Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,704
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Post by Kalmia on May 19, 2019 12:02:04 GMT -5
Yeah, if Benoit had had a complete mental break it's perfectly possible that he could have just switched into regular mode after killing Nancy and Daniel and still tried to make his wrestling commitments. There is no logic here that we can follow; that's the whole point. We'll never know what was going through his mind or why he did it, but he did do it.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 19, 2019 12:17:23 GMT -5
Regarding his paranoia at being followed and someone being out to get him, I don't believe I've ever seen anyone present a credible reason that Benoit would be targeted. No mob connections, no shady friends he might have done wrong, no obsessive stalker. The closest people have come up with is the ex-husband of his wife, who did a gimmick where he was evil, back in the early 90s. Is it possible that some random psychopath fixated on Benoit and decided to kill him, without ever being noticed by anyone else - neighbours, friends, co-workers - and was so good at covering their tracks that the police could find no trace? I guess it's theoretically possible, but it seems far more likely that a man with mashed potato for a brain imagined he was being targeted by someone because he couldn't think properly any more. I call it the Dino Bravo connection that Bret Hart discussed about in his book when Bravo was murdered. The theory was an interesting one and made me believe that it's possible Benoit might've gotten himself mixed in with a shady crowd. Remember his close friends even said how private, stern, and quiet Benoit was and if anything was bothering him no one could've gotten the information out of him. I think any and all theories regardless of how laughable they might be deserves some research and questions. To simply dismiss even the most over the top ones is disingenuous. Needless to say the only truth we can agree on is that it's an unexplainable tragedy. All we have to go on is the unfortunate nature of our imagination as to what transpired. What I think is disingenuous is acting as if “we’ll never know EXACTLY what happened” is a good justification for continued skepticism in the face of absolutely overwhelming evidence.
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Post by The 1Watcher Experience on May 19, 2019 12:58:21 GMT -5
I wasn’t there so I don’t know what happened or the reasons why but I 100% believe Benoit did it.
Benoit loved his wine. When he was in ECW he was saving a big bottle for after the show. Axl Rotten swiped it and drank the whole thing. Benoit looked like he wanted to kill him. I understand the anger about the theft but I also believe he drank the wine found at the scene.
There have been many shoot interviews that came out with the ECW roster courtesy of “I’ll Pretend You Said 18” Video where people have mentioned Nancy cheating on Kevin Sullivan with a handful of the ECW roster. Names were mentioned but out of respect to Nancy I’m not repeating them. I could see Benoit being concerned about her past given his own paranoia.
There’s also the Paul London and Brian Kendrick shoot interview from Highspots where Benoit’s anger issues were discussed at length. His ability to snap at just being touched on the shoulder was pretty telling stuff. They weren’t surprised at all that Benoit lost it.
Nancy’s sister’s appearance on the Jericho podcast is a must listen for anyone that still has doubts. Benoit brutally killed her. I remember her having issues with her neck and that’s what he went after. He definitely intended to harm her by doing that.
That makes a real possibility that he got drunk and got into a fight with her. Many couples know how to push each other’s buttons. Nancy could hold her own with Kevin Sullivan. I don’t see her backing down from Benoit. Alcohol intensifies emotions. Benoit is drinking and is proven to be quick to anger. Mix all of that together and it’s a dangerous combination. It wouldn’t be hard to believe that Benoit looked down on her for her past and felt he gave her a better life than she would’ve had elsewhere and thought she didn’t appreciate it since she talked back to him. There was a ton of that mentality that the men in wrestling were to be treated like knights while the women were considered whores. I’m thankful that the divas revolution is changing that perception but unfortunately it was a very real mindset at the time. When you’re angry and fighting with someone you’re focused on things negative about them. Nancy probably complained about her neck. Benoit, out of anger or rage, might have wanted to give her something to complain about, so to speak. Things went too far and there was no turning back. I’m much more inclined to believe a scenario like that than any conspiracy theory.
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Post by DZ: WF Legacy on May 19, 2019 13:06:34 GMT -5
I'm gonna echo that interview Jericho did with Nancy's sister. It's on YouTube. She's an incredibly emotionally-intelligent person with complicated feelings, and she was directly seeing and communicating with both he and Nancy leading up to the incident. Her insight is unlike any other person involved.
She said both Benoit and even Nancy were doing a lot of "self-medicating" after many of their friends died in the business. When drugs are involved, you never know how much that screws with someone, especially someone like Benoit whose brain was already damaged.
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Post by Hit Girl on May 19, 2019 13:42:18 GMT -5
He was one of the Three Horseman who got demoted to Monday RAW by a woman called Nancy for being a crippler who did a flying headbutt on Kevin Sullivan who was a Satan worshipper who lived in a dungeon while working for the WCF wrestling league.
Source - Nancy Grace
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Matt
El Dandy
Posts: 8,708
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Post by Matt on May 19, 2019 14:13:40 GMT -5
I do wonder how much CTE really had to do with it. Not that I doubt it’s a real thing but it seems like he was just a bad guy overall.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on May 19, 2019 14:32:52 GMT -5
I don't know, a lot of these claims could only be verified if you had the police reports. Were they released to the public? Well, people will be sceptical if a celebrity is murdered and the case is closed quickly. I fully admit that there are a lot of questions I have surrounding this tragedy. From my own personal perspective it felt too open and shut to me. Closed quickly? Open and shut? The investigation was over a year long. Also, paranoia like Chris' is a fairly common unfounded symptom of mental illness. Just because someone think they're being followed on a regular basis doesn't mean they are.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
Who are you to doubt Belldandy?
Posts: 14,794
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Post by hassanchop on May 19, 2019 14:38:48 GMT -5
mods, if you think this is too morbid/inappropriate of a topic then I apologize and feel free to lock. 20) Retired Wrestler Bam Bam Bigalow died 1-19-07. Sherry Martel died 6-15-07. The Benoit family died 6-22-07. Since this family died, 2 other wrestlers have died. (Brian Adams and Johnny Crush in July and August 07) Chris Benoit, Eddie Guerrero and Brian Pillman all died the night before they were set to win title belts. Sherry Martel’s death is even more suspicious to me. Sherry Martel had ties to Nancy Benoit’s ex-husband Kevin Sullivan. The circumstances surrounding her death have not been released. [/spoiler][/quote] Just to add, I've mentioned this almost a decade ago I presume, Sean Waltman/X-Pac was so drugged up months after that, he botched a suicide attempt, Juventud Guerrera aka The Juice found him all drugged up. Not trying to trivialize this as suicide is something not to make light out of, nor trying to wish death on anyone but I am always curious if he did do it, how his death would contribute to the conspiracy theories or how the media might have sensationalized and exploited his death. And if Juvi would appear on the news to give his account and how it would look(and I'm sure we would be talking about his news interviews for weeks for a variety of reasons). By the way, with stuff Mike Graham had said over the years about Benoit, why hasn't anyone suspected him in their conspiracy theories? Language warning Language warning Are they worried adding him in their theories won't draw a dime?
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ayumidah
Wade Wilson
Don't bother pretending I seem fine, I like that I'm a mess
Posts: 27,313
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Post by ayumidah on May 19, 2019 15:20:34 GMT -5
Pretty much. He killed himself before the police could get to him, not out of remorse. I honestly think it was remorse. I don't believe he meant to kill Nancy at all. Once again I point back to the Val Venis and Bob Holly interviews when they discussed it. Most likely scenario is both Chris and Nancy were drinking, an argument ensued that resulted in Benoit losing himself and choking her out. Afterwards he's thinking she's going to wake up and when she doesn't, at that moment it's when begins to sober up, calm down, and realize what he's done. I don't know what to say about the hanging around the dead bodies since that's new information for me. I was under the impression that he killed Nancy and Daniel the same day, then killed himself. I do believe that when Eddie died that was the beginning of the end for Chris though. I read the autopsy report. It was more than just snapping and choking her out. She was bruised all over, from her back all down her legs, and he'd tied her up.
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Venti
Unicron
Posts: 3,000
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Post by Venti on May 19, 2019 15:20:57 GMT -5
Not much to add, but has anyone else noticed in his last couple years, how much Benoit changed appearance wise? In the time period after Eddie passed, Benoit's hair thinned considerably, his eyes became less bright and more sunken in. He just looked miserable in his last couple years.
I know alot of it is aging, but it really looked like all the alcohol, drugs, mental problems, marriage problems, and the passing of his close friends took it's toll on him. In hindsight he was clearly troubled and on a dark path.
I don't think he "snapped" and I don't think he "didn't know what he was doing" either. I believe his mind was in such a sick and dark place, and he did the unthinkable. All of these extreme problems I mentioned above compounded by brain injury, I believe, can drive someone to something like this.
I think the many conspiracy theories on the internet are very irresponsible, and people need to leave Kevin Sullivan alone. That poor guy probably has enough grief knowing what happened to his ex-wife, and a bunch of random strangers on the internet calling him an evil cult leader and trying to say he committed murder just make things worse.
I think people have that part of their mind, where they can't believe someone they saw as a hero like Benoit could be capable of such an atrocious act, so they constantly search for answers that likely aren't there.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 27,986
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Post by chazraps on May 19, 2019 15:39:03 GMT -5
I think any and all theories regardless of how laughable they might be deserves some research and questions. To simply dismiss even the most over the top ones is disingenuous. No they don't and no it's not. It's disrespectful to the victims and those who actually researched and worked on the case to suggest otherwise.
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Post by eJm on May 19, 2019 15:43:15 GMT -5
I think any and all theories regardless of how laughable they might be deserves some research and questions. To simply dismiss even the most over the top ones is disingenuous. No they don't and not it's not. It's disrespectful to the victims and those who actually researched and worked on the case to suggest otherwise. Also, you know who did that research and answered those questions? The investigators on the case. And even through everything, they said Benoit killed his wife, his son and then himself. If there was any doubt, we’d have known about it at the time.
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Post by realist on May 19, 2019 15:43:36 GMT -5
I think that some people should ask themselves why they are willing to do gold medal worthy mental gymnastics to defend a child murderer? Because of workrate?! GTFOH
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on May 19, 2019 15:49:51 GMT -5
I think any and all theories regardless of how laughable they might be deserves some research and questions. To simply dismiss even the most over the top ones is disingenuous. No they don't and no it's not. It's disrespectful to the victims and those who actually researched and worked on the case to suggest otherwise. The only dumb questions and theories are the ones not suggested. Every theory presented deserves to be read and heard, no matter how ridiculous it may seem.
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Post by kingoftheindies on May 19, 2019 15:50:47 GMT -5
Honestly the more that has come out, the more that it sounds like there were warning signs of Benoit having a breakdown or going through issues and his peers just brushed it off. From all accounts the 3 guys he could talk about anything were Eddie, Black Cat, and Johnny Grunge. When they died I think Chris felt he had nobody he can talk to. From the sounds of it he tried to talk to a few people but either they didn't understand or Chris didn't explain what was troubling him (more than likely both).
Honestly I just remember all of the stories I've heard from people who knew Chris at the time and how it was a downward spiral. He was becoming more emotional, he was becoming more and more paranoid, and from some accounts Chris was really scared of the future with moving to ECW. He thought it was him being put out to pasture, and when they explained they wanted to start transitioning him to a trainer/coach he panicked. He didnt like time away from wrestling, and he feared what would happen when he couldn't wrestle. I think that contributed just as much
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on May 19, 2019 15:53:39 GMT -5
I think that some people should ask themselves why they are willing to do gold medal worthy mental gymnastics to defend a child murderer? Because of workrate?! GTFOH I don't necessarily equate it to mental gymnastics. They're simply asking questions, presenting different theories, and attempting to find out why it happened. Investigators can get things wrong and have in the past. There's nothing wrong with people asking legitimate questions and presenting theories on their end, no matter how ridiculous it may seem. Yes, the whole satanic cult thing is very, very far fetched and in general is laughable. But at least people are asking questions and presenting their own theories. For me I do have a lot of questions still. In the end regardless of the theories, the answers, or whatever, the tragedy still happened and nothing anyone thinks, says, or does will change it. Even if there was a 0.000001% chance that its proven Benoit didn't do it, he is still dead, Nancy is dead, and so is Daniel. Nothing will change that tragic unfortunate outcome.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on May 19, 2019 15:58:10 GMT -5
I call it the Dino Bravo connection that Bret Hart discussed about in his book when Bravo was murdered. The theory was an interesting one and made me believe that it's possible Benoit might've gotten himself mixed in with a shady crowd. Remember his close friends even said how private, stern, and quiet Benoit was and if anything was bothering him no one could've gotten the information out of him. I think any and all theories regardless of how laughable they might be deserves some research and questions. To simply dismiss even the most over the top ones is disingenuous. Needless to say the only truth we can agree on is that it's an unexplainable tragedy. All we have to go on is the unfortunate nature of our imagination as to what transpired. What I think is disingenuous is acting as if “we’ll never know EXACTLY what happened” is a good justification for continued skepticism in the face of absolutely overwhelming evidence. Again none of us were there. We don't know what happened on that horrific day. It doesn't matter what we believe or what we think we might know, based on what we've read or heard. In the end it doesn't change the tragic outcome. A mother and a child are dead, a father who was an immensely talented figure who was bound for a HOF induction at some point committed the unthinkable and in many cases unforgiveable. He is also dead too. Three people died way before their time and it's a tragedy anyway we slice it. However, there's nothing wrong with people asking questions and presenting theories either. If people cannot handle a particular theory or question being asked then a debate probably isn't the best scenario for them.
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riseofsetian1981
King Koopa
"I met him fifteen years ago. I was told there was nothing left."
Posts: 10,323
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Post by riseofsetian1981 on May 19, 2019 15:59:09 GMT -5
Yeah, if Benoit had had a complete mental break it's perfectly possible that he could have just switched into regular mode after killing Nancy and Daniel and still tried to make his wrestling commitments. There is no logic here that we can follow; that's the whole point. We'll never know what was going through his mind or why he did it, but he did do it. Exactly!!!! Thank you.
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Bub (BLM)
Patti Mayonnaise
advocates duck on rodent violence
Fed. Up.
Posts: 37,742
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Post by Bub (BLM) on May 19, 2019 16:02:43 GMT -5
The thing is, the autopsy revealed that Benoit's brain was mush. The reason nothing he did over that weekend makes sense is because the guy was crazy. Like, genuinely needed intense professional help crazy. Benoit fans, rather than coming up with crazy conspiracy theories, should just take solice in the fact that he very likely didn't kill anyone in his right frame of mind. He most likely wasn't evil, just very very sick.
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Post by realist on May 19, 2019 16:02:53 GMT -5
I think that some people should ask themselves why they are willing to do gold medal worthy mental gymnastics to defend a child murderer? Because of workrate?! GTFOH I don't necessarily equate it to mental gymnastics. They're simply asking questions, presenting different theories, and attempting to find out why it happened. Investigators can get things wrong and have in the past. There's nothing wrong with people asking legitimate questions and presenting theories on their end, no matter how ridiculous it may seem. Yes, the whole satanic cult thing is very, very far fetched and in general is laughable. But at least people are asking questions and presenting their own theories. For me I do have a lot of questions still. In the end regardless of the theories, the answers, or whatever, the tragedy still happened and nothing anyone thinks, says, or does will change it. Even if there was a 0.000001% chance that its proven Benoit didn't do it, he is still dead, Nancy is dead, and so is Daniel. Nothing will change that tragic unfortunate outcome. I actually agree with you that there is nothing wrong with asking legitimate questions. But, I stress the word legitimate. There is a difference between askimg a legitimate thought provoking question and asking a dumbass question that can be easily answered By doing the tiniest bit of research into the evidence. There is just too much evidence here to say that anyone other than Chris Benoit was the killer. When this first happened, I was in as much denial as anyone. First, I thought they were in an accident. Then, when I found out that they were discovered in their home, I immediately thought of a gas leak. Then, when the words "murder/suicide" We're being used, I thought Nancy was the killer. I thought it was like the Phil Hartman murder. Finally, as details and evidence began to emerge, I had to face the fact that a man who I looked up to was a child murderer.
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