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Post by tankisfreemason on Jan 2, 2020 19:48:14 GMT -5
If there’s anything I’ve learned from terrible business tactics in wrestling the past couple of years, NJPW will probably recover quickly with a new network, and probably have better ratings then they’ve ever had.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 2, 2020 19:59:34 GMT -5
Impact said they were gonna take the dog if New Japan didn't get back together with them and New Japan said f*** the dog the dog dies
Called it when the buyout was announced, called it when they got canceled. Now here it is. That's a petty slimeball move, especially with the cancellation a year early, and I don't know how thsi can really be defended as a reasonable, non-slimeball thing to do.
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Post by chrom on Jan 2, 2020 20:49:24 GMT -5
Impact said they were gonna take the dog if New Japan didn't get back together with them and New Japan said f*** the dog the dog dies
Called it when the buyout was announced, called it when they got canceled. Now here it is. That's a petty slimeball move, especially with the cancellation a year early, and I don't know how thsi can really be defended as a reasonable, non-slimeball thing to do. Their will be some people who'll justify it and claim that Impact is the victim
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Jan 2, 2020 21:16:43 GMT -5
...I wish I could say I'm surprised, but given that Impact is on AXS and Anthem owns the network now, it is more or less Anthem getting the more popular brand off of the network to try and get people to watch Impact on AXS. it makes sense especially if NJPW is going to try to expand into America. Honestly ESPN should look at picking them up. They’ve got about a billion channels and an app. I think that would work out well for both sides. I mean, it would not be the first time that they did a pro wrestling show. They would need a better slot than GWF got, though.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 2, 2020 21:18:47 GMT -5
Called it when the buyout was announced, called it when they got canceled. Now here it is. That's a petty slimeball move, especially with the cancellation a year early, and I don't know how thsi can really be defended as a reasonable, non-slimeball thing to do. Their will be some people who'll justify it and claim that Impact is the victim Impact certainly aren’t victims, but the fact is about 2 months ago NJPW announced firm plans to run an active promotion in the US. I believe they announced 25 shows across 5 geographical markets, if there isn’t some sort of working agreement between Impact and NJPW that means they’re direct competitors. That means that Impact and AXS would directly be supporting a company that could in theory f*** them over by poaching talent or running competing shows. Not that I’m saying that was likely to happen, but it’s a risk. From a business stand point I understand why AXS made the call. It f***ing sucks, because I’m sure there are a lot of people who got into NJPW specifically because of the AXS show. I’m one of them, that and the WK 9 PPV are what got me hooked on NJPW and it’s a serious knock to their US visibility but once NJoA got announced, I could see this coming. It’s like if you owned a 3 shop mini mall, and you owned a coffee shop there, you’re probably not gonna lease out one of the other 2 shops to Tim Horton’s or Starbucks. Or I guess a better analogy would be if you owned a 4 bay mechanics garage, you’re not gonna lease out a bay to an independent mechanic without a very detailed working agreement about what is and isn’t fair game as he’d technically be a competitor to your mechanic work in the other bays. Like I said, I don’t like the move from a fan standpoint, but from a business standpoint I absolutely get it. Although, I haven’t listened to WOR yet, so if it turns out NJoA had no factor in the decision and it was purely a f*** you NJPW then I’ve just wasted the past 20 minutes of my life thinking and writing this out and I sincerely apologise.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 2, 2020 22:26:51 GMT -5
Their will be some people who'll justify it and claim that Impact is the victim Impact certainly aren’t victims, but the fact is about 2 months ago NJPW announced firm plans to run an active promotion in the US. I believe they announced 25 shows across 5 geographical markets, if there isn’t some sort of working agreement between Impact and NJPW that means they’re direct competitors. That means that Impact and AXS would directly be supporting a company that could in theory f*** them over by poaching talent or running competing shows. Not that I’m saying that was likely to happen, but it’s a risk. From a business stand point I understand why AXS made the call. It f***ing sucks, because I’m sure there are a lot of people who got into NJPW specifically because of the AXS show. I’m one of them, that and the WK 9 PPV are what got me hooked on NJPW and it’s a serious knock to their US visibility but once NJoA got announced, I could see this coming. It’s like if you owned a 3 shop mini mall, and you owned a coffee shop there, you’re probably not gonna lease out one of the other 2 shops to Tim Horton’s or Starbucks. Or I guess a better analogy would be if you owned a 4 bay mechanics garage, you’re not gonna lease out a bay to an independent mechanic without a very detailed working agreement about what is and isn’t fair game as he’d technically be a competitor to your mechanic work in the other bays. Like I said, I don’t like the move from a fan standpoint, but from a business standpoint I absolutely get it. Although, I haven’t listened to WOR yet, so if it turns out NJoA had no factor in the decision and it was purely a f*** you NJPW then I’ve just wasted the past 20 minutes of my life thinking and writing this out and I sincerely apologise. What Meltzer said wasnt' American shows but "better looking product". Also, they believed they'd be able to live out the last year of their contract, not be dropped a year early with no warning or cushion, just for not wantnig to make a working arrangement with their wrestling company. Also, where does competition end and synergy begin? Put a few wrestling shows on your station, use a bigger competitor for the year they have left to pull them in to your own product, promote yourself through that rival. Wrestling on TV doesn't work like coffee shops in a mini-mall; wrestling fans can and often do enjoy more than one promotion. Hell, AXS still has WOW on its station near as anyone's heard, that's another competing wrestling show. Also, this isn't about leasing anything. This is about wanting to work with someone, being turned down, then buying the station they were on and saying "Now we have your contract to hold you hostage, work with us or you're out and we're even going to rip up the existing contract with you". Business can often be about way more than immediate self-elevation, and for a company that's so willing to put out feelers and cooperate with other companies, it's clear that if you're not actively benefiting them as they want they don't care about f***ing you over in what's undeniably a malicious way of going about the split, and that's absolutely bad business.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 2, 2020 23:00:43 GMT -5
It's amazing how every time Impact looks like they've won some goodwill a bunch of bad stuff comes to light all at once. This company has some kind of curse on it, I swear.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Jan 2, 2020 23:41:11 GMT -5
Impact certainly aren’t victims, but the fact is about 2 months ago NJPW announced firm plans to run an active promotion in the US. I believe they announced 25 shows across 5 geographical markets, if there isn’t some sort of working agreement between Impact and NJPW that means they’re direct competitors. That means that Impact and AXS would directly be supporting a company that could in theory f*** them over by poaching talent or running competing shows. Not that I’m saying that was likely to happen, but it’s a risk. From a business stand point I understand why AXS made the call. It f***ing sucks, because I’m sure there are a lot of people who got into NJPW specifically because of the AXS show. I’m one of them, that and the WK 9 PPV are what got me hooked on NJPW and it’s a serious knock to their US visibility but once NJoA got announced, I could see this coming. It’s like if you owned a 3 shop mini mall, and you owned a coffee shop there, you’re probably not gonna lease out one of the other 2 shops to Tim Horton’s or Starbucks. Or I guess a better analogy would be if you owned a 4 bay mechanics garage, you’re not gonna lease out a bay to an independent mechanic without a very detailed working agreement about what is and isn’t fair game as he’d technically be a competitor to your mechanic work in the other bays. Like I said, I don’t like the move from a fan standpoint, but from a business standpoint I absolutely get it. Although, I haven’t listened to WOR yet, so if it turns out NJoA had no factor in the decision and it was purely a f*** you NJPW then I’ve just wasted the past 20 minutes of my life thinking and writing this out and I sincerely apologise. [quite]What Meltzer said wasnt' American shows but "better looking product". Also, they believed they'd be able to live out the last year of their contract, not be dropped a year early with no warning or cushion, just for not wantnig to make a working arrangement with their wrestling company. Also, where does competition end and synergy begin? Put a few wrestling shows on your station, use a bigger competitor for the year they have left to pull them in to your own product, promote yourself through that rival. Wrestling on TV doesn't work like coffee shops in a mini-mall; wrestling fans can and often do enjoy more than one promotion. Hell, AXS still has WOW on its station near as anyone's heard, that's another competing wrestling show. Well, WOW isn’t exactly what I’d call a competitor to Impact, so that part makes sense they aren’t worried about them. However, I’m definitely a lot less understanding of this move if it had nothing to do with NJoA. Also, synergy vs competition would be at the very least a handshake agreement that neither will attempt to f*** over the other. I’m on board with so much of what you said, but can we please stop this idea that buying AXS was purely about Impact or f***ing over NJPW? Anthem paid exponentially more for AXS then for Impact, it’s a much different business decision by a man trying to rebuild a media empire. David Asper has the money to buy NJPW if they’d sell it to him, hell he could probably buy a pretty significant percentage of WWE if that’s how business worked. If Asper felt it was in his best interest, he’d shutter Impact tomorrow and keep using the tape library. Also, they’ve owned the channel for less then 6 months, so not a tonne of time to really put their fingerprints on it. I just really want to reiterate, Impact didn’t buy AXS. A Canadian billionaire who happened to own Impact bought a US cable channel when he had the opportunity, much different story. We’re not even talking Ted Turner “wrestling built this network, never talk about cancelling WCW again” Impact is just a content producer for AXS and Fight Network. It’s much closer to Sinclair/ROH then WCW, WWE or AEW.
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Post by This Player Hating Mothman on Jan 3, 2020 1:01:04 GMT -5
[quite]What Meltzer said wasnt' American shows but "better looking product". Also, they believed they'd be able to live out the last year of their contract, not be dropped a year early with no warning or cushion, just for not wantnig to make a working arrangement with their wrestling company. Also, where does competition end and synergy begin? Put a few wrestling shows on your station, use a bigger competitor for the year they have left to pull them in to your own product, promote yourself through that rival. Wrestling on TV doesn't work like coffee shops in a mini-mall; wrestling fans can and often do enjoy more than one promotion. Hell, AXS still has WOW on its station near as anyone's heard, that's another competing wrestling show. Well, WOW isn’t exactly what I’d call a competitor to Impact, so that part makes sense they aren’t worried about them. However, I’m definitely a lot less understanding of this move if it had nothing to do with NJoA. Also, synergy vs competition would be at the very least a handshake agreement that neither will attempt to f*** over the other. I’m on board with so much of what you said, but can we please stop this idea that buying AXS was purely about Impact or f***ing over NJPW? Anthem paid exponentially more for AXS then for Impact, it’s a much different business decision by a man trying to rebuild a media empire. David Asper has the money to buy NJPW if they’d sell it to him, hell he could probably buy a pretty significant percentage of WWE if that’s how business worked. If Asper felt it was in his best interest, he’d shutter Impact tomorrow and keep using the tape library. Also, they’ve owned the channel for less then 6 months, so not a tonne of time to really put their fingerprints on it. I just really want to reiterate, Impact didn’t buy AXS. A Canadian billionaire who happened to own Impact bought a US cable channel when he had the opportunity, much different story. We’re not even talking Ted Turner “wrestling built this network, never talk about cancelling WCW again” Impact is just a content producer for AXS and Fight Network. It’s much closer to Sinclair/ROH then WCW, WWE or AEW. My post wasnt' to the idea they bought it just to f*** over New Japan or anything. But that is the sequence of events. "Work with us." "No." "We own your TV deal now, work with us or you're gone." Like I understand that TNA themselves did not by a whole-ass channel, I dont' think anyone does, but Anthem did what they did in this situation to the overall benefit and service of what TNA officials have wanted, which was to try and get New Japan back in bed with them. Speciating the difference in the will of a wrestling promotion versus the will of their parent company that is advancing the agenda of their wrestling promotion is splitting hairs and I phrased what I did the way I did referring to the collective presence of TNA, AXS, and Anthem.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on Jan 3, 2020 3:05:28 GMT -5
Impact certainly aren’t victims, but the fact is about 2 months ago NJPW announced firm plans to run an active promotion in the US. I believe they announced 25 shows across 5 geographical markets, if there isn’t some sort of working agreement between Impact and NJPW that means they’re direct competitors. That means that Impact and AXS would directly be supporting a company that could in theory f*** them over by poaching talent or running competing shows. Not that I’m saying that was likely to happen, but it’s a risk. From a business stand point I understand why AXS made the call. It f***ing sucks, because I’m sure there are a lot of people who got into NJPW specifically because of the AXS show. I’m one of them, that and the WK 9 PPV are what got me hooked on NJPW and it’s a serious knock to their US visibility but once NJoA got announced, I could see this coming. It’s like if you owned a 3 shop mini mall, and you owned a coffee shop there, you’re probably not gonna lease out one of the other 2 shops to Tim Horton’s or Starbucks. Or I guess a better analogy would be if you owned a 4 bay mechanics garage, you’re not gonna lease out a bay to an independent mechanic without a very detailed working agreement about what is and isn’t fair game as he’d technically be a competitor to your mechanic work in the other bays. Like I said, I don’t like the move from a fan standpoint, but from a business standpoint I absolutely get it. Although, I haven’t listened to WOR yet, so if it turns out NJoA had no factor in the decision and it was purely a f*** you NJPW then I’ve just wasted the past 20 minutes of my life thinking and writing this out and I sincerely apologise. What Meltzer said wasnt' American shows but "better looking product". Also, they believed they'd be able to live out the last year of their contract, not be dropped a year early with no warning or cushion, just for not wantnig to make a working arrangement with their wrestling company. Also, where does competition end and synergy begin? Put a few wrestling shows on your station, use a bigger competitor for the year they have left to pull them in to your own product, promote yourself through that rival. Wrestling on TV doesn't work like coffee shops in a mini-mall; wrestling fans can and often do enjoy more than one promotion. Hell, AXS still has WOW on its station near as anyone's heard, that's another competing wrestling show. Also, this isn't about leasing anything. This is about wanting to work with someone, being turned down, then buying the station they were on and saying "Now we have your contract to hold you hostage, work with us or you're out and we're even going to rip up the existing contract with you". Business can often be about way more than immediate self-elevation, and for a company that's so willing to put out feelers and cooperate with other companies, it's clear that if you're not actively benefiting them as they want they don't care about f***ing you over in what's undeniably a malicious way of going about the split, and that's absolutely bad business. The thing is Impact/Anthem does not deserve the benefit of doubt. You purchased the Network to showcase your show since you needed a channel, that's fine. However, you are using an "unfair" leverage of power in saying either you either do what I say or nothing at all You used your power of owning the channel to put yourself first. It comes off in a bad light because you could have just let the deal run out. Everyone knows this is business and accept that part but you tried to make a power move and ended up being petty. You knew NJPW was showcased on there when you purchased this so to try to strong arm is a bit crazy and now counter productive as they will still want nothing to do with you in the future. This is bad business. You have a right to look after Impact sure, but you still run a channel that needs content. This isn't your own personal thing like WWENetwork. So yeah, at the end of the day this was bad business. You couldn't get on the channel so you purchased it and then tried to make someone work with you and when they didn't you cut them. I'm all about business but that is petty
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Post by Deleted on Jan 3, 2020 4:01:16 GMT -5
And really longterm that's antithetical to forming partnerships. It's going to put people off of wanting to work with Impact if there's a very real chance they'll freak out and try to sabotage you if for whatever reason it doesn't work out.
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 3, 2020 4:39:17 GMT -5
Do they still have a relationship with NOAH? One of the only companies who is safe, since there's just such a limited capacity for Impact to f*** them over if they did sour on each other, short of withholding talent, but if you're, say, Eddie Edwards, you probably can feel pretty safe on rolling the dice on that.
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Post by chrom on Jan 3, 2020 4:45:18 GMT -5
Do they still have a relationship with NOAH? One of the only companies who is safe, since there's just such a limited capacity for Impact to f*** them over if they did sour on each other, short of withholding talent, but if you're, say, Eddie Edwards, you probably can feel pretty safe on rolling the dice on that. NOAH stopped working with them years ago
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Post by Mozenrath on Jan 3, 2020 5:08:53 GMT -5
Do they still have a relationship with NOAH? One of the only companies who is safe, since there's just such a limited capacity for Impact to f*** them over if they did sour on each other, short of withholding talent, but if you're, say, Eddie Edwards, you probably can feel pretty safe on rolling the dice on that. NOAH stopped working with them years ago I figured that was the case, but was unsure due to Edwards, though I guess it's not like Impact has the kind of money or schedule to make exclusive contracts make any sense. I am also not really sure when Edwards last did work for them, anyway, so it's a moot point.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 3, 2020 6:47:49 GMT -5
This was inevitable as Anthem weren't going to pay for content they have an in house alternative to. The decision making for this happened above anyone at Impact so I'm not particularly inclined to blame them. If NJPW were the ratings juggernaut people claim, which is odd given how AXS have never made their numbers public, they'll land on their feet somewhere else.
This is a business decisions, not a pro wrestling storyline, the only moustache twirling heel is modern capitalism, unfortunately.
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Post by HMARK Center on Jan 3, 2020 8:05:26 GMT -5
NOAH stopped working with them years ago I figured that was the case, but was unsure due to Edwards, though I guess it's not like Impact has the kind of money or schedule to make exclusive contracts make any sense. I am also not really sure when Edwards last did work for them, anyway, so it's a moot point. Naomichi Marufuji wrestled Michael Elgin at Bound for Glory this past October, and Elgin’s been working NOAH cards. That said I don’t think it’s a full partnership, given there hasn’t been much else done with other wrestlers, and NOAH’s also working with MLW now, to some extent.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jan 3, 2020 8:11:06 GMT -5
NOAH stopped working with them years ago I figured that was the case, but was unsure due to Edwards, though I guess it's not like Impact has the kind of money or schedule to make exclusive contracts make any sense. I am also not really sure when Edwards last did work for them, anyway, so it's a moot point. They technically still do have a partnership same with Impact still technically working with AAA. They judt arent doing what they did 2 years ago and taking matches to put on Impact
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Jan 3, 2020 9:09:57 GMT -5
Well, WOW isn’t exactly what I’d call a competitor to Impact, so that part makes sense they aren’t worried about them. However, I’m definitely a lot less understanding of this move if it had nothing to do with NJoA. Also, synergy vs competition would be at the very least a handshake agreement that neither will attempt to f*** over the other. I’m on board with so much of what you said, but can we please stop this idea that buying AXS was purely about Impact or f***ing over NJPW? Anthem paid exponentially more for AXS then for Impact, it’s a much different business decision by a man trying to rebuild a media empire. David Asper has the money to buy NJPW if they’d sell it to him, hell he could probably buy a pretty significant percentage of WWE if that’s how business worked. If Asper felt it was in his best interest, he’d shutter Impact tomorrow and keep using the tape library. Also, they’ve owned the channel for less then 6 months, so not a tonne of time to really put their fingerprints on it. I just really want to reiterate, Impact didn’t buy AXS. A Canadian billionaire who happened to own Impact bought a US cable channel when he had the opportunity, much different story. We’re not even talking Ted Turner “wrestling built this network, never talk about cancelling WCW again” Impact is just a content producer for AXS and Fight Network. It’s much closer to Sinclair/ROH then WCW, WWE or AEW. My post wasnt' to the idea they bought it just to f*** over New Japan or anything. But that is the sequence of events. "Work with us." "No." "We own your TV deal now, work with us or you're gone." Like I understand that TNA themselves did not by a whole-ass channel, I dont' think anyone does, but Anthem did what they did in this situation to the overall benefit and service of what TNA officials have wanted, which was to try and get New Japan back in bed with them. Speciating the difference in the will of a wrestling promotion versus the will of their parent company that is advancing the agenda of their wrestling promotion is splitting hairs and I phrased what I did the way I did referring to the collective presence of TNA, AXS, and Anthem. Not to dispute your point, I just LOL every time when Impact screws something up in the PR realm and by impulse we start calling them TNA again.
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Post by corndog on Jan 3, 2020 11:09:32 GMT -5
I think New Japan will find a place to air their TV in the US eventually, it is just a matter of how long. This might end up being a good thing for them as they could find a network on more homes than AXS. However at the same time, it was a safe network that didn't put too much pressure on them since Cuban was a fan of the product.
As far as Impact trying to pressure New Japan into a partnership, I am willing to bet that just pushed New Japan further away. It looks like they might be willing to work with AEW at this point, even at a minimal level and that took a full year to get to just this point. The ROH partnership is slowing dying, but New Japan have still not completely cut them off. New Japan just seems to be a company that likes to build trust slowly and at this point of US expansion, they are still feeling things out with the changing landscape of the US wrestling scene.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jan 3, 2020 15:26:50 GMT -5
Out of all the available partners, Impact also makes the least sense for New Japan stylistically. I love a lot of what they're doing, but it doesn't really work well with New Japan's more sports oriented style.
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