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Post by Alice Syndrome on Mar 20, 2019 13:13:05 GMT -5
This is idiotic on so many levels. 1-What does Vince have against Kofi? There’s no storyline context or reason for any of this. Kofi’s character isn’t some anti authority rebel who has had interactions with Vince. He’s a company guy for over a decade who’s universally respected. Whether it’s their intention or not Vince having it in for Kofi for seemingly no reason adds an uncomfortable racial dynamic that reeks of the Triple H/Booker T stuff and we know how THAT went. 2-SPEAKING OF ANTI AUTHORITY REBELS, Vince JUST had problems with Daniel Bryan! Like, they JUST recently had a dueling promo where Bryan was ranting about Vince. Why is Vince helping him?! Not to mention he didn’t want Bryan anywhere near the title years ago! 3-Ok, if Vince is so deadest on Kofi not being the challenger THEN WHO IS BECAUSE WRESTLEMANIA IS IN TWO f***ING WEEKS AND THERES NO WWE CHAMPIONSHIP MATCH. You’re in charge, just pick someone else if you hate him so damn much! 4-Enough has been said about how played out the evil authority figure stuff is, but with ratings in the toilet, so many openly unhappy wrestlers, and speculation and fear about the future after Vince leaves why are they portraying the owner of the company as this incompetent vaguely racist asshole? They didn’t want to do the angle where Stephanie got arrested because they were scared of people thinking it’s a real thing, they’re not double guessing the Vince stuff? ITS ALL SO DUMB 1) He's black. At this point I don't think I even need to elaborate on that one. 2) Continuity in WWE? The hell is that? 3) We want Sheamus? I dunno, we're still only getting the Asuka opponent next week in a match announced with zero on screen promotion. WWE just hates Smackdown this year (do the SD tag champs have a match yet?) 4) I'm hoping given HHH and Steph are faces, the payoff is "Go away pops, we got this from now on"
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,816
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Mar 20, 2019 13:31:23 GMT -5
As many of us suspected, they're clearly going the racial route without saying it. Yeah it's most definitely a "Vince is out of touch and racist" angle now. I'd be easier about it if the son-in-law wasn't in an angle 16 years ago where he acted similar to Booker T... and won convincingly. I really would have preferred they not go that route, but I guess Vince knows everybody thinks that about him anyway, so...
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Shai
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,507
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Post by Shai on Mar 20, 2019 13:33:39 GMT -5
I really think this is how their writing Vince off TV for good. Shane is a heel, Vince is a heel, Stephanie and Trips are faces. He's clearly lost his mind, Next week will be Occupy Smackdown but even better because it's the actual Superstars that are gonna have ND's back.
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on Mar 20, 2019 15:02:29 GMT -5
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 20, 2019 17:13:00 GMT -5
WWE don't seem to want us to just be "Oh, I guess it'll be nice to see Bryan v Kingston", they want us to be FROTHING AND FOAMING AT THE MOUTH, PUNCHING HOLES IN WALLS MAKING OURSELVES BLEED LEVELS OF REAL EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT. It's a dangerous game to play at the best of times, let alone when they don't exactly have a lot of goodwill in storage. Well, this is the issue with the modern era of wrestling. Say what you will about Punk and Bryan setting the modern trend, but wrestling's biggest heel is now 'the office,' regardless of which authority figure it is. Yes, that was kind of always the case, but characters onscreen were still the ones getting the heat. Now WWE as a whole is the heel, and because the Bryan angle was so hot, they're now trying to make the Bryan angle happen again even though that only took off in the first place because they were f***ing morons and it only works as a great, slow-build storyline when you are watching with 100% hindsight. This is idiotic on so many levels. 1-What does Vince have against Kofi? There’s no storyline context or reason for any of this. Kofi’s character isn’t some anti authority rebel who has had interactions with Vince. He’s a company guy for over a decade who’s universally respected. Whether it’s their intention or not Vince having it in for Kofi for seemingly no reason adds an uncomfortable racial dynamic that reeks of the Triple H/Booker T stuff and we know how THAT went. You know why Vince doesn't like Kofi. They won't say it but you KNOW what they're going for. Byron alluded to it apparently by talking about Kofi having to work 'twice as hard to get half as far.' Someone on Twitter pointed it out. Extremely good work by Saxton there. I'm liking it I know people want the match official but I find the fact they keep making him chase it interesting Yeah, regardless of the criticisms I have and will levelled at this angle, I'm totally on board provided Kofi gets in that match, and if it wasn't for the racial element I wouldn't even mind if he doesn't win. Becky, Seth and Kofi all SHOULD win, but I think to stop the wrestling community being completely intolerable for months I think only one of them actually has to. Weren't people complaining about WWE not booking more in-depth storylines, now everyone is mad because the stories aren't simple enough? Now, I am the kind of whataboutism, but this is wide of the mark. Some stories in wrestling only need to be simple.
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Post by Friday Night SmackOwn on Mar 20, 2019 17:40:30 GMT -5
Byron’s commentary for the entirety of the Gauntlet was basically the best he’s ever been on commentary. Kudos.
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Mar 20, 2019 17:45:55 GMT -5
Kofi is a part of a triple threat match to determine who faces Bryan at Mania. Vince comes out and tells him that the other participants in that match are......the rest of New Day. So basically the three of them have to damn near kill each other for a shot at the title.
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Post by HMARK Center on Mar 20, 2019 18:00:40 GMT -5
WWE don't seem to want us to just be "Oh, I guess it'll be nice to see Bryan v Kingston", they want us to be FROTHING AND FOAMING AT THE MOUTH, PUNCHING HOLES IN WALLS MAKING OURSELVES BLEED LEVELS OF REAL EMOTIONAL INVESTMENT. It's a dangerous game to play at the best of times, let alone when they don't exactly have a lot of goodwill in storage. Well, this is the issue with the modern era of wrestling. Say what you will about Punk and Bryan setting the modern trend, but wrestling's biggest heel is now 'the office,' regardless of which authority figure it is. Yes, that was kind of always the case, but characters onscreen were still the ones getting the heat. Now WWE as a whole is the heel, and because the Bryan angle was so hot, they're now trying to make the Bryan angle happen again even though that only took off in the first place because they were f***ing morons and it only works as a great, slow-build storyline when you are watching with 100% hindsight. Yeah, unfortunately I think the whole "the office is the heel" thing is another example of the WWE taking an incorrect lesson from the late 90s; Vince as Austin's foil was a confluence of highly specific events that made the whole thing work (Montreal, Austin's character progression, the landscape of the Monday Night War, etc.), but trying to replicate that with so many wrestlers over the years misses what worked so well about the angle in '98. More than that, it misses the mark on providing the anti-authority/antihero with a proper in-ring foil. Yes, Austin vs. McMahon is the feud that people remember carrying WWF over WCW in 1998, but when it was time for the pedal to hit the medal, Austin's in-ring foil wound up being The Undertaker at SummerSlam, and then The Rock at Wrestlemania and beyond. Yes, Austin/Vince always hung in the air, but ultimately the marquee had Austin vs. Taker, then Austin vs. Rock. Now, apply that to CM Punk and Daniel Bryan, and you don't really have anybody in that in-ring foil spot. Cena could've been that for Punk had Cena finally turned heel and embraced his role as "the office's choice", but that didn't happen, so it was hard to whittle down who really represented a counter to Punk's character and in-ring style. Bryan was poised to be in the same spot had he not had to give the belt up after WM 30, since, again, guys like Orton and Batista were so secondary to "Bryan vs. the office". You can't make that story work well without having an established wrestling foil...hell, it's why Ronda's heel turn should be working well, but, well, y'know.
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Post by Magic knows Black Lives Matter on Mar 20, 2019 18:05:36 GMT -5
Kofi gotta win the belt now. Even if he loses it a month later, he H AS to win the title match. There’s no justifiable excuse to have him lose. If he loses, that’s some HHH/Booker T at Mania 19 shit and I think it might be a wrap on me watching WWE shows. No sir, I can’t live through that trauma again
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 18:11:27 GMT -5
Byron alluded to it apparently by talking about Kofi having to work 'twice as hard to get half as far.' Someone on Twitter pointed it out. Extremely good work by Saxton there. Everyone involved in this angle has done a great job in making it racial related without outright saying it. It's more thinking involved, it's more delicacy with the word choice used, it's deeper than a lot of people think it is. To some they pick up on the racial element of it, others they pick up on the "loyal 9-5er isn't good enough" story, at the end of the day the root of it all is a guy who's great enough not getting what he's due and it's connecting to people. Congrats to them for this. Booker T himself even brought up this storyline.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 20, 2019 18:13:05 GMT -5
Byron alluded to it apparently by talking about Kofi having to work 'twice as hard to get half as far.' Someone on Twitter pointed it out. Extremely good work by Saxton there. Everyone involved in this angle has done a great job in making it racial related without outright saying it. It's more thinking involved, it's more delicacy with the word choice used, it's deeper than a lot of people think it is. To some they pick up on the racial element of it, others they pick up on the "loyal 9-5er isn't good enough" story, at the end of the day the root of it all is a guy who's great enough not getting what he's due and it's connecting to people. Congrats to them for this. Booker T himself even brought up this storyline.
You also made a point earlier in the thread about New Day including a subtle racial element to a lot of stuff they do, and it's definitely true. There's a really iconic phrase in my head that Big E once used on Twitter in a photo. I can't even remember who was in it at the time, it might have just been him and Sasha were both champions, but it just said 'Black excellence.' If this is WWE finally doing the Wrestlemania 19 angle correctly, I am 100% in.
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Post by Mister Pigwell on Mar 20, 2019 18:20:50 GMT -5
Everyone involved in this angle has done a great job in making it racial related without outright saying it. It's more thinking involved, it's more delicacy with the word choice used, it's deeper than a lot of people think it is. To some they pick up on the racial element of it, others they pick up on the "loyal 9-5er isn't good enough" story, at the end of the day the root of it all is a guy who's great enough not getting what he's due and it's connecting to people. Congrats to them for this. Booker T himself even brought up this storyline.
You also made a point earlier in the thread about New Day including a subtle racial element to a lot of stuff they do, and it's definitely true. There's a really iconic phrase in my head that Big E once used on Twitter in a photo. I can't even remember who was in it at the time, it might have just been him and Sasha were both champions, but it just said 'Black excellence.' If this is WWE finally doing the Wrestlemania 19 angle correctly, I am 100% in. All of New Day and Rich Swann were in that too. The usual sort got in a huff over that tweet and it created a dumb ass "controversy" briefly.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Mar 20, 2019 18:33:09 GMT -5
You also made a point earlier in the thread about New Day including a subtle racial element to a lot of stuff they do, and it's definitely true. There's a really iconic phrase in my head that Big E once used on Twitter in a photo. I can't even remember who was in it at the time, it might have just been him and Sasha were both champions, but it just said 'Black excellence.' If this is WWE finally doing the Wrestlemania 19 angle correctly, I am 100% in. All of New Day and Rich Swann were in that too. The usual sort got in a huff over that tweet and it created a dumb ass "controversy" briefly. If I remember rightly, at least some of them lost their titles almost immediately afterwards, but this is Sasha we're talking about, who until recently couldn't successfully defend a title to save her life.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Mar 20, 2019 18:46:37 GMT -5
How in the f*** can you strongly build to and advertise a match if you're this far out and don't have a card lined up? This isn't filler this is the f***ing WWE title, advertise your shit. Build to a story. It's like Vince has forgotten how to do his job. Because mania sells itself. They don’t have to sell matches anymore they sell a week long vacation.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
Posts: 14,053
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Mar 20, 2019 18:47:19 GMT -5
Board of Directors.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 20, 2019 19:10:04 GMT -5
How in the f*** can you strongly build to and advertise a match if you're this far out and don't have a card lined up? This isn't filler this is the f***ing WWE title, advertise your shit. Build to a story. It's like Vince has forgotten how to do his job. Because mania sells itself. They don’t have to sell matches anymore they sell a week long vacation. Mania tickets might sell themselves but Network subs don't and if the product sucks then the people not going on that week long vacation are losing reasons to watch it. That also doesn't mean the show shouldn't be good just from a basic creative standpoint.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on Mar 20, 2019 19:10:49 GMT -5
I like this story because it's kinda up to the viewer's discretion. It could either be outright racism for what Vince wants out of his top champions or just about Kofi's position on the card as a smaller mid-card guy that has yet to prove himself to the top brass. It's unusually nuanced in that way - they aren't saying it out loud like they normally would do to tell a story. New Day are the feel good comedy guys that pop a crowd, they aren't meant to be near the main event or god forbid the WWE Champion! That's super believable and has truth to it. Kofi is also black, and excluding the once-in-a-lifetime kinda star that The Rock was, nobody else has won the actual WWE title that was black. There's reality to all this, and while obviously it's a story, it creates a lot of questions that help people get behind Kofi in wanting to see him defy all the bullshit thrown at him to ultimately come out on top. They're working the social media s/marks into a frenzy about it, and it keeps building into this desire to want to see Kofi dropkick those old social norms and get his much deserved due as a top star. It helps change some minds too, because while a lot of folks love Kofi and New Day, perhaps some weren't as convinced that he should be a champion - they're doing everything they can to rally people behind him.
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Juice
El Dandy
Wrong? Oh he can tell ya about being wrong.
I'm the one who raised you from perdition.
Posts: 8,172
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Post by Juice on Mar 20, 2019 19:12:17 GMT -5
Because mania sells itself. They don’t have to sell matches anymore they sell a week long vacation. Mania tickets might sell themselves but Network subs don't and if the product sucks then the people not going on that week long vacation are losing reasons to watch it. That also doesn't mean the show shouldn't be good just from a basic creative standpoint. They dont need you or me to gave network. Globally they are doing well putting on the shit wall product
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Mar 20, 2019 19:17:37 GMT -5
Mania tickets might sell themselves but Network subs don't and if the product sucks then the people not going on that week long vacation are losing reasons to watch it. That also doesn't mean the show shouldn't be good just from a basic creative standpoint. They dont need you or me to gave network. Globally they are doing well putting on the shit wall product That's cool, I'm going to direct you real quick to the last sentence of the post you quoted: I don't care if Vince McMahon has enough money to make Jeff Bezos the guy who grooms his body hair, for the basic fact of that they are putting out entertainment media there should be a baseline level of pride and creative integrity that pushes them to actually bother putting on a good show, and no amount of tickets sold or foreign regimes giving them dirty money will shield them from that criticism.
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bob
Backup Wench
The "other" Bob. FOC COURSE!
started the Madness Wars, Proudly the #1 Nana Hater on FAN
Posts: 80,478
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Post by bob on Mar 20, 2019 20:26:44 GMT -5
Thanos will use the time stone to rewind the past week
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