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Post by fortknox on Apr 7, 2020 22:26:24 GMT -5
Just finished watching Dark Side Of The Ring about the Brawl For All and Cornette gets mad at Russo saying he ruined their chance at making at superstar in Dr. Death.
Come on now, Dr. Death's best days were far behind and I'm pretty sure a good chunk of the fans watching didn't know or care anything about him. And I've never bought that he was going to fight Stone Cold thing that JR likes to push. The fans wouldn't have bought him as a challenger and I doubt Austin would want to work with him.
Even without all this Doc's career would have been much of nothing.
Oh and you damn well known that JR would be singing a different tune about it if Doc won.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,372
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 7, 2020 22:33:08 GMT -5
I don't think the good Dr ever really had a chance at success in the WWE by the time he got there. Times were changing and I have a hard time seeing him being anything other than midcard.
He was a good wrestler just in the wrong place at the wrong time. If he debuted in like 1994 it could have worked.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 7, 2020 22:34:41 GMT -5
Maybe it didn't kill his career. But it did ruin what chance he may have had at another top run in any major American promotion afterwards.
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Post by fortknox on Apr 7, 2020 22:36:52 GMT -5
Maybe it didn't kill his career. But it did ruin what chance he may have had at another top run in any major American promotion afterwards. But, that's my thing even without this did Dr. Death in 98/99 really have a shot at a run at the top? I say no.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 7, 2020 22:38:28 GMT -5
You got a point there. I was 12 when I started watching wrestling on the reg in '99 and I certainly didn't know who he was.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Apr 7, 2020 23:04:22 GMT -5
I was a HUGE Dr. Death can back in the day. And by back in the day I mean his heyday in the 80s and early 90s. Having said that, his best days were behind him at the time of the hideously awful Brawl For All. This did t hurt him at all as I do t think Vince was ever going to give him a run at the top had he won. He’d have just been the guy knock out by Butterbean instead
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Post by fortknox on Apr 7, 2020 23:09:51 GMT -5
I was a HUGE Dr. Death can back in the day. And by back in the day I mean his heyday in the 80s and early 90s. Having said that, his best days were behind him at the time of the hideously awful Brawl For All. This did t hurt him at all as I do t think Vince was ever going to give him a run at the top had he won. He’d have just been the guy knock out by Butterbean instead He wouldn't have been the guy knocked out by Butterbean because he was suppose to win it. The Butterbean match was punishment for Gunn winning.
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Crappler El 0 M
Dalek
Never Forgets an Octagon
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Posts: 58,479
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Post by Crappler El 0 M on Apr 7, 2020 23:11:22 GMT -5
The injury sustained and getting knocked out ruined whatever mystique he had coming into WWF. It stopped his WWF run before it really started.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Apr 7, 2020 23:13:18 GMT -5
I was a HUGE Dr. Death can back in the day. And by back in the day I mean his heyday in the 80s and early 90s. Having said that, his best days were behind him at the time of the hideously awful Brawl For All. This did t hurt him at all as I do t think Vince was ever going to give him a run at the top had he won. He’d have just been the guy knock out by Butterbean instead He wouldn't have been the guy knocked out by Butterbean because he was suppose to win it. The Butterbean match was punishment for Gunn winning. Wow so for winning Brawl For All, Bart’s punishment was getting possibly concussed by Butterbean? Vince really is insane
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hassanchop
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Posts: 14,910
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Post by hassanchop on Apr 8, 2020 0:03:41 GMT -5
Interesting question, what if JBL won the entire thing? How would that affect or change anything, specifically Russo?
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Post by Rolent Tex on Apr 8, 2020 0:15:19 GMT -5
He wouldn't have been the guy knocked out by Butterbean because he was suppose to win it. The Butterbean match was punishment for Gunn winning. Wow so for winning Brawl For All, Bart’s punishment was getting possibly concussed by Butterbean? Vince really is insane I’m pretty sure that was a JR maneuver.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 8, 2020 0:15:22 GMT -5
He wouldn't have been the guy knocked out by Butterbean because he was suppose to win it. The Butterbean match was punishment for Gunn winning. Wow so for winning Brawl For All, Bart’s punishment was getting possibly concussed by Butterbean? Vince really is insane as far as I know they had plans for a bunch of the people in the Brawl for All I believe... but none for Bart... The Butterbean thing was an apparently a last minute thing to try and fully get him over as a real fighter if he somehow could get a win or even just get a decent showing... I think there were stories Bean was even willing to do a worked fight... but they wanted realism... cause hte B4A was real! and uh yeah...
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Post by britishbulldog on Apr 8, 2020 0:16:45 GMT -5
Interesting question, what if JBL won the entire thing? How would that affect or change anything, specifically Russo? After watching it I really wish JBL had won just to mess with Russo
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 8, 2020 0:19:48 GMT -5
Yeah him getting beat down in the brawl for all didn't help his aura... but I don't see him getting over enough to be a megastar in 98/99 even if the dumb Brawl 4 All didn't happen.
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Post by Susan "Poison" Candy on Apr 8, 2020 0:50:15 GMT -5
Wow so for winning Brawl For All, Bart’s punishment was getting possibly concussed by Butterbean? Vince really is insane as far as I know they had plans for a bunch of the people in the Brawl for All I believe... but none for Bart... The Butterbean thing was an apparently a last minute thing to try and fully get him over as a real fighter if he somehow could get a win or even just get a decent showing... I think there were stories Bean was even willing to do a worked fight... but they wanted realism... cause hte B4A was real! and uh yeah... I think getting in the ring with Butterbean is still a badass thing. I mean Bart didn't back down and yeah he took a punch from Butterbean but to get up and say "I at least tried" is kind of a win in itself in my book but maybe that's just me.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 8, 2020 1:13:47 GMT -5
Dr. Death is one of those guys who got mythologized by circumstances and what ifs. He had a bunch of traditional wrestling business people certain he'd be a hit, and because drastic circumstances kept him from being one, he gets to be talked about as if he definitely would have been if not for (X). Sort of like how you can't talk broadly about Crockett in retrospectives without going into Magnum T.A. and his accident; who knows if he would have had a big or even noteworthy reign, but the fact he didn't is something that's lionized him in history and let anyone who believed he'd be a star talk up how he could have been a star. A broken down Dr. Death would not have been a star, but Cornette and Ross give plenty of interviews and show up all the time so they're always able to sing the could-have-beens on him.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 8, 2020 1:43:15 GMT -5
Dr. Death is one of those guys who got mythologized by circumstances and what ifs. He had a bunch of traditional wrestling business people certain he'd be a hit, and because drastic circumstances kept him from being one, he gets to be talked about as if he definitely would have been if not for (X). Sort of like how you can't talk broadly about Crockett in retrospectives without going into Magnum T.A. and his accident; who knows if he would have had a big or even noteworthy reign, but the fact he didn't is something that's lionized him in history and let anyone who believed he'd be a star talk up how he could have been a star. A broken down Dr. Death would not have been a star, but Cornette and Ross give plenty of interviews and show up all the time so they're always able to sing the could-have-beens on him. Yeah... it’s not hard to see why Cornette thinks Dr. Death would be a megastar everywhere. Especially if you listen to him talk like once... But I don’t see it happening in 1998 WWF. Flat out tough guy bruisers with good wrestling wasn’t what got over in the attitude era... Personality did. He could have probably done something in WCW if it wasn’t clogged by hogan and pals and he probably could have done good business as one of Hogan’s nemesia in the late 80s. But 1998 attitude era WWF that’s a bit of a tough sell to me Edit: not to mention no one else really suffered from the Brawl for All loss... I mean Bradshaw continued his badass brawler schtick for how long after? (I meant career wise not injury yeah a bunch were injured for this dumb idea)
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Apr 8, 2020 1:45:40 GMT -5
I always hear of them building Dr Death for a feud against Austin, but I just don't see it, looking at the kind of feuds Austin was having at the time. Very character driven and over the top. Dr Death was a tough, no nonsense wrestler, and was past his prime to boot.
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thehottag
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Post by thehottag on Apr 8, 2020 1:51:42 GMT -5
The Brawl For All was super dumb, but not because it "ruined Dr Death". No-one cares about real fights in a worked environment. Godfather & Bradshaw were in the tournament & still got over, maybe not at main event level, but like I said, B4A was never going to 'make' anyone.
Dr Death could've been someone but only if he got a character which fits the times. 1999 was about as OTT as 'Attitude' got, & old school hardman Dr Death sticks out like a sore thumb. The fact that he once worked for Bill Watts with stitches in his head may impress Ross & Cornette, but wouldn't really mean much to the mainstream audience of the time.
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Post by Celexa Bliss on Apr 8, 2020 1:53:44 GMT -5
I always hear of them building Dr Death for a feud against Austin, but I just don't see it, looking at the kind of feuds Austin was having at the time. Very character driven and over the top. Dr Death was a tough, no nonsense wrestler, and was past his prime to boot. Yeah, as a feud, it doesn't work. Maybe as a one-off brought in by Vince out of desperation. MAYBE you can sell it as a feud by incorporating both men's history with JR and Vince exploiting that to get in Austin's head?
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