|
Post by "Cane Dewey" Johnson on May 11, 2020 1:05:22 GMT -5
What the f*** is up with the DCEU that it makes people lose their minds!? Maybe because of where I get my movies, comics, and comics movies news, I'm never exposed to anybody who is fervently pro-Snyder Cut. I am, however, exposed to people who are very anti-Snyder Cut to a rather ridiculous degree, specifically about how fervently pro-Snyder Cut other people on the internet are. How does the saying go? "Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference."
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 11, 2020 1:16:17 GMT -5
Assuming you never go on twitter then.
Which... smart.
But the Snyder cultists are all over there.
Hell anyone talks about the DCEU in less than glowing reviews get dogpiled on by them.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 11, 2020 1:19:23 GMT -5
Assuming you never go on twitter then. Which... smart. But the Snyder cultists are all over there. Hell anyone talks about the DCEU in less than glowing reviews get dogpiled on by them. Yea, just check the Snyder thread which is nearly 100 pages
|
|
|
Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 11, 2020 7:12:22 GMT -5
What the f*** is up with the DCEU that it makes people lose their minds!? Because these directors, even that edgelord moron Zack Snyder, know that if someone had overseen this like Feige oversaw the MCU and it had been handled right, the DCEU would be just as hot of a franchise. No one was there to tell any of them no or tried to rein them in at all, so we got stupid bullshit instead. And the failure that they presented the public with eats at them. So they waste their time on Twitter trying to deflect from the fact that they had just as big a hand in failing as the studio did. They did. Snyder was their first hire to be the Feige-like overseer, hence why he had his grubby little hands all over Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman, and still maintains a producer credit in Wonder Woman 1984 despite ostensibly having nothing to do with it. He was later replaced by Geoff Johns, who caught an insane amount of heat from Snyder stans for "stabbing Zack in the back."
|
|
|
Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on May 11, 2020 8:18:43 GMT -5
She was very good in the role, though do think Waller's written pretty out of character. I don't think she'd put up with nearly as much from the group as she does in the movie. Yea, that's one of them things where they should had someone to kill early I think they did in the Suicide Squad animated movie where someone tried to run and she blew his head off I thought that's what the guy who can climb anything was for.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 11, 2020 10:29:18 GMT -5
I still think the whole story should have been destabilizing some gov't in a fictional DC country like Bialya or Kahndaq. You have that gov't have someone like Queen Bee and some version of the Global Guardians as a superpowered threat. Make it the Dirty Dozen but with costumes.
If you made the country Kahndaq you could throw some Black Adam Easter eggs like a statue of the Rock or something.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on May 11, 2020 10:42:10 GMT -5
If I recall correctly (and hell, I could just rewatch it since it's not like I've got a lot of places to be at this current COVID moment), when MovieBob did his one-off "Really That Bad" video essay on Batman v Superman he made the clearest point about what hurt the DCEU right off the bat: you can't really deconstruct something before it's begun, unless you're counting on your entire viewing audience having a base knowledge of the vast majority of features you're trying to deconstruct.
The key moment everybody will point to there is Superman snapping Zod's neck, then screaming because he's horrified of what he's done. That moment could make sense to people who follow comic books enough to be aware of the "Superman doesn't kill" trope, but it's plopped at the end of Man of Steel like this big, defining moment, when there's almost nothing in the film to set it up; it's instead playing off of people's metatextual understanding of Superman, that he's long been written in other media not to use lethal force, and making it into a big, shocking moment in a film that hasn't made a point of Clark trying to avoid directly killing...and yes, I know, he and Zod basically level Metropolis, but I admit when I first watched it I was willing to give it a "Superman doesn't know his own strength when he goes all out" benefit of the doubt.
And then we're deconstructing Batman...when we haven't met this Batman yet. I've never, ever been one to harp on the idea of "That's not how Superman/Batman/etc. should be!", since characters that are around long enough get done and redone in different ways over and over again, so the idea that so-and-so "has" to be a certain way has never really clicked with me, but again, the key here isn't "Batman is too different", it's "we're deconstructing Batman without having constructed him, first", which strikes me as a strange, strange way to approach a narrative.
It ended up hurting Suicide Squad, too; a key of that movie is the concept of abuse of control, and brings out the reality that even the nominal "good guys" (in this case the military, government, and law enforcement) are not necessarily good, that bad are not always evil, etc., but we're already in some deep dark universe, here, so it's not really anything revelatory or interesting like it might have been.
Anyway, yeah, WB's lust to catch up with Disney and Marvel so quickly was such a clear central problem with the DCEU from the get-go; just imagine a DC movie universe that takes its time and nurtures and develops what distinguishes DC from Marvel (no point in just trying to play the same exact game, right?) and how that might've gone. For example, one area I've always felt DC outdoes Marvel is its villains; imagine if instead of rushing to get to Darkseid, they took the time to build the rogues gallery up over numerous films, only to eventually build towards a war with the New Gods and give a live action version of the Destroyer episode of Justice League Unlimited, where the heroes and villains end up having to team to destroy the biggest possible threat.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 11, 2020 14:36:16 GMT -5
Yeah, a few things I've said pretty much since Man of Steel was released and Batman V Superman was announced was.
I don't mind Zod being killed in theory... I do have a problem with HOW he was killed and the situations around it.
This was Superman's first appearance not just to us... but in the universe we are telling so the story that was told is not...
"Wow this guy was so strong that Superman thought the only way to stop him was to kill him"
"It's holy shit this massively powerful guy in the blue tights f***ing kills people!"
and well not to mention the setup they had him in Clark had multiple ways to solve the problem he was currently in without murdering him.
And for that reason I've also said you can't use Zod as your first villain since his entire point is... "What if Superman wasn't a good guy that wanted to lift us up but instead wanted to rule us?"
Which is not really a question that works when Superman isn't established.
and you can't do The Dark Knight Returns... in a universe where the Dark Knight doesn't f***ing exist.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 11, 2020 15:03:18 GMT -5
If I had to establish a DC Universe and had to use Superman for it (who damn sure wouldn't be my first choice to build the universe around - he works best as an already established presence in the world), I'd probably go with a Luthor / Metallo team-up for the first movie with Metallo as the big danger of it.
Few benefits to that - he's a very direct threat to Superman who can hang with him without actually having to go too heavy on the spectacle early on, you establish both Luthor's threat level and the Kryptonite weakness right off the bat, and it keeps the focus of the store more grounded on earth so that right off the bat so that you have proper time to set everything up instead of diving heavily into all the space stuff right off the bat and you don't need to bring up Krypton that much. ... This, "Keep the focus on Earth to start with, work your way up," viewpoint is also why I'd probably be bare minimum ten movies in before trying to do anything whatsoever with Green Lantern given the sheer amount of mythology you need to establish with them.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 11, 2020 16:33:06 GMT -5
If I had to establish a DC Universe and had to use Superman for it (who damn sure wouldn't be my first choice to build the universe around - he works best as an already established presence in the world), I'd probably go with a Luthor / Metallo team-up for the first movie with Metallo as the big danger of it. Few benefits to that - he's a very direct threat to Superman who can hang with him without actually having to go too heavy on the spectacle early on, you establish both Luthor's threat level and the Kryptonite weakness right off the bat, and it keeps the focus of the store more grounded on earth so that right off the bat so that you have proper time to set everything up instead of diving heavily into all the space stuff right off the bat and you don't need to bring up Krypton that much. ... This, "Keep the focus on Earth to start with, work your way up," viewpoint is also why I'd probably be bare minimum ten movies in before trying to do anything whatsoever with Green Lantern given the sheer amount of mythology you need to establish with them. Hell, they couldn't have gone wrong with the Smallville approach Have Luthor be a friend to Clark and gradually get more manic as you get to the next movie and his Superman obsession taking over him
|
|
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on May 11, 2020 16:35:18 GMT -5
and you can't do The Dark Knight Returns... in a universe where the Dark Knight doesn't f***ing exist. The obsession with The Dark Knight Returns is so obnoxious. It's a good comic, we f***ing get it. It's also ONE good comic based on a character with HUNDREDS of good stories. If one says name a Batman story, and your only answer is TDKR, you're the most basic of basic bitches.
|
|
|
Post by IgnahtaSempria on May 11, 2020 16:35:48 GMT -5
Assuming you never go on twitter then. Which... smart. But the Snyder cultists are all over there. Hell anyone talks about the DCEU in less than glowing reviews get dogpiled on by them. Or Facebook. Every time I see a Snyder-related article, the highest rated comments are always about how "misunderstood" Snyder's vision was.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 11, 2020 16:38:15 GMT -5
This has gone away from the original source of Suicide Squad and turning into a DCEU is dumb and so is Snyder thing... so we should probably go back to the topic... Assuming you never go on twitter then. Which... smart. But the Snyder cultists are all over there. Hell anyone talks about the DCEU in less than glowing reviews get dogpiled on by them. Or Facebook. Every time I see a Snyder-related article, the highest rated comments are always about how "misunderstood" Snyder's vision was. which as I've said a few times is laughable because... Snyder's take is about as deep as foot bath.
|
|
|
Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 11, 2020 16:40:01 GMT -5
This has gone away from the original source of Suicide Squad and turning into a DCEU is dumb and so is Snyder thing... so we should probably go back to the topic... Or Facebook. Every time I see a Snyder-related article, the highest rated comments are always about how "misunderstood" Snyder's vision was. which as I've said a few times is laughable because... Snyder's take is about as deep as foot bath. Yea, got a Snyder thread for that already But back to Leto/Ayer, the movie itself was fine with or without Joker. They could continued in that direction with minor tweaks and just act like the other shit didn't happen
|
|
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on May 11, 2020 16:41:18 GMT -5
If I had to establish a DC Universe and had to use Superman for it (who damn sure wouldn't be my first choice to build the universe around - he works best as an already established presence in the world), I'd probably go with a Luthor / Metallo team-up for the first movie with Metallo as the big danger of it. Few benefits to that - he's a very direct threat to Superman who can hang with him without actually having to go too heavy on the spectacle early on, you establish both Luthor's threat level and the Kryptonite weakness right off the bat, and it keeps the focus of the store more grounded on earth so that right off the bat so that you have proper time to set everything up instead of diving heavily into all the space stuff right off the bat and you don't need to bring up Krypton that much. ... This, "Keep the focus on Earth to start with, work your way up," viewpoint is also why I'd probably be bare minimum ten movies in before trying to do anything whatsoever with Green Lantern given the sheer amount of mythology you need to establish with them. I wouldn't center the franchise on a single character. I would at this point have the original seven Justice League heroes coming up, not quite at their starting points, but also not looking to do six or seven origin movies either. You want an excellent entry point hero? Dick Grayson is right there. You can age him up a little bit, he doesn't have to be eight.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 11, 2020 16:45:59 GMT -5
Joker was really not necessary in Suicide Squad.
Enchantress is not even really a threat that the Squad was designed to deal with... it's black ops team that does shit that gives them plausible deniability that hey... supervillains showed up... they're unpredictable.
They aren't the ones to stop global threats... that's what the Justice League is for...
Also I forget if this was just the trailer or if it was stated as why they were formed in the movie but the idea of what if Superman kidnapped the president... guy who can climb things, crazy woman with a bat/mallet, and guy who shoots things good... are pretty god damned useless in that situation.
I echo the statement of have them go deal with something in Khandaq ... maybe Queen Bee has taken over there... so they go in they over throw her and maybe even have a teaser for Black Adam in there... with statues... or Harley breaks something and as they leave you see a massive lightning storm in the distance.
|
|
|
Post by TWERKIN' MAGGLE on May 11, 2020 18:06:45 GMT -5
Also I forget if this was just the trailer or if it was stated as why they were formed in the movie but the idea of what if Superman kidnapped the president... guy who can climb things, crazy woman with a bat/mallet, and guy who shoots things good... are pretty god damned useless in that situation. Nah, the line is in the movie. It's part of Waller's pitch to greenlight the squad. And correct, there was no one on her team that was equipped to do anything remotely worse than tickle Superman. Unless Luthor told Waller about Kryptonite and she has enough to create an arsenal, which obviously wasn't touched on in the movie, she's got nothing but an empty promise. I suppose Enchantress was supposed to be her big play in a scenario where Superman goes rogue, and viewers in the know would know Superman is vulnerable to magic, but how the f*** would Waller know that? She wouldn't. She has nothing but a bunch of unstable people with bombs installed in their necks and one really good sniper who they could've just paid to do their dirty work.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 11, 2020 18:46:32 GMT -5
Also people seem pretty accepting at this point that MAGIC IS REAL.
|
|
|
Post by Kevin Hamilton on May 11, 2020 18:56:02 GMT -5
Waller being a complete idiot for having Enchantress be in the team and then being the very threat they have to take down doesn't make any sense. If she doesn't go rogue, there's no actual plot.
That's a script problem that no cut would fix.
|
|
|
Post by A Platypus Rave on May 11, 2020 19:01:13 GMT -5
Waller being a complete idiot for having Enchantress be in the team and then being the very threat they have to take down doesn't make any sense. If she doesn't go rogue, there's no actual plot. That's a script problem that no cut would fix. Yeah, and how does well we have a bomb in her head... really do anything to someone you are aware is a centuries old witch?
|
|