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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 6, 2021 18:04:20 GMT -5
I dunno... To my uneducated barely informed eyes. This has the stink of 'Ghostbusters 2016 school of criticism deflection' written all over it. You know what I mean. The "Oh you don't like this? Well you must be anti-X then." I hope that's not the case, but I'm not gonna hold my breath either. That's all I'm gonna say because I do not need another banning after the last time I got involved in this kinda argument. The difference is with Ghostbusters 2016 it was the director and studio pushing the "If you don't support this movie you must hate women" narrative. This is literally chuds on the Internet screaming "How dare you make Superman black!" For all the faults at Warner Bros., they're simply following the money. In contrary to the "get woke, go broke" mantra trolls love to mindlessly repeat, studies have repeatedly found that movies with diverse casts make more money. Given their most recent attempt at Superman has failed badly, though through no fault of the actor, appealing to a more diverse market is a sound strategy.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 6, 2021 18:10:28 GMT -5
I’m totally on board for a Black Superman movie, I have no interest in a Superman who happens to be Black story. The movie still starts with young Clark Kent (or Calvin Ellis or whatever they want) and still ends with the Truth and Justice Superman, but the journey in between has so much potential.
Black child raised by white parents in Kansas becoming the superhero of America is a story I wanna see
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on May 6, 2021 18:14:36 GMT -5
If the choice is between get a Superman that looks 100% comics accurate and seems like he doesn't actually seem to care about anything... or a Superman that actually acts like Superman but looks nothing like Clark in the books....
I'd go for the one that acts like the character every time.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on May 6, 2021 20:10:32 GMT -5
I dunno... To my uneducated barely informed eyes. This has the stink of 'Ghostbusters 2016 school of criticism deflection' written all over it. You know what I mean. The "Oh you don't like this? Well you must be anti-X then." I hope that's not the case, but I'm not gonna hold my breath either. That's all I'm gonna say because I do not need another banning after the last time I got involved in this kinda argument. The difference is with Ghostbusters 2016 it was the director and studio pushing the "If you don't support this movie you must hate women" narrative. This is literally chuds on the Internet screaming "How dare you make Superman black!" For all the faults at Warner Bros., they're simply following the money. In contrary to the "get woke, go broke" mantra trolls love to mindlessly repeat, studies have repeatedly found that movies with diverse casts make more money. Given their most recent attempt at Superman has failed badly, though through no fault of the actor, appealing to a more diverse market is a sound strategy. But diversity can be done by using anyone from the wide variety of DC characters available to them. There's many POC heroes that the mainstream audience could become familiar with. Cyborg I admit may be a bit toxic given Fisher's antics, as I said. But there's the likes of John Stewart, the Jason Rusch Firestorm, maybe a DCEU Black Lightning? Is the Shaq stank off of Steel yet? Part of the appeal of the MCU is NOT just their ability to make a universe of movies (and TV shows) but their ability to get any obscure characters over with casual moviegoers. DC needs to have confidence that this can be possible with them too. Changing the race of a long-established character on the other hand seems, well, lazy, and done just to get the buzz. (Calvin, however, would work and would help build the DC Cinematic Multiverse they seem to want)
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Mochi Lone Wolf
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Development through Destruction.
Posts: 24,153
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Post by Mochi Lone Wolf on May 6, 2021 20:38:30 GMT -5
It’ll start strong, then end in the most pathetic whimper ever.
Just like every other Abrams sponsored project outside The Leftovers.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on May 6, 2021 20:44:55 GMT -5
But diversity can be done by using anyone from the wide variety of DC characters available to them. There's many POC heroes that the mainstream audience could become familiar with. Cyborg I admit may be a bit toxic given Fisher's antics, as I said. But there's the likes of John Stewart, the Jason Rusch Firestorm, maybe a DCEU Black Lightning? Is the Shaq stank off of Steel yet? Part of the appeal of the MCU is NOT just their ability to make a universe of movies (and TV shows) but their ability to get any obscure characters over with casual moviegoers. DC needs to have confidence that this can be possible with them too. Changing the race of a long-established character on the other hand seems, well, lazy, and done just to get the buzz. (Calvin, however, would work and would help build the DC Cinematic Multiverse they seem to want) I agree that merely race-swapping Clark Kent is lazy as f***, but at this point the entire DC brand is damaged goods and there's probably very little confidence that they'll be able to get some more obscure characters over, so just going with what they probably see is a quick and easy way to distance it from what came before while generating a lot of buzz and appealing to a new demographic has a certain logic to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 6, 2021 22:12:39 GMT -5
I'm shocked that between the hate Star Trek and Star Wars fans both have for him, there aren't more Bad Reboot jokes, I mean, they're out there but it's like the company set themselves up for it. I just read Abrams is also making a non Matt Ryan Constantine reboot, as if that's something people wanted lol.
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Post by thechase on May 28, 2021 9:29:17 GMT -5
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 28, 2021 10:13:51 GMT -5
But diversity can be done by using anyone from the wide variety of DC characters available to them. There's many POC heroes that the mainstream audience could become familiar with. Cyborg I admit may be a bit toxic given Fisher's antics, as I said. But there's the likes of John Stewart, the Jason Rusch Firestorm, maybe a DCEU Black Lightning? Is the Shaq stank off of Steel yet? Part of the appeal of the MCU is NOT just their ability to make a universe of movies (and TV shows) but their ability to get any obscure characters over with casual moviegoers. DC needs to have confidence that this can be possible with them too. Changing the race of a long-established character on the other hand seems, well, lazy, and done just to get the buzz. (Calvin, however, would work and would help build the DC Cinematic Multiverse they seem to want) I agree that merely race-swapping Clark Kent is lazy as f***, but at this point the entire DC brand is damaged goods and there's probably very little confidence that they'll be able to get some more obscure characters over, so just going with what they probably see is a quick and easy way to distance it from what came before while generating a lot of buzz and appealing to a new demographic has a certain logic to it. Yeah, I don’t want the lazy “Superman who happens to be black” story. If they do this, I want the story of a black child raised by white parents in rural Kansas. I want to see the journey of how that young black man growing up in a Mayberry style town becomes the truth, justice, American Way Superman because that would likely be a VERY different story then the traditional Superman story. I get some of that was touched on in Falcon and Winter Soldier but a theatrical black Superman movie (franchise?) without the restrictions of MCU could really dive into that concept
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Post by thechase on Apr 25, 2022 1:45:05 GMT -5
Some new details on Coates' script twitter.com/TheComixKid/status/1518418828513841152{Spoiler}"1. while the project was originally intended to be a period piece, the final draft submitted by Coates recently is not a period piece
2. It's not about a black superman being a victim of racism, rather it uses Superman's alien heritage as a parallel to racism. They are, however going through with colorblind casting.
3. Superman is heavily nerfed, being taken back to his golden age roots. He can no longer fly, but he can instead "leap tall buildings in a single bound", He also lacks heat vision, frost breath and x-ray vision. He's also described as moving at Mach 7
4. They do have descriptions of the characters in the script which gives away their races. Lois Lane is written with an Asian Actress in mind Perry White is written as an African American man and Jimmy Olsen is described as a freckled redhead (no racebending with Jimmy)
5. The Film is currently utilizing The golden age version of The Ultra-Humanite as the main antagonist although this may change. At no point in the story does he use the Albino Gorilla body.
6. The script is rather long, clocking in at 165 pages. This may be due to the fact that the film is being written as an awards contender rather than a regular Superhero film. It portrays Superman as a champion of the opressed. The government hates him but the people love him.
7. The film is a love letter to Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's original comics. It also has a dedication to them. Pa Kent's character is based off of Jerry Siegel. It actually has a dedication to a lot of writers such as Jack Kirby, who serves as the inspiration for Dan Turpin."
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Apr 25, 2022 2:00:08 GMT -5
Lest we forget, Superman was potrayed by a mixed race actor in the 90s.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 25, 2022 2:01:32 GMT -5
kinda eh... on some of this.. some of it has promise but... {Spoiler} like depowering Superman seems like a dumb thing to do in general...
on the alien = racism thing it makes some sense but I could also see them being really heavy handed with it, but like that is basically one of the main things behind Lex's dislike of him... we'll see
Good to hear a villain that hasn't been done to death.
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Post by The Thread Barbi on Apr 25, 2022 2:06:18 GMT -5
kinda eh... on some of this.. some of it has promise but... {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler} like depowering Superman seems like a dumb thing to do in general...
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}
I dislike that trope so much. De-power a superhero and why not make an un-related movie about some other character?
I want to see Superman use his full powers
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 25, 2022 2:13:28 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}
I dislike that trope so much. De-power a superhero and why not make an un-related movie about some other character?
I want to see Superman use his full powers {Spoiler}{Spoiler}the no flight thing in general is likely going to confuse audiences since... Superman flying is basically like his key thing... yeah he didn't do it "originally" but... he's been doing it for way longer than he wasn't. By over 80 years...
it would almost be like making a Batman movie and not having Bruce's parents be dead... because they weren't dead in the original comics! because they didn't debut until 6 months after Batman was creataed.
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Post by Display Name on Apr 25, 2022 2:37:51 GMT -5
No flying Superman? Na, I’m good.
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Mozenrath
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Posts: 121,975
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 25, 2022 2:52:51 GMT -5
{Spoiler}{SPOILER: CLICK TO SHOW}I'm mostly of the opinion of, "This is never getting filmed", but if it does, I am not entirely against it since I sort of assume they'd go the route of "and then he gets the power of flight, which helps him save the day", that shtick, which, yeah, sure. I get the desire to dial Superman back a little to provide some grounding, even if it sounds like they are maybe going a little overboard with it. Still, there's basically zero chance he wouldn't be flying by the time of the end credits.
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No Longer a Produceman
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Posts: 4,413
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Post by No Longer a Produceman on Apr 25, 2022 3:00:28 GMT -5
Some new details on Coates' script {Spoiler}{Spoiler}"1. while the project was originally intended to be a period piece, the final draft submitted by Coates recently is not a period piece
2. It's not about a black superman being a victim of racism, rather it uses Superman's alien heritage as a parallel to racism. They are, however going through with colorblind casting.
3. Superman is heavily nerfed, being taken back to his golden age roots. He can no longer fly, but he can instead "leap tall buildings in a single bound", He also lacks heat vision, frost breath and x-ray vision. He's also described as moving at Mach 7
4. They do have descriptions of the characters in the script which gives away their races. Lois Lane is written with an Asian Actress in mind Perry White is written as an African American man and Jimmy Olsen is described as a freckled redhead (no racebending with Jimmy)
5. The Film is currently utilizing The golden age version of The Ultra-Humanite as the main antagonist although this may change. At no point in the story does he use the Albino Gorilla body.
6. The script is rather long, clocking in at 165 pages. This may be due to the fact that the film is being written as an awards contender rather than a regular Superhero film. It portrays Superman as a champion of the opressed. The government hates him but the people love him.
7. The film is a love letter to Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's original comics. It also has a dedication to them. Pa Kent's character is based off of Jerry Siegel. It actually has a dedication to a lot of writers such as Jack Kirby, who serves as the inspiration for Dan Turpin." Hard pass.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Apr 25, 2022 3:43:27 GMT -5
I'll tell you what this script needs!
No f***in' flying! Don't wanna see him in that suit! Giant spider in the third act!
This dude's alleged script sounds f***ing terrible and he shouldn't be allowed near another DC property ever again. He should be physically kept away from it.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 25, 2022 4:04:10 GMT -5
In general I'm very, "The golden and silver ages died for a reason, leave them dead," on things like this.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 25, 2022 4:08:48 GMT -5
In general I'm very, "The golden and silver ages died for a reason, leave them dead," on things like this. Generally, I largely feel the same, but I can see where it'd be attractive to make Superman not quite as ridiculous after the most recent incarnation of him is so powerful that his only obstacle is he's a libertarian who finds being a superhero tedious. It's out of hand as it stands, though if they wanted to tone it down, it'd be a lot better to go the Bruce Timm cartoon Superman approach to "buy war bonds" Superman approach. Like even Smallville wasn't that stripped down.
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