the match for their biggest championship a week in advance and that’s just dumb. Ehhh I disagree. This is WWE going above and beyond to say hey Kofi is our to fight DB at Mania but we are going to dick around the babyface in classic fashion as we have done others before
Vince is basically trying to screw over Kofi for "REASONS" to the point where the roster will call him out on his foolishness next week and make him insert Kofi into Mania Kofi in no way is being presented as a loser in this. They want fans to be outraged he's being screwed to the highest order by "the man" and the irony in it is DB the guy who fought against the machine is now apart of it
I wouldn’t be surprised if SDL opens with nearly the entire SD roster threatening to walk out if Kofi isn’t inserted into the WM match.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:39:41 GMT -5
I think this is another one of those cases of WWE not understanding why something was good and what made it work and what people liked about it. The Daniel Bryan rise was a situation where they had such a f***y mess of ideas and "kill the momentum, keep going with our plan" booking decisions that the only way to get him to the title involved overbooking the whole thing and having Bryan conquer all three obstacles in his way. They're trying to recreate that same indecisive uncertainty but it's so much less satisfying to give us these twists because it doesn't need it. If Kofi had just won the gauntlet and Bryan jumped him after the match that would have been probably more effective and also given us more time to set up the personal stakes between them. It feels like they can't book a simple story so everything has to be f***ed with and overbooked just for the sake of overbooking it. What more personal stakes can you get than Daniel "Yes Movement" Bryan personally putting the bullet in Kofi's Wrestlemania dream? Kofi's destination isn't really in doubt but there's still the question of how Kofi is gonna get there. If Kofi won the thing and got his ass kicked right after, conceptually that sounds a lot flatter than what happened. Like if you're gonna have him succeed, give him the moment. I don't think there was a right or wrong answer with the gauntlet, you can have him win and take his victory lap all the way to Wrestlemania, or screw him out of it and have him fight his way there like they seem to be doing. This angle has been very good for a long time to not at least allow this to play out a little longer before we call it a wash.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:40:45 GMT -5
That doesn't really make sense given the storyline they're going for. These past few weeks it's transitioned from it just being "the underdog Kofi vs Bryan" to "the underdog Kofi who's loved by all the superstars vs the guy who used to be in that same position" and given that there's more comparisons. Bryan calling Kofi a B+ Player is one, I posted the line about them comparing their performances, we're seeing the superstars rally behind Kofi, common sense says that next week there's going to be some type of big rebellion forcing Vince to put Kofi in the match because that's exactly what happened with Bryan and Trips. They're saying Kofi is the new Bryan in more ways than one so you gotta somehow have that since it happened with Bryan.
Say Kofi is in the match after tonight, what kind of rebellion do you do that compares to the whole reason why Bryan got his WM30 match?
Let alone Kofi's push literally started a little over a month ago. This is nothing compared to other superstars who have been screwed like Becky and yet people are all on that as if that storyline hasn't had a bigger issue with a major babyface being screwed.
You also have to look into the racial element of it that maybe only people of color or minorities in general will see Kofi was an everyman but sometimes black people can't relate to a type like him. However, Kofi is a loyal soldier who just does his job to provide for his family. However, now is a opportunity to show he can be up with the top 1% because he does his job damn good but factors outside of his work ethic is holding him down for example his look
Kofi is connecting across all areas as the common man for everyone, the champ young black kids could potentially show they can make it, veterans in WWE in general who shows you just have to be in the right place at the right time.
The locker room sees a loyal soldier getting screwed for "Vince reasons" and will fight for him because his dream is to be WWE champ. This shit is hitting a lot places when you think about it
Yep I agree with you on that. The company has a bad reputation towards some things but there's other things things they do that are very subtle especially when it comes to New Day. Here's what Kaz said about that segment he did with New Day.
New Day's not stupid. There's always been some sort of racial element to a lot of their feuds and segments, the thing is people don't see it because they're not beating it over your head with it but if you know you know. This being another angle where they don't say it but sort of hint it fits right in line with what they've been doing. I mean these are the same dudes making black culture references so subtle that the small ones people don't mention because it goes over their heads. Besides that this Kofi thing is hitting a ton of areas like you said. It doesn't matter if you're black, if you work a 9-5 you know how it is to see someone who does great work get screwed over repeatedly.
Already this is one of the best stories WWE's telling this year. It's going to be hard to top this storyline as the year goes on.
What more personal stakes can you get than Daniel "Yes Movement" Bryan personally putting the bullet in Kofi's Wrestlemania dream? Kofi's destination isn't really in doubt but there's still the question of how Kofi is gonna get there. If Kofi won the thing and got his ass kicked right after, conceptually that sounds a lot flatter than what happened. Like if you're gonna have him succeed, give him the moment. I don't think there was a right or wrong answer with the gauntlet, you can have him win and take his victory lap all the way to Wrestlemania, or screw him out of it and have him fight his way there like they seem to be doing. This angle has been very good for a long time to not at least allow this to play out a little longer before we call it a wash. Besides that you have to think. Kofi just ran through 4 guys and one was dq'd only due to putting more damage on Kofi so he couldn't get through the rest. From a storyline standpoint, Bryan just can't touch Kofi right now so Kofi needs some sort of opposition thrown his way. Like say Bryan beats Kofi down after he won. Ok, they might as well not have shown it given Kofi already won the match. It's like whenever Reigns beat someone at a ppv and yet he got beat down afterwards as if it was supposed to override the fact he won. Nah, he won the match, we know.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:45:18 GMT -5
Just saw the vids on YouTube and I thought it was fine. I mean having Joe and Orton lose clean was kind of stupid but wins and losses don’t really matter in the company anyway so no harm will be done to either guy.
The only thing I’ll say is that Xavier needs to tone down his “angry” reactions. Dude looks like a cartoon character and not convincing at all. If he tones it down a bit to make it more realistic, that would be better.
I think the racial element is fine. I don’t even mind if Vince flat out says it (he won’t). Real issues blended into entertainment, when done properly, can work. I can understand why they are avoiding it though.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Mar 19, 2019 22:50:54 GMT -5
As long as the angle ends with the (implied) racist getting proven wrong or humiliated, it’s fine.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:52:10 GMT -5
New Day's definitely switching shit up next week. They're fed up.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:56:11 GMT -5
As long as the angle ends with the (implied) racist getting proven wrong or humiliated, it’s fine. Yes that’s the key. If you’re doing a racist angle, even in a subtle way, you better have the racist lose in the end. That’s why HHH/Booker was so awful. I don’t think the E, while completely tone deaf most of the time, is stupid enough to repeat that mistake, but who knows. Long story short, Kofi better win.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:57:25 GMT -5
New Day's definitely switching shit up next week. They're fed up. The babyfaces sticking up for babyfaces part of this feud is my favorite thing about it. Doesn't happen nearly enough.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2019 22:58:41 GMT -5
New Day's definitely switching shit up next week. They're fed up. This definitely feels like Xavier and Big E insist on putting their jobs on the line for Kofi to get the shot. Kind of echoes New Day's formation and puts over the idea they're doing this for him, particularly with him being the one arguing against quitting.
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