|
Post by The Dark Order Inferno on Jan 23, 2021 17:56:21 GMT -5
Amusingly, she's like her father's adversaries, Luger and Sting. She, like Sting can be carried to a good match, hold her own with much better opponents, but she'll always look awkward while trying to work with lesser talents.
|
|
|
Post by dex on Jan 23, 2021 18:41:42 GMT -5
I remember an out of character interview she did a year or two back and she was talking about how she needed that win over Asuka before Wrestlemania 35 for her confidence. The feud with Becky was the first time in her career she had truly had to play second fiddle and constantly put someone else over. She was now in the position that Becky and Sasha were in 2016 when they had to lose all the big matches to Charlotte and she couldn't deal with it. Going 6 months without the title or being the center of attention got to her. For someone who has been involved in the business in some way her entire life it's a strange mindset to have. Sometimes you go through periods when you have to "slum it" in the midcard. You can't always be on top. I do think there's something about the hype she gets blown from people backstage or in her booking or on TV where she's called the greatest and it kind of gets into her head that she is and doesn't deserve to be where she is even for a brief second. I'm not saying she's Hogan levels or anything like that but stuff like that can really harm a women's division in the long term. Look at Tessa Blanchard's....entire career. Like, it's weirder when her Dad used to have matches with Eddie Guerrero and the like on Nitro and gave a lot to him even though at the time, he was in a higher position on the card. Eh Tessa's problem was never really not selling for people, or not letting others look good . Tessa was/is really good at making mediocre or worse talents look better than than they actually were. Case in point her matches with Allie/ Cherry Bomb. She even sold well for enhancement talent www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-bigGMwK0www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF7EdxTzpS4Tessa's problems were/are almost entirely outside of the ring, Charlotte seems the exact opposite seemingly selfish inside the ring but people seem to like outside of it.
|
|
|
Post by eJm on Jan 23, 2021 18:43:45 GMT -5
I do think there's something about the hype she gets blown from people backstage or in her booking or on TV where she's called the greatest and it kind of gets into her head that she is and doesn't deserve to be where she is even for a brief second. I'm not saying she's Hogan levels or anything like that but stuff like that can really harm a women's division in the long term. Look at Tessa Blanchard's....entire career. Like, it's weirder when her Dad used to have matches with Eddie Guerrero and the like on Nitro and gave a lot to him even though at the time, he was in a higher position on the card. Eh Tessa's problem was never really not selling for people, or not letting others look good . Tessa was/is really good at making mediocre or worse talents look better than than they actually were. Case in point her matches with Allie/ Cherry Bomb. She even sold well for enhancement talent www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-bigGMwK0www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF7EdxTzpS4Tessa's problems were/are almost entirely outside of the ring, Charlotte seems the exact opposite seemingly selfish inside the ring but people seem to like outside of it. That's fair, I'll admit I did lack that sort of knowledge. It's even more weird considering they now completely in terms of what their problems were career-wise but, well, the backstage stuff matters more because I can't see Charlotte stropping out of a good contract and no showing shows because of it.
|
|
mistery
King Koopa
Posts: 11,348
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Jan 23, 2021 19:47:00 GMT -5
I do think there's something about the hype she gets blown from people backstage or in her booking or on TV where she's called the greatest and it kind of gets into her head that she is and doesn't deserve to be where she is even for a brief second. I'm not saying she's Hogan levels or anything like that but stuff like that can really harm a women's division in the long term. Look at Tessa Blanchard's....entire career. Like, it's weirder when her Dad used to have matches with Eddie Guerrero and the like on Nitro and gave a lot to him even though at the time, he was in a higher position on the card. Eh Tessa's problem was never really not selling for people, or not letting others look good . Tessa was/is really good at making mediocre or worse talents look better than than they actually were. Case in point her matches with Allie/ Cherry Bomb. She even sold well for enhancement talent www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-bigGMwK0www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF7EdxTzpS4Tessa's problems were/are almost entirely outside of the ring, Charlotte seems the exact opposite seemingly selfish inside the ring but people seem to like outside of it. I don't even think Charlotte is necessarily liked by everyone, or rather she doesn't like everyone. I remember Mark Henry on an episode of Busted Open Radio in 2019 talking about her problems with selling, and he had mentioned that he had heard talk backstage that Charlotte really did/does not like or respect Kairi Sane, but he didn't really understand why either. And the saddest part is, it's hard to disprove that rumor considering what happened at the end of 2019 when Charlotte just completely snapped and started shooting on Kairi at the TLC PPV. Which resulted in Kairi missing time, and was one of the reasons why she decided to move back to Japan (her words). And its hard to chalk that up to inexperience considering Dana Brooke had clearly noticed something was wrong on the watch-a-long. Asuka got stiff with Charlotte after it became clear Kairi was unable to compete (but Charlotte was still slapping/throwing her around and chasing her like a woman unhinged with a steel chair), and Becky looked pissed and absolutely miserable after the show was over. I remember a fan posting a picture of her sitting on the steel steps, looking like she was on the verge of crying.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Jan 23, 2021 20:54:18 GMT -5
Eh Tessa's problem was never really not selling for people, or not letting others look good . Tessa was/is really good at making mediocre or worse talents look better than than they actually were. Case in point her matches with Allie/ Cherry Bomb. She even sold well for enhancement talent www.youtube.com/watch?v=oh-bigGMwK0www.youtube.com/watch?v=GF7EdxTzpS4Tessa's problems were/are almost entirely outside of the ring, Charlotte seems the exact opposite seemingly selfish inside the ring but people seem to like outside of it. I don't even think Charlotte is necessarily liked by everyone, or rather she doesn't like everyone. I remember Mark Henry on an episode of Busted Open Radio in 2019 talking about her problems with selling, and he had mentioned that he had heard talk backstage that Charlotte really did/does not like or respect Kairi Sane, but he didn't really understand why either. And the saddest part is, it's hard to disprove that rumor considering what happened at the end of 2019 when Charlotte just completely snapped and started shooting on Kairi at the TLC PPV. Which resulted in Kairi missing time, and was one of the reasons why she decided to move back to Japan (her words). And its hard to chalk that up to inexperience considering Dana Brooke had clearly noticed something was wrong on the watch-a-long. Asuka got stiff with Charlotte after it became clear Kairi was unable to compete (but Charlotte was still slapping/throwing her around and chasing her like a woman unhinged with a steel chair), and Becky looked pissed and absolutely miserable after the show was over. I remember a fan posting a picture of her sitting on the steel steps, looking like she was on the verge of crying. Almost everyone raves about Charlotte as a person.
|
|
|
Post by xxshoyuweeniexx on Jan 23, 2021 21:07:42 GMT -5
That no selling is super weird. Like even big dudes like Lesnar, Taker, Kane, Big Show, etc., sold for their opponents. Like, they didn't do HBK being petty at Summerslam to Hulk Hogan petty (which was super funny), but they sold like..logically. Even Hogan himself sold for people despite his bullshit.
Why she's just deciding to make everyone that's not a Horsewomen/Asuka/Bliss look like shit is just crazy. Like..did somebody tell her she was supposed to be Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg now?
|
|
Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
|
Post by Shark on Jan 23, 2021 21:21:07 GMT -5
I have said it already but what Charlotte is is quite literally the whole it bounces off of me and sticks to you and it ruins every single thing she does in the ring. I remember the first real time it bugged me was the 2019 womens rumble in that exchange with Kairi where Kairi throws just bombs at her and Charlotte could not even be assed to even just go down to even just 1 knee to sell Kairi's offence nope just brick walled her and then dropped Kairi in 2-3 chops It really has been a common thread through her career. I believe when she won the Divas title from Nikki Bella, Nikki worked over Charlotte's leg the whole match, but Charlotte used the Figure 8 to win with no issue. At the 2016 Rumble, Charlotte defended her title against Becky and after the match, Sasha showed up to lay her claim to a shot and put Charlotte in the Banks Statement and she was up, walking around not selling it at all a moment later. I honestly don't think this is something we can blame on her training. I can't see someone pulling her off to the side and told her to never sell for her opponents. I think it's more of an instincts thing. Watching those videos, that looks like Charlotte just not wanting to work with Ruby and Liv. Her body language was "I'm not giving you a damn thing."
|
|
|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jan 23, 2021 21:30:12 GMT -5
That no selling is super weird. Like even big dudes like Lesnar, Taker, Kane, Big Show, etc., sold for their opponents. Like, they didn't do HBK being petty at Summerslam to Hulk Hogan petty (which was super funny), but they sold like..logically. Even Hogan himself sold for people despite his bullshit. Why she's just deciding to make everyone that's not a Horsewomen/Asuka/Bliss look like shit is just crazy. Like..did somebody tell her she was supposed to be Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg now? There's just a lot of weirdness in general with Flair that I don't think we'll ever truly know about unless circumstances come to be that the likes of Becky Lynch or Bayley or Sasha Banks or Asuka or Rhea Ripley sever ties with WWE completely and "spill the tea" about anything she might have done behind the scenes to sway things in her favour. I'm being specific on that "sever ties" wording because I believe Kairi Sane is still on their books even though she moved back home and thus, if she has any tea to spill, she ain't spilling it yet. But it does feel like sometimes they're trying to give her "monster" booking. Like, she is bigger than most of the women there, but not so much so that she's got a big body like an Awesome Kong or a Nia Jax, nor is she significantly tall. Keep in mind, what I'm about to post are some selected billed heights and weights, sorted tallest to shortest (even though WWE never announce the weights with the women): Nia Jax: 6'0"/272 lbs Charlotte Flair: 5'10"/143 lbs Tamina: 5'9"/141 lbs Rhea Ripley: 5'7"/137 lbs Shayna Baszler: 5'6"/137 lbs Becky Lynch: 5'6"/135 lbs Bayley: 5'6"/119 lbs Sasha Banks: 5'5"/114 lbs Asuka: 5'3"/137 lbs Alexa Bliss: 5'1"/102 lbs Now, you notice that I posted Tamina, someone right at the arse-end of the roster. That is relevant because, she is someone who still gets "monster" booking in spite of her placement on the roster, yet it's not something that is often questioned. It's very possible that it's because Tamina is such a non-entity in the grander scheme of things, but it's possible that I might be missing those conversations. I know for a fact that people buy Rhea Ripley's "monster" booking.
|
|
|
Post by Savage Gambino on Jan 24, 2021 0:40:02 GMT -5
Can't tell if that's lack of motivation or selfishness but it's really, really bad in those clips. Like Ivelisse/Thunder Rosa bad. Like maybe it was a waste to only have her go back to developmental to derail the NXT Women's champion, instead of actually continue developing, bad.
|
|
|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 24, 2021 0:55:23 GMT -5
Even Hogan himself sold for people despite his bullshit. Why she's just deciding to make everyone that's not a Horsewomen/Asuka/Bliss look like shit is just crazy. Like..did somebody tell her she was supposed to be Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg now? Hogan's matches as a face relied on him selling. He's a big dude, and he would sell his ass off for smaller guys like Dibiase. That was what his matches were booked around, selling like crazy to get fans invested, and then losing their shit when he made his comeback. Hogan isn't nearly as popular if he doesn't sell. Warrior even sold, not great, but he sold. He had his get to the ropes and start shaking them to let the crowd know that the comeback was beginning.
|
|
|
Post by Cyno on Jan 24, 2021 1:01:31 GMT -5
Hulkamania-era Hogan was low-key one of the best sellers ever. That's what made the "Hulking Out" so iconic. It was like he tapped into some superpower on the brink of death.
|
|
Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby
Grimlock
Blanket burrito season is back, and I never left the blankets
Posts: 12,808
Member is Online
|
Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jan 24, 2021 1:37:04 GMT -5
Can't tell if that's lack of motivation or selfishness but it's really, really bad in those clips. Like Ivelisse/Thunder Rosa bad. Like maybe it was a waste to only have her go back to developmental to derail the NXT Women's champion, instead of actually continue developing, bad. Honestly, Charlotte in those clips makes Ivelisse look professional. She's not even no-selling in a way that makes herself look good, it just makes her opponents look terrible - I don't know if it's worse if that's intentional or a side effect of lack of effort.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2021 1:55:31 GMT -5
That no selling is super weird. Like even big dudes like Lesnar, Taker, Kane, Big Show, etc., sold for their opponents. Like, they didn't do HBK being petty at Summerslam to Hulk Hogan petty (which was super funny), but they sold like..logically. Even Hogan himself sold for people despite his bullshit. Why she's just deciding to make everyone that's not a Horsewomen/Asuka/Bliss look like shit is just crazy. Like..did somebody tell her she was supposed to be Ultimate Warrior or Goldberg now? There's just a lot of weirdness in general with Flair that I don't think we'll ever truly know about unless circumstances come to be that the likes of Becky Lynch or Bayley or Sasha Banks or Asuka or Rhea Ripley sever ties with WWE completely and "spill the tea" about anything she might have done behind the scenes to sway things in her favour. I'm being specific on that "sever ties" wording because I believe Kairi Sane is still on their books even though she moved back home and thus, if she has any tea to spill, she ain't spilling it yet. But it does feel like sometimes they're trying to give her "monster" booking. Like, she is bigger than most of the women there, but not so much so that she's got a big body like an Awesome Kong or a Nia Jax, nor is she significantly tall. Keep in mind, what I'm about to post are some selected billed heights and weights, sorted tallest to shortest (even though WWE never announce the weights with the women): Nia Jax: 6'0"/272 lbs Charlotte Flair: 5'10"/143 lbs Tamina: 5'9"/141 lbs Rhea Ripley: 5'7"/137 lbs Shayna Baszler: 5'6"/137 lbs Becky Lynch: 5'6"/135 lbs Bayley: 5'6"/119 lbs Sasha Banks: 5'5"/114 lbs Asuka: 5'3"/137 lbs Alexa Bliss: 5'1"/102 lbs Now, you notice that I posted Tamina, someone right at the arse-end of the roster. That is relevant because, she is someone who still gets "monster" booking in spite of her placement on the roster, yet it's not something that is often questioned. It's very possible that it's because Tamina is such a non-entity in the grander scheme of things, but it's possible that I might be missing those conversations. I know for a fact that people buy Rhea Ripley's "monster" booking. I admittedly am not a huge Rhea fan but even I aknowledge Rhea is a great seller she made an already beastly Io look like even more of a killer just due to her selling in their 1 on 1 title match and it is largely because she did not just f***ing rag doll back against Io she sold Io's offence like it meant something and not just some minor inconvenience.
|
|
Shark
Hank Scorpio
The world's only Samurai Ninja Pirate
Posts: 7,045
|
Post by Shark on Jan 24, 2021 3:53:50 GMT -5
Like Ivelisse/Thunder Rosa bad. Like maybe it was a waste to only have her go back to developmental to derail the NXT Women's champion, instead of actually continue developing, bad. Honestly, Charlotte in those clips makes Ivelisse look professional. She's not even no-selling in a way that makes herself look good, it just makes her opponents look terrible - I don't know if it's worse if that's intentional or a side effect of lack of effort. Charlotte looked like she was mad that Liv tried to pin her. That's likely a planned sequence, but Charlotte wanted to get up and when Liv tried to, rightly, stick with the spot, Charlotte seemed to get mad and shrugged Liv off and got up faster.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 24, 2021 5:57:25 GMT -5
Can't tell if that's lack of motivation or selfishness but it's really, really bad in those clips. Like Ivelisse/Thunder Rosa bad. Like maybe it was a waste to only have her go back to developmental to derail the NXT Women's champion, instead of actually continue developing, bad. I really wish she had, because she literally has not improved since NXT, 6 years ago. The only things I've seen her add to her moveset are that stupid outside moonsault and that stupid twisting outside moonsault.
|
|
|
Post by Jedi-El of Tomorrow on Jan 24, 2021 7:49:29 GMT -5
There's just a lot of weirdness in general with Flair that I don't think we'll ever truly know about unless circumstances come to be that the likes of Becky Lynch or Bayley or Sasha Banks or Asuka or Rhea Ripley sever ties with WWE completely and "spill the tea" about anything she might have done behind the scenes to sway things in her favour. I'm being specific on that "sever ties" wording because I believe Kairi Sane is still on their books even though she moved back home and thus, if she has any tea to spill, she ain't spilling it yet. But it does feel like sometimes they're trying to give her "monster" booking. Like, she is bigger than most of the women there, but not so much so that she's got a big body like an Awesome Kong or a Nia Jax, nor is she significantly tall. Keep in mind, what I'm about to post are some selected billed heights and weights, sorted tallest to shortest (even though WWE never announce the weights with the women): Nia Jax: 6'0"/272 lbs Charlotte Flair: 5'10"/143 lbs Tamina: 5'9"/141 lbs Rhea Ripley: 5'7"/137 lbs Shayna Baszler: 5'6"/137 lbs Becky Lynch: 5'6"/135 lbs Bayley: 5'6"/119 lbs Sasha Banks: 5'5"/114 lbs Asuka: 5'3"/137 lbs Alexa Bliss: 5'1"/102 lbs Now, you notice that I posted Tamina, someone right at the arse-end of the roster. That is relevant because, she is someone who still gets "monster" booking in spite of her placement on the roster, yet it's not something that is often questioned. It's very possible that it's because Tamina is such a non-entity in the grander scheme of things, but it's possible that I might be missing those conversations. I know for a fact that people buy Rhea Ripley's "monster" booking. I admittedly am not a huge Rhea fan but even I aknowledge Rhea is a great seller she made an already beastly Io look like even more of a killer just due to her selling in their 1 on 1 title match and it is largely because she did not just f***ing rag doll back against Io she sold Io's offence like it meant something and not just some minor inconvenience. Rhea's worked with Kacy Catanzaro, and made her look like a threat. Even in their NXT UK squash match, there was a moment when Kacy caught Rhea with a small package, and it was a near fall. Contrast that with Charlotte kicking out at 1. Kacy's the size of a bug, and Rhea makes her look like a threat, and works perfectly with her. Size isn't an issue. Lacey Evans isn't exactly small, and she and Charlotte have negative chemistry. Lacey's had decent matches against Becky (the feud may have went too long, but the matches were a lot better than expected), Nattie, and Bayley.
|
|
|
Post by cornettesracket on Jan 24, 2021 10:21:59 GMT -5
Her performance last night was really bad again. You even have Corey on commentary talking about "the Riott Squad offense having little effect on The Queen." She's powering out of every pinfall attempt at one, you can't even call them near-falls. At one point Ruby and Liv hit a cool double spinebuster type move and Charlotte literally goes to stand immediately. Liv has to push her back down to go for the pin to get another one count then Charlotte hulks up and takes out the two of them with ease. I can't say I noticed this too much until a few months ago when I saw it mentioned but now that I know it happens it's impossible to watch her matches and not focus on it. She doesn't sell for shit in 90% of matches. I mean even the road warriors sold when it was the right time. It’s a shame that for all her obvious talent she has some shortcomings as I pointed out in an earlier post about the match at TLC when Becky and asuka recognised something was up and switched gears. It doesn’t show great ring awareness when she’s trying to get a far smaller wrestler up for a powerbomb and it’s not working and Charlotte carries on regardless. She even slaps kairi which was poor form.
|
|
Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,833
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub H on Jan 24, 2021 10:33:19 GMT -5
Like Ivelisse/Thunder Rosa bad. Like maybe it was a waste to only have her go back to developmental to derail the NXT Women's champion, instead of actually continue developing, bad. I really wish she had, because she literally has not improved since NXT, 6 years ago. The only things I've seen her add to her moveset are that stupid outside moonsault and that stupid twisting outside moonsault. Which are easily the worst moves she has too,it actually.makes her moveset worse.
|
|
|
Post by cornettesracket on Jan 24, 2021 11:44:33 GMT -5
I really wish she had, because she literally has not improved since NXT, 6 years ago. The only things I've seen her add to her moveset are that stupid outside moonsault and that stupid twisting outside moonsault. Which are easily the worst moves she has too,it actually.makes her moveset worse. The move itself is okay. It’s the fact that she can never hit it even remotely right. I don’t want her hurting her opponent but surely there’s a happy medium from not landing fully on her opponent and missing badly.
|
|
|
Post by Alice Syndrome on Jan 24, 2021 12:05:33 GMT -5
I admittedly am not a huge Rhea fan but even I aknowledge Rhea is a great seller she made an already beastly Io look like even more of a killer just due to her selling in their 1 on 1 title match and it is largely because she did not just f***ing rag doll back against Io she sold Io's offence like it meant something and not just some minor inconvenience. Rhea's worked with Kacy Catanzaro, and made her look like a threat. Even in their NXT UK squash match, there was a moment when Kacy caught Rhea with a small package, and it was a near fall. Contrast that with Charlotte kicking out at 1. Kacy's the size of a bug, and Rhea makes her look like a threat, and works perfectly with her. Size isn't an issue. Lacey Evans isn't exactly small, and she and Charlotte have negative chemistry. Lacey's had decent matches against Becky (the feud may have went too long, but the matches were a lot better than expected), Nattie, and Bayley. I don't know exactly how to describe it, but Rhea carries herself like she's 6'0, and Charlotte carries herself like she's 5'6, if that makes sense at all.
|
|