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Post by honsou on May 17, 2020 12:03:38 GMT -5
The weird part is that CZW has been putting up PPVs like this for years and people just noticed...Which I guess says a lot about how successful these PPVs have been.
CZW is an interesting case because every time they get any form of positive momentum they find a way to screw it up or end up in a situation where they lose their main event overnight.
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cjh
Hank Scorpio
Posts: 6,807
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Post by cjh on May 17, 2020 12:25:36 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand. DJ sold perfectly normal women’s wrestling matches to a third party who recontextualized them as something sexual for a prurient audience? Unless something was done to the matches themselves to make them more salacious, I’m not sure I see what the big deal is. The women involved were not consulted about this at any point. They had normal pro wrestling matches that are now being marketed after the fact as softcore porn.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 17, 2020 12:29:22 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand. DJ sold perfectly normal women’s wrestling matches to a third party who recontextualized them as something sexual for a prurient audience? Unless something was done to the matches themselves to make them more salacious, I’m not sure I see what the big deal is. The women involved were not consulted about this at any point. They had normal pro wrestling matches that are now being marketed after the fact as softcore porn. I understand that, and it is unseemly DJ didn’t ask. With that said I bet I could find all sorts of totally normal women’s matches on PornHub right now, not benefitting anyone but the people who uploaded them. I don’t think the performers are at all unaware of the fact that there’s a certain segment of the audience that watches just for this.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on May 17, 2020 13:27:06 GMT -5
I heard that same company bought footage from more wrestling leauges and are about to go after a new audience
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lucas_lee
Hank Scorpio
Heel turn is finished, now stripping away my personality
Posts: 6,973
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Post by lucas_lee on May 17, 2020 13:40:40 GMT -5
In summary; whine a lot about the state of wrestling. What's the new info contributing to him being a creep, though? A lot of people in wrestling whine about the state of it. They deleted the tweets but Addy Starr and Kat shown DMs from Elgin making unwanted advances on them repeatedly
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 17, 2020 15:18:11 GMT -5
I just want to make sure I understand. DJ sold perfectly normal women’s wrestling matches to a third party who recontextualized them as something sexual for a prurient audience? Unless something was done to the matches themselves to make them more salacious, I’m not sure I see what the big deal is. It's attaching the names of the performers to pornography. It's not like they were just put up on the same pay-per-view channels as other wrestling with the novelty of being all women. These were specifically being added to adult entertainment packages with the performers' names and likenesses.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 17, 2020 15:19:00 GMT -5
The women involved were not consulted about this at any point. They had normal pro wrestling matches that are now being marketed after the fact as softcore porn. I understand that, and it is unseemly DJ didn’t ask. With that said I bet I could find all sorts of totally normal women’s matches on PornHub right now, not benefitting anyone but the people who uploaded them. I don’t think the performers are at all unaware of the fact that there’s a certain segment of the audience that watches just for this. What's your point?
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 17, 2020 15:31:20 GMT -5
I understand that, and it is unseemly DJ didn’t ask. With that said I bet I could find all sorts of totally normal women’s matches on PornHub right now, not benefitting anyone but the people who uploaded them. I don’t think the performers are at all unaware of the fact that there’s a certain segment of the audience that watches just for this. What's your point? That I’m not sure what LuFisto is so upset about given that she’s probably well aware some of the audience for her matches is dudes who like, REALLY like watching her wrestle.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 17, 2020 15:34:58 GMT -5
That I’m not sure what LuFisto is so upset about given that she’s probably well aware some of the audience for her matches is dudes who like, REALLY like watching her wrestle. She's upset that her name and likeness is non-consensually being used to sell pornography. Imagine if the place you worked at sold security cam footage of you to a third party and they released it on an adult pay-per-view channel with your face and name on it as a specialty porn without consulting you in any way.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 17, 2020 15:38:01 GMT -5
That I’m not sure what LuFisto is so upset about given that she’s probably well aware some of the audience for her matches is dudes who like, REALLY like watching her wrestle. She's upset that her name and likeness is non-consensually being used to sell pornography. Imagine if the place you worked at sold security cam footage of you to a third party and they released it on an adult pay-per-view channel with your face and name on it as a specialty porn without consulting you in any way. Except that isn’t at all a comparable situation. It’d be more like I already worked in an athletic occupation where my body got shown off for a camera every time I clocked in. And some amateurs had filmed me working and put it up out of context on PornHub. And when my boss hit a tough spot, he sold the footage to a third party who used the exact same stuff but put a new title on it. Sorry. I’m just not seeing it.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 17, 2020 15:47:12 GMT -5
She's upset that her name and likeness is non-consensually being used to sell pornography. Imagine if the place you worked at sold security cam footage of you to a third party and they released it on an adult pay-per-view channel with your face and name on it as a specialty porn without consulting you in any way. Except that isn’t at all a comparable situation. It’d be more like I already worked in an athletic occupation where my body got shown off for a camera every time I clocked in. And some amateurs had filmed me working and put it up out of context on PornHub. And when my boss hit a tough spot, he sold the footage to a third party who used the exact same stuff but put a new title on it. Sorry. I’m just not seeing it. First of all, these performers aren't ok with their matching being on PornHub either, so that's in no way some sort of "gotcha!" Even so, an anonymous user posts a match that's clearly just a rip of a match to PornHub and then that's really it. It's a wrestling match on PornHub. That's very different from a company taking matches and actively promoting that they're selling them on a national platform as pornography using the name and likenesses of the people involved. Consent comes down to having control over one's own choices with sexuality and their sexual being. Outside the disrespect of the objectification of their craft, the core issue is that footage of them is being used without their consent as a commercially advertised and sold work of erotica. Have you actually looked up the advertisements and promos for it? And the channels it's being made available through?
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 17, 2020 15:50:15 GMT -5
The women involved were not consulted about this at any point. They had normal pro wrestling matches that are now being marketed after the fact as softcore porn. I understand that, and it is unseemly DJ didn’t ask. With that said I bet I could find all sorts of totally normal women’s matches on PornHub right now, not benefitting anyone but the people who uploaded them. I don’t think the performers are at all unaware of the fact that there’s a certain segment of the audience that watches just for this. A third party reupload of something to PornHub isn't the same thing; that's a copyright violation from third party. In this case, we have the footage from its official source being licensed out to be marketed as pornography. That runs amok of a few very important things. One is of reputation; these women did not consent to be marketed in softcore pornography and to a viewer there is no immediate way to discern that this is being remarketed, so people can come across these things, believe them to be porn, and that can lead to damage to one's reputation. Also, the big matter of contracts. Stock image/footage websites have specific terms on the footage they then sell back to clients, and there's contractual specifications about being able to repurpose, sell, or edit that material as intended. I just have a weird feeling CZW doesn't have that rigidly set up a contract to make that usable in that way. That opens up a big problem legally where this isn't actually allowable or okay. You can't stop people from havign exual thoughts about you. But that's not in any way on the same level of someone portraying what you do as pornography to make a profit. The example you lost isn't really an argument against it beign bad; it's an argument in many ways for it being bad. It happened to you and you had n osay in t. That's a bad thing. It may not bother you personally, but that doesn't invalidate her own problems.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 17, 2020 16:04:50 GMT -5
Except that isn’t at all a comparable situation. It’d be more like I already worked in an athletic occupation where my body got shown off for a camera every time I clocked in. And some amateurs had filmed me working and put it up out of context on PornHub. And when my boss hit a tough spot, he sold the footage to a third party who used ju the exact same stuff but put a new title on it. Sorry. I’m just not seeing it. First of all, these performers aren't ok with their matching being on PornHub either, so that's in no way some sort of "gotcha!" Even so, an anonymous user posts a match that's clearly just a rip of a match to PornHub and then that's really it. It's a wrestling match on PornHub. That's very different from a company taking matches and actively promoting that they're selling them on a national platform as pornography using the name and likenesses of the people involved. Consent comes down to having control over one's own choices with sexuality and their sexual being. Outside the disrespect of the objectification of their craft, the core issue is that footage of them is being used without their consent as a commercially advertised and sold work of erotica. Have you actually looked up the advertisements and promos for it? And the channels it's being made available through? Was able to find about a dozen Tessa Blanchard matches from different companies. Seems like it should be on them to enforce their copyright, correct? I’m not saying this isn’t creepy or anything but I very much doubt LuFisto is SHOCKED there are men with abnormal interest in her matches, or that some promoters would capitalize therein
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 17, 2020 16:31:05 GMT -5
First of all, these performers aren't ok with their matching being on PornHub either, so that's in no way some sort of "gotcha!" Even so, an anonymous user posts a match that's clearly just a rip of a match to PornHub and then that's really it. It's a wrestling match on PornHub. That's very different from a company taking matches and actively promoting that they're selling them on a national platform as pornography using the name and likenesses of the people involved. Consent comes down to having control over one's own choices with sexuality and their sexual being. Outside the disrespect of the objectification of their craft, the core issue is that footage of them is being used without their consent as a commercially advertised and sold work of erotica. Have you actually looked up the advertisements and promos for it? And the channels it's being made available through? Was able to find about a dozen Tessa Blanchard matches from different companies. Seems like it should be on them to enforce their copyright, correct? I’m not saying this isn’t creepy or anything but I very much doubt LuFisto is SHOCKED there are men with abnormal interest in her matches, or that some promoters would capitalize therein That's not the point of this at all. The issues isn't dudes are jacking off to her matches. That's never been the issue. That's never been an issue. The issue is that her face and likeness is being attached without her consent to pornography and promoted by a company with access to anyone with a cable provider. What about this aren't you getting?
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 17, 2020 16:39:03 GMT -5
Was able to find about a dozen Tessa Blanchard matches from different companies. Seems like it should be on them to enforce their copyright, correct? I’m not saying this isn’t creepy or anything but I very much doubt LuFisto is SHOCKED there are men with abnormal interest in her matches, or that some promoters would capitalize therein That's not the point of this at all. The issues isn't dudes are jacking off to her matches. That's never been the issue. That's never been an issue. The issue is that her face and likeness is being attached without her consent to pornography and promoted by a company with access to anyone with a cable provider. What about this aren't you getting? The outrage over matches people would JO to on free porn sites now turning up on pay porn sites.
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 17, 2020 17:17:09 GMT -5
That's not the point of this at all. The issues isn't dudes are jacking off to her matches. That's never been the issue. That's never been an issue. The issue is that her face and likeness is being attached without her consent to pornography and promoted by a company with access to anyone with a cable provider. What about this aren't you getting? The outrage over matches people would JO to on free porn sites now turning up on pay porn sites. So you aren't actually getting any of this, got it.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on May 17, 2020 17:22:21 GMT -5
The outrage over matches people would JO to on free porn sites now turning up on pay porn sites. So you aren't actually getting any of this, got it. Word. I feel like I’ve really tried to get what you’re saying, but you’re just beyond me.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
Better have my money when I come-a collect!
Posts: 28,269
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Post by chazraps on May 17, 2020 17:32:25 GMT -5
That's not the point of this at all. The issues isn't dudes are jacking off to her matches. That's never been the issue. That's never been an issue. The issue is that her face and likeness is being attached without her consent to pornography and promoted by a company with access to anyone with a cable provider. What about this aren't you getting? The outrage over matches people would JO to on free porn sites now turning up on pay porn sites. So you're completely missing the point still. This isn't about jacking off to matches. Let's try this again. The matches on those free porn sites are really no different than someone uploading matches to YouTube except they happen to be on the same platform as nude videos. Nobody reasonably thinks the women involved uploaded those matches themselves, Nobody would know they were there as there's no budget in promoting them as nobody's making profit off of it. The reason there's justifiable outrage is because it's not just "matches" on "pay porn sites," we're talking cable/satellite on-demand and streaming pay-per-view. There's an advertising budget behind promoting these re-edited compilations and they're being repacked as insinuating that the motivation behind their work is to actively participate in the production of pornography. By using the faces and names of the people involved, it's implying that they're doing/have done porn. Their names and faces are being promoted in the same manner and same circles as the predominant names/faces in the adult industry. Do you understand?
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metylerca
King Koopa
Loves Him Some Backstreet Boys.
Don't be alarmed.
Posts: 12,479
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Post by metylerca on May 17, 2020 17:37:16 GMT -5
The outrage over matches people would JO to on free porn sites now turning up on pay porn sites. So you're completely missing the point still. This isn't about jacking off to matches. Let's try this again. The matches on those free porn sites are really no different than someone uploading matches to YouTube except they happen to be on the same platform as nude videos. Nobody reasonably thinks the women involved uploaded those matches themselves, Nobody would know they were there as there's no budget in promoting them as nobody's making profit off of it. The reason there's justifiable outrage is because it's not just "matches" on "pay porn sites," we're talking cable/satellite on-demand and streaming pay-per-view. There's an advertising budget behind promoting these re-edited compilations and they're being repacked as insinuating that the motivation behind there work is to actively participate in the production of pornography. By using the faces and names of the people involved, it's implying that they're doing/have done porn. Their names and faces are being promoted in the same manner and same circles as the predominant names/faces in the adult industry. Do you understand? And if he doesn't get it after this, the TL;DR of it is: Someone is profiteering off their likeness and image under the pretenses of selling porno. The wrestlers aren't okay with this and didn't consent to it. Not consenting means not okay. This isn't okay.
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Post by froggyfrog on May 17, 2020 20:33:10 GMT -5
I am surprised czw is still a thing. Should have closed shop years ago DJ Hyde us such a detriment to that company. Once Zandig sold it to him things started to slowly go down hill. And now GCW is poised to get the market CZW once had Get? They already have it. Every CZW fan moved onto GCW years ago. It’s a shame, as someone who lives in the area they run itd be nice to have two viable options competing with each other.
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