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Post by Error on Apr 8, 2019 11:02:19 GMT -5
Yeah this is one of those things where I don't see how making it right with one person suddenly fixes everything. Like Big E said, people deserve a shot at redemption. If he owned up and admitted his wrong doing and is truly sorry, why is it something that can’t be moved on from? Not everyone can or will give someone another chance when it comes to things like this. Someone like Hogan saying racist things isn't easy for some to put away, he was an idol to many of all races and to hear him say those thing killed a bit of their childhood. That brings real life to an escape, to something fun. There is no one person that can make these judgments. To some he will always be that guy on that tape, Austin will always be the guy that hit Debra, that AJ has openly anti-lgbtq, remember that Mike Tyson was rapist and so on. Some will look at what happened after these things and move on, some won't. There just isn't a way for things like this to be made clean again. Sadly for all, the strain will never be gone.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 8, 2019 11:05:12 GMT -5
South Park had a great line about this. "Jesse Jackson is not the emperor of Black People." "....he told me he was."
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Post by Pgarodactyl on Apr 8, 2019 11:08:58 GMT -5
After the Hall of Fame speeches, particularly Harlem Heat saying Hogan went to bat for them in WCW, I have to wonder if maybe there was something of a bridge towards reconciliation with Hogan.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 8, 2019 11:09:15 GMT -5
Like Big E said, people deserve a shot at redemption. If he owned up and admitted his wrong doing and is truly sorry, why is it something that can’t be moved on from? Not everyone can or will give someone another chance when it comes to things like this. Someone like Hogan saying racist things isn't easy for some to put away, he was an idol to many of all races and to hear him say those thing killed a bit of their childhood. That brings real life to an escape, to something fun. That’s the other thing. Hearing Hogan’s comments about black people is like hearing Superman start lecturing about the Jewish problem. When your hero breaks your heart, that’s hard to recover from.
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mattperiolat
King Koopa
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Post by mattperiolat on Apr 8, 2019 11:14:47 GMT -5
Big E tweeted that Hogan gave him a real apology last night and he accepts it. This is what many have said Hogan didn’t do, but it sounds like he finally man’d up and accepted responsibility and apologized from his heart. Do you think this is enough to move on from his racist remarks? It’s up to the individual, really. Big E had a big night last night that on balance shows what it really means to rise above what others may think. If he is OK with Hogan now, good for him. That applies to everyone really. You can’t unring the bell, you can only decide if you believe if a person and who they are is better or worse than their worst moments. Big E is choosing a better, not bitter, path. He will live longer and his is really the better example anyway.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 11:15:04 GMT -5
Not everyone can or will give someone another chance when it comes to things like this. Someone like Hogan saying racist things isn't easy for some to put away, he was an idol to many of all races and to hear him say those thing killed a bit of their childhood. That brings real life to an escape, to something fun. That’s the other thing. Hearing Hogan’s comments about black people is like hearing Superman start lecturing about the Jewish problem. When your hero breaks your heart, that’s hard to recover from. It's also, frankly, why I have so little sympathy for him. Hogan's one of the most well paid wrestlers of all time. The dude was a cultural icon, arguably the biggest pop culture figure of the 80's. An absolutely massive crossover star. And he was fine with that, and all the success that got him. There weren't any times in that where anybody was going "Well, maybe we should remember he's just a regular guy". Hogan certainly wasn't thinking that when the dude was buying giant mansions and giving advice to children on how to behave. That brings an expectation with it. When society lets you get win after win like that, you owe it to behave like you're something special. Like you mean something to people. I find the dude trying to make himself smaller and lower profile since this happened very frustrating.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 8, 2019 11:41:33 GMT -5
Look, if he's *truly* sorry and has really grown as a person, then that's fantastic. Still has work to do to prove that his words aren't hollow Basically how I feel. Good for Big E in that regard, but Hogan’s already done a good deal of damage. It’s a scar that’s never going to leave his legacy. I need to see more from him.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 8, 2019 11:48:42 GMT -5
New Day were perfectly happy issuing statements about Hogan not being legit before.
Big E had this conversation, I didn't. He is a person of colour, I am not.
If E bought it, I trust his judgement in this case more than mine from his distance. And it doesn't mean I think Hogan is a good guy, but I will be way less angry when he shows up and just ignore his presence as much as I can.
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TheDieselTrain
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Post by TheDieselTrain on Apr 8, 2019 12:14:43 GMT -5
Meh doesn’t change a thing for me really. I’m sure since it’s WM weekend people know he’d be there and talent were talked to. So not buying it really. Still never want to see him again. Not talking about Big E obviously
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 12:15:05 GMT -5
It’s really up to the individual.
By all accounts, Hogan never displayed any racist tendencies during his career, and black talent have never accused him of being racist (that I’m aware of). If he is a closet racist who feels a certain way at home but never has it trickle into his everyday life, then it’s much easier to ignore for me personally. I’m not black but I am a minority so I’ve seen all kinds of racism directed at me and friends. The closet racist is by far the least offensive to me. I honestly couldn’t care less if someone is a racist at home but fine in public.
On the flip side, someone who is outwardly racist and has no shame in it? That’s unforgivable to me. That’s why Vince will never get a cent from me ever again. But different strokes.
Ultimately all that really matters is what the talent thinks. We can have our opinions but we don’t have to work with him or communicate with him. If he’s changed for the better then great.
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Post by darbus alan on Apr 8, 2019 12:25:56 GMT -5
The racism has always been the cherry on top of the shit sundae when it comes for my dislike of Hogan as a person. Even if I accepted his apology for the racist stuff as 100% authentic and genuine, taking the cherry off doesn't make the sundae any less shit.
Also Hogan is a really good liar, so I'd have to see him walk the walk some versus just saying some nice sounding words and not living up to them.
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Post by realist on Apr 8, 2019 12:30:31 GMT -5
Big E tweeted that Hogan gave him a real apology last night and he accepts it. This is what many have said Hogan didn’t do, but it sounds like he finally man’d up and accepted responsibility and apologized from his heart. Do you think this is enough to move on from his racist remarks? It’s up to the individual, really. Big E had a big night last night that on balance shows what it really means to rise above what others may think. If he is OK with Hogan now, good for him. That applies to everyone really. You can’t unring the bell, you can only decide if you believe if a person and who they are is better or worse than their worst moments. Big E is choosing a better, not bitter, path. He will live longer and his is really the better example anyway.I hate when people say stuff like this. I have to ask, what makes you so clairvoyant?
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Apr 8, 2019 12:43:19 GMT -5
It’s up to the individual, really. Big E had a big night last night that on balance shows what it really means to rise above what others may think. If he is OK with Hogan now, good for him. That applies to everyone really. You can’t unring the bell, you can only decide if you believe if a person and who they are is better or worse than their worst moments. Big E is choosing a better, not bitter, path. He will live longer and his is really the better example anyway.I hate when people say stuff like this. I have to ask, what makes you so clairvoyant? Well Warrior made his peace with Hogan and died a couple of days later...
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Pushed to the Moon
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Post by Pushed to the Moon on Apr 8, 2019 12:47:56 GMT -5
Since Hogan’s return into the WWE fold, everybody has been very careful with their words, so I think it is important to note that Big E did not say he accepted Hogan’s apology, but that he appreciated the apology. Here is his tweet: (“I’d like to think everyone deserves a path to redemption. I appreciate Hulk Hogan taking the time to apologize & hear my position today.”) This is a step in the positive direction, mostly because of the word “hear”. From the start Hogan needed to listen to people. Yeah that's not an acceptance to me. More like Hogan said sorry and E said "I still don't like you and what you did was disgraceful but thanks anyway".
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Post by Doctor No on Apr 8, 2019 12:48:15 GMT -5
I would have loved to have seen and heard this conversation. Between Big E possibly standing their awkwardly rubbing his chest and making faces(doing his E thing) and Hogan stuttering and stammering everytime he is about to say “Brother” but trying not to given the subject. I’ll buy the Mania Blu-ray or the network for a year if they have BTS footage of that.
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mattperiolat
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Post by mattperiolat on Apr 8, 2019 12:53:24 GMT -5
It’s up to the individual, really. Big E had a big night last night that on balance shows what it really means to rise above what others may think. If he is OK with Hogan now, good for him. That applies to everyone really. You can’t unring the bell, you can only decide if you believe if a person and who they are is better or worse than their worst moments. Big E is choosing a better, not bitter, path. He will live longer and his is really the better example anyway.I hate when people say stuff like this. I have to ask, what makes you so clairvoyant? It’s a known fact - those who live without anger, without regret, live better lives. If that’s not enough, pardon me for using an expression and just choosing to be happy E is taking a higher road.
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Post by realist on Apr 8, 2019 12:58:59 GMT -5
I hate when people say stuff like this. I have to ask, what makes you so clairvoyant? It’s a known fact - those who live without anger, without regret, live better lives. If that’s not enough, pardon me for using an expression and just choosing to be happy E is taking a higher road. Man, I wish someone would tell all those stillborn babies and cancer patients to stop being so damn bitter!! Nah, I'm being an asshole there, and I have no ill will toward you, because I know that you were just trying to use a positive expression. But I hate expressions like that. If you think about it, it is a slap in the face to people who lost loved ones way too young. It is not your fault; before my current job, I worked in the medical field. I got to see a lot of good people die young and a lot of bad people live long lives, so I'm a bit sensitive to those kinds of expressions.
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Post by freeze Austin on Apr 8, 2019 13:02:15 GMT -5
I'm skeptical due to the long documented character of the person in question (for more than just the racist remarks), but I also don't feel it's my place to make a judgment here, it's really up to each individual person of color whether or not they accept and believe Hogan's apology.
Personally I just don't see what value Hogan can bring to the on screen product beyond just minor HOF stuff. Maybe the Be A Star stuff and educating young people to do better than what he did because it's still a huge problem especially in the online chat forum and gaming scene. Online racism and bigotry is actually worse now than it was when I was a high schooler on the internet from 2001-2005. I never would've dreamed of posting and saying some of the shit I see these truly whacked out kids posting these days, and I'm from a real backwoods state and town.
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mattperiolat
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Post by mattperiolat on Apr 8, 2019 13:03:00 GMT -5
It’s a known fact - those who live without anger, without regret, live better lives. If that’s not enough, pardon me for using an expression and just choosing to be happy E is taking a higher road. Man, I wish someone would tell all those stillborn babies and cancer patients to stop being so damn bitter!! Nah, I'm being an asshole there, and I have no ill will toward you, because I know that you were just trying to use a positive expression. But I hate expressions like that. If you think about it, it is a slap in the face to people who lost loved ones way too young. It is not your fault; before my current job, I worked in the medical field. I got to see a lot of good people die young and a lot of bad people live long lives, so I'm a bit sensitive to those kinds of expressions. You’re absolutely right - I need to think not just about what I say, but how it is perceived. Don’t just use an expression because it’s easy, but use your own thoughts without being insensitive. I should know better and it’s incredibly ironic that we are having this discussion about words and meaning with this topic under the circumstances. Thank you for the course correction. I am not without flaw and I will get better only when called on it.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2019 13:10:58 GMT -5
Just saw the Hogan clip from Mania, and sounded like he got a big pop. I think we can retire these threads now. Bringing him back on their biggest show clearly means he’s back in the fold (at least for special occasions) and the fans were not rebelling against him like many people here thought they would. It is what is is now, for better or worse.
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