Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 8, 2020 2:11:09 GMT -5
Butterbean was a big wrestling fan and apparently was hoping the boxing match with Bart meant WWF would want to give him a job. Half surprised they didn't do just that, but I don't really think WWF was in the place financially to make it worth his while.
As for Dr. Death, ehh. I think even if he did win, he'd have been in a similar spot to someone like Dan Severn, where WWF just didn't really have a lot of ideas on what to do with him once he was in. JR wanted to give him one last big run, but he was something of an anachronism in an era that really was low on reverence for "used to be". See also: Road Warriors by the time they were out the door, in front of an increasingly apathetic fanbase and a locker room that was making fun of them behind their backs for being irrelevant.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 8, 2020 2:56:26 GMT -5
I can't believe their thought process was
"Okay, this is our next star. Let's put him in a series of REAL fights and show people!"
Like... Why not just have him attack Austin or something?
Bizarre man.
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Post by ppl591 on Apr 8, 2020 3:02:05 GMT -5
Dr. Death was not made to be a megastar in wwe. He didn't have the personality or character, especially in the attitude era.
Jim Ross I don't think did him any favors.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 8, 2020 3:03:35 GMT -5
Butterbean was a big wrestling fan and apparently was hoping the boxing match with Bart meant WWF would want to give him a job. Half surprised they didn't do just that, but I don't really think WWF was in the place financially to make it worth his while. As for Dr. Death, ehh. I think even if he did win, he'd have been in a similar spot to someone like Dan Severn, where WWF just didn't really have a lot of ideas on what to do with him once he was in. JR wanted to give him one last big run, but he was something of an anachronism in an era that really was low on reverence for "used to be". See also: Road Warriors by the time they were out the door, in front of an increasingly apathetic fanbase and a locker room that was making fun of them behind their backs for being irrelevant. and the crowds were chanting "O-L-D" at the LOD.
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Post by government mule on Apr 8, 2020 3:36:59 GMT -5
The Brawl For All didn't ruin his career. I don't think it helped it, but I can't see his gimmick getting over without some zany car-crash element added to it. I didn't see much potential for personality in him, which was far more essential in the AE than 'angry brawling tough guy wrestler' gimmick on its own, which is what JR would have liked to push, I'm sure. Even if he had won, the same thing still happens in my mind. I guess we will never know for sure.
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Post by I'm Team Bayley and Indi on Apr 8, 2020 3:50:12 GMT -5
I like some old Dr. Death matches I've seen (like when he teamed up with Terry Gordy) but he just seemed out of place in the Attitude era, someone like Shamrock had this charisma about them especially when he went into the zone. Dr. Death would need a gimmick (don't mean a fireman or anything like that) and I just don't see him pulling it off, possibly unless they went an odd couple team way with him. I just can't visualize Austin/Williams being a focal point feud of any kind
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Apr 8, 2020 4:10:56 GMT -5
I always hear of them building Dr Death for a feud against Austin, but I just don't see it, looking at the kind of feuds Austin was having at the time. Very character driven and over the top. Dr Death was a tough, no nonsense wrestler, and was past his prime to boot. Yeah, as a feud, it doesn't work. Maybe as a one-off brought in by Vince out of desperation. MAYBE you can sell it as a feud by incorporating both men's history with JR and Vince exploiting that to get in Austin's head? Williams could attack Austin backstage, or post match. Next show we find out that Williams had taken a bribe from Vince to do it. JR, being a friend to both Williams and Austin, questions Williams motivations and morales in taking the money to do this. Williams has enough and hits JR, prompting Austin to make the save. The two brawl but it's broken up. A match is set up that night. Williams wins by shenanigans, leading to a rematch at the following week. Vince attempts to interfere again but Austin eventually hits the stunner and gets the pin. A fairly interesting three weeks of TV at most. I can see Williams in that hired gun role, but nothing beyond that. Not at this point in time.
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Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Apr 8, 2020 4:20:08 GMT -5
I don't doubt people backstage had big plans for him, Corny and JR still thought he was the guy he was in the 80s, the Lesnar like amateur wrestling beast when he was beat to hell by that point from his tours in Japan.
I think reality would have set in quick, even without the Brawl for all, and he would have found himself a midcard tough guy like Shamrock, Blackman et al.
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Post by Citizen Snips on Apr 8, 2020 4:49:51 GMT -5
Doc did a couple matches in ECW in 1996, one against Taz and I think a tag with Gordy vs The Eliminators. They were not good matches. That should have been an indicator that his best days were clearly behind him but I guess JR was seeing him through a friend's eyes.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 8, 2020 5:04:04 GMT -5
Wouldn't he also have been a terrible choice to wrestle Steve 'my neck doesn't exist' Austin? His moves were all stuff suplexes, right
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4real
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Post by 4real on Apr 8, 2020 5:38:31 GMT -5
Yeah, as a feud, it doesn't work. Maybe as a one-off brought in by Vince out of desperation. MAYBE you can sell it as a feud by incorporating both men's history with JR and Vince exploiting that to get in Austin's head? Williams could attack Austin backstage, or post match. Next show we find out that Williams had taken a bribe from Vince to do it. JR, being a friend to both Williams and Austin, questions Williams motivations and morales in taking the money to do this. Williams has enough and hits JR, prompting Austin to make the save. The two brawl but it's broken up. A match is set up that night. Williams wins by shenanigans, leading to a rematch at the following week. Vince attempts to interfere again but Austin eventually hits the stunner and gets the pin. A fairly interesting three weeks of TV at most. I can see Williams in that hired gun role, but nothing beyond that. Not at this point in time. I could have maybe bought Dr Death in Bossman’s role. Not a main eventer but a hired gun to attack Austin and make life difficult for him.
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Bub (BLM)
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Post by Bub (BLM) on Apr 8, 2020 6:01:09 GMT -5
I think Jim Ross overhyping him did. I can just see Vince wanting nothing to do with Jim's Oklahoma rassler.
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thehottag
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Post by thehottag on Apr 8, 2020 6:27:11 GMT -5
and the crowds were chanting "O-L-D" at the LOD. What doesn't help is that the WWF were constantly taking shots at WCW's wrestlers for being old & has-beens. They had conditioned their audience to think that the stars of yesteryear were past it, so trying to bring in Dr Death was going to be an uphill battle to begin with.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Apr 8, 2020 7:15:44 GMT -5
and the crowds were chanting "O-L-D" at the LOD. What doesn't help is that the WWF were constantly taking shots at WCW's wrestlers for being old & has-beens. They had conditioned their audience to think that the stars of yesteryear were past it, so trying to bring in Dr Death was going to be an uphill battle to begin with. trt Bingo. Vince had brought in Williams with the aim, ultimately, of burying him. Jim Ross and Jim Cornette might not see it, but given Vince's history both before and since, it would have been another verse in the extended version of the song of how WWE disrespected the stars of the territory days. Williams would have been best used back around the same time WWF got Duggan. However, I'm not sure Williams would have gotten over to the same extent or, indeed, would even have been a good fit for the WWF back then. I can't see Hogan liking having him around.
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Post by Milkman Norm on Apr 8, 2020 9:42:20 GMT -5
Dr. Death is one of those guys who got mythologized by circumstances and what ifs. He had a bunch of traditional wrestling business people certain he'd be a hit, and because drastic circumstances kept him from being one, he gets to be talked about as if he definitely would have been if not for (X). Sort of like how you can't talk broadly about Crockett in retrospectives without going into Magnum T.A. and his accident; who knows if he would have had a big or even noteworthy reign, but the fact he didn't is something that's lionized him in history and let anyone who believed he'd be a star talk up how he could have been a star. A broken down Dr. Death would not have been a star, but Cornette and Ross give plenty of interviews and show up all the time so they're always able to sing the could-have-beens on him. Yeah... it’s not hard to see why Cornette thinks Dr. Death would be a megastar everywhere. Especially if you listen to him talk like once... But I don’t see it happening in 1998 WWF. Flat out tough guy bruisers with good wrestling wasn’t what got over in the attitude era... Personality did. He could have probably done something in WCW if it wasn’t clogged by hogan and pals and he probably could have done good business as one of Hogan’s nemesia in the late 80s. But 1998 attitude era WWF that’s a bit of a tough sell to me Edit: not to mention no one else really suffered from the Brawl for All loss... I mean Bradshaw continued his badass brawler schtick for how long after? (I meant career wise not injury yeah a bunch were injured for this dumb idea) I seem to recall a 31 year old rookie who three years prior had won the Olympic Gold Medal in freestyle wrestling with a broken neck. That seems pretty tough to me. Granted he had a ton of charisma & Doc's promos were pretty much... not good. But you give him a mouthpiece, you have him destroy some geeks & then you start a major program with Austin. It could have worked. I mean you just make him Vince's personal muscle who's there to bring the WWF Title back from that disgrace Austin. Maybe you have him jump Mick Foley (with Mr.McMahon's blessing) & take his place in the corporation. Then you can do Doc vs Austin & Doc vs Foley as a b program.
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Post by EP 54 is banned from Collision on Apr 8, 2020 10:38:42 GMT -5
I can't believe their thought process was "Okay, this is our next star. Let's put him in a series of REAL fights and show people!" Like... Why not just have him attack Austin or something? Bizarre man. What's Bulldog got to do with this?
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Post by lildude8218 on Apr 8, 2020 10:47:15 GMT -5
You know that story that JR tells all the time about pushing to sign Mick Foley and Vince finally tells him that he'll do it just so JR will know what it feels like to have a guy break his heart when he fails and how dumb Vince was for thinking that would happen?
You ever wonder if the story about signing Doc went the same way but JR just doesn't tell it that way?
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Post by sunnytaker on Apr 8, 2020 11:12:04 GMT -5
I think it hurt him and was probably a different version of russo wanting to shut JBL up. from what I recall at the time when Dr.Death was signed JR was talking him up as this great star they just signed and it rubbed a lot of people the wrong way, so he was included just to see if he could live up to JR's hype and he didn't. I remembered him as an upper midcard guy with a cool nickname but never really saw him as a main eventer. maybe a 1 month filler feud at best for Austin if they kept the "prize" accurate. once he got injured and lost "Dr. KOd by a smoking gunn" didn't have the same ring to it. even if it was him and JBL in the finals they could have done a feud between them regardless of who won maybe after the Austin match took place for the winner.
I would have thought though that by the time bart got to the semis someone should have said- "hey maybe we should start thinking about some sort of contingency plan for if bart/droz comes out on top" even though it sounded like JBL/Godfather were the two big favorites at that point. even an IC title program would have been better than "gratz you won this event that had a clearly stated prize for winning, so stay home for the a few months because creative has nothing for you." I mean bart gunn vs Austin would have been a bad main event program but IC match wouldn't be a totally out there level reward- even if it was just something they had on RAW one night.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Apr 8, 2020 11:43:59 GMT -5
At that pint, what career? He was past his prime and little known to that generation of wrestling fans. They only signed him to shut JR up.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 8, 2020 11:46:46 GMT -5
Nope.
Dr.Death was never going to get that over in WWE at that stage of his career.
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