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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 25, 2022 4:22:10 GMT -5
In general I'm very, "The golden and silver ages died for a reason, leave them dead," on things like this. Generally, I largely feel the same, but I can see where it'd be attractive to make Superman not quite as ridiculous after the most recent incarnation of him is so powerful that his only obstacle is he's a libertarian who finds being a superhero tedious. It's out of hand as it stands, though if they wanted to tone it down, it'd be a lot better to go the Bruce Timm cartoon Superman approach to "buy war bonds" Superman approach. Like even Smallville wasn't that stripped down. Really I think if you want to nerf Superman you really just need to put him against some more earthly threats. Like Intergang, Livewire, Metallo, one of the more low-end depictions of Parasite, Toyman, any of those being portrayed as an actual threat would be enough to bring the character down a peg from usual theatrical depictions of him.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 25, 2022 5:02:59 GMT -5
One on hand, some of these ideas sound pretty interesting. It'd be nice to have a Superman that people aren't afraid of for once.
On the other hand, Ta-Nehisi Coates is a self-righteous and stuck-up jackass who made some absolutely garbage comments on 9/11 and I think he just generally sucks.
So I'm kinda split here.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Apr 25, 2022 6:22:33 GMT -5
*Mark Henry Plane Crash Gif*
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Apr 25, 2022 7:15:26 GMT -5
I have nothing against a black Superman, but everything else about this script sounds uninteresting. {Spoiler}Nerfing his power to Golden Age levels? Making it an overly long Oscar-bait movie? Yeah, hard pass to me. It might work if it actually was a period piece set in the 40's, but in a modern setting? No, it's not doing anything for me.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 25, 2022 7:57:23 GMT -5
Generally, I largely feel the same, but I can see where it'd be attractive to make Superman not quite as ridiculous after the most recent incarnation of him is so powerful that his only obstacle is he's a libertarian who finds being a superhero tedious. It's out of hand as it stands, though if they wanted to tone it down, it'd be a lot better to go the Bruce Timm cartoon Superman approach to "buy war bonds" Superman approach. Like even Smallville wasn't that stripped down. Really I think if you want to nerf Superman you really just need to put him against some more earthly threats. Like Intergang, Livewire, Metallo, one of the more low-end depictions of Parasite, Toyman, any of those being portrayed as an actual threat would be enough to bring the character down a peg from usual theatrical depictions of him. So in other words...make him more this level: Damn powerful, yes, but wasn't to Silver Age levels. Someone with the right weaponry and such could take him down if they worked at it (Kryptonite just becoming the EASIEST way). Alternatively, though this probably wouldn't work for a first movie, a magic based villain. Superman's powers have little to no defense against magic. It's one of the few good ideas from the Supergirl movie back in the day to make something different than the usual at the time. The no flying thing...come on, Superman's been flying since shortly after Billy Batson first said "SHAZAM". It's part of who he is now.
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Apr 25, 2022 8:13:35 GMT -5
Also, why use Ultra-Humanite as the villain but not have him in the albino gorilla body? Without the gorilla body he's just a second rate Lex Luthor. I mean, I don't particularly want Lex in the movie, but if the choice is between him and a blatant expy, then just use Lex.
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schma
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Post by schma on Apr 25, 2022 9:06:02 GMT -5
I'm surprised we got this far without a lens flare joke.
I'm always interested in alternate versions of heroes. I'm a giant comic nerd and sometimes the versions of characters in alternate universes present awesome takes or fresh ideas. I'll check this out when it hits.
As far as DC, I think a big part of why their movies largely aren't viewed well is because they have WB running things and WB doesn't believe in the properties. For the longest time they thought the only profitable things in DC were Batman and Superman. When they finally relented and made a Green Lantern movie, they took it as proof that they were right. Hell for years they insisted that a Wonder Woman movie was undoable (even when there was a great animated Wonder Woman movie right there). Marvel's success forced their hand but they still approach it from a backwards view. Part of Marvel's success is due to the fact that the people making the comics are involved with the movies, the people making the movies love the characters.
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Zone Was Wrong
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Apr 25, 2022 9:12:37 GMT -5
This movie sounds like so many steps back. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Shazam are proofs that more modern DC comic accurate/comic feeling movies can work. A lot of the younger audience is going to be confused as hell as well. The leap tall buildings in a single bound saying hasn't been a thing in decades.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Apr 25, 2022 9:31:24 GMT -5
This movie sounds like so many steps back. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Shazam are proofs that more modern DC comic accurate/comic feeling movies can work. A lot of the younger audience is going to be confused as hell as well. The leap tall buildings in a single bound saying hasn't been a thing in decades. Haven't heard that ever since The Fleischer Cartoons
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 25, 2022 9:36:27 GMT -5
This movie sounds like so many steps back. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Shazam are proofs that more modern DC comic accurate/comic feeling movies can work. A lot of the younger audience is going to be confused as hell as well. The leap tall buildings in a single bound saying hasn't been a thing in decades. Haven't heard that ever since The Fleischer Cartoons While "The Adventures of Superman" TV series was more recent than those toons, being made in the 50s compared to the toons of the 40s...I think this is the most recent example of it being used.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Apr 25, 2022 11:05:19 GMT -5
Some new details on Coates' script {Spoiler}{Spoiler}"1. while the project was originally intended to be a period piece, the final draft submitted by Coates recently is not a period piece
2. It's not about a black superman being a victim of racism, rather it uses Superman's alien heritage as a parallel to racism. They are, however going through with colorblind casting.
3. Superman is heavily nerfed, being taken back to his golden age roots. He can no longer fly, but he can instead "leap tall buildings in a single bound", He also lacks heat vision, frost breath and x-ray vision. He's also described as moving at Mach 7
4. They do have descriptions of the characters in the script which gives away their races. Lois Lane is written with an Asian Actress in mind Perry White is written as an African American man and Jimmy Olsen is described as a freckled redhead (no racebending with Jimmy)
5. The Film is currently utilizing The golden age version of The Ultra-Humanite as the main antagonist although this may change. At no point in the story does he use the Albino Gorilla body.
6. The script is rather long, clocking in at 165 pages. This may be due to the fact that the film is being written as an awards contender rather than a regular Superhero film. It portrays Superman as a champion of the opressed. The government hates him but the people love him.
7. The film is a love letter to Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's original comics. It also has a dedication to them. Pa Kent's character is based off of Jerry Siegel. It actually has a dedication to a lot of writers such as Jack Kirby, who serves as the inspiration for Dan Turpin." {Spoiler}You all covered the other stuff, but...
#6...gotta have someone distrusting Superman still, do we?
The thing is, in the comics, everyone trusts Supes. He is the beacon of hope, after all. That's what makes him different from Batman. Though WB has no idea how to address that.
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Post by WoodStoner1 on Apr 25, 2022 11:06:08 GMT -5
One on hand, some of these ideas sound pretty interesting. It'd be nice to have a Superman that people aren't afraid of for once. On the other hand, Ta-Nehisi Coates is a self-righteous and stuck-up jackass who made some absolutely garbage comments on 9/11 and I think he just generally sucks. So I'm kinda split here. Ezra Miller is still gonna headline a major film in a year. Stop looking to WB to be morally correct. (That and, well, rewarding a bunch of cyber bullies with the version of the movie they wanted)
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Apr 25, 2022 11:27:26 GMT -5
Some new details on Coates' script {Spoiler}{Spoiler}{Spoiler}"1. while the project was originally intended to be a period piece, the final draft submitted by Coates recently is not a period piece
2. It's not about a black superman being a victim of racism, rather it uses Superman's alien heritage as a parallel to racism. They are, however going through with colorblind casting.
3. Superman is heavily nerfed, being taken back to his golden age roots. He can no longer fly, but he can instead "leap tall buildings in a single bound", He also lacks heat vision, frost breath and x-ray vision. He's also described as moving at Mach 7
4. They do have descriptions of the characters in the script which gives away their races. Lois Lane is written with an Asian Actress in mind Perry White is written as an African American man and Jimmy Olsen is described as a freckled redhead (no racebending with Jimmy)
5. The Film is currently utilizing The golden age version of The Ultra-Humanite as the main antagonist although this may change. At no point in the story does he use the Albino Gorilla body.
6. The script is rather long, clocking in at 165 pages. This may be due to the fact that the film is being written as an awards contender rather than a regular Superhero film. It portrays Superman as a champion of the opressed. The government hates him but the people love him.
7. The film is a love letter to Jerry Siegel and Joe Shuster's original comics. It also has a dedication to them. Pa Kent's character is based off of Jerry Siegel. It actually has a dedication to a lot of writers such as Jack Kirby, who serves as the inspiration for Dan Turpin."
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Apr 25, 2022 12:14:58 GMT -5
Also, I should reiterate (within board rules) that this isn’t even me saying “OMG, Coates eats babies and he burned our crops, cancel forever”. Hr can have a point, it’s more that I don’t always like the way he goes about things all the time.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 25, 2022 13:14:00 GMT -5
This movie sounds like so many steps back. Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Shazam are proofs that more modern DC comic accurate/comic feeling movies can work. A lot of the younger audience is going to be confused as hell as well. The leap tall buildings in a single bound saying hasn't been a thing in decades. Most examples of the able to leap tall buildings thing was redundant because he could fly... there was only a 2 year period where he didn't fly. Literally the second episode of the Radio Program decided it was easier to just have him fly... and that was in 1940...
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 25, 2022 13:17:31 GMT -5
Really I think if you want to nerf Superman you really just need to put him against some more earthly threats. Like Intergang, Livewire, Metallo, one of the more low-end depictions of Parasite, Toyman, any of those being portrayed as an actual threat would be enough to bring the character down a peg from usual theatrical depictions of him. So in other words...make him more this level: Damn powerful, yes, but wasn't to Silver Age levels. Someone with the right weaponry and such could take him down if they worked at it (Kryptonite just becoming the EASIEST way). even then DCAU really didn't depower him THAT much... they did somewhat... but most of it was Supes pulling his punches cause he didn't want to turn people inside out >_> For the most part the best Superman stories aren't about punching things anyway.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 25, 2022 13:18:07 GMT -5
Hot take?
I don't mind any of this.
Look, I've said it before, DC has this wide history and wide amount of continuity and authors and such that they should be doing this stuff. The Marvel model is good and profitable but that's the Marvel model. If DC even do it right, that's still the Marvel model and people will say as much. Do your own stuff.
Have Coates write Superman. Give James Gunn, I don't know, Hawkman. Give Sam Raimi Swamp Thing. Just go out of the box with it and let the creativity be as part of the character lore as the lore itself is.
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CMWaters
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Post by CMWaters on Apr 25, 2022 13:27:27 GMT -5
So in other words...make him more this level: Damn powerful, yes, but wasn't to Silver Age levels. Someone with the right weaponry and such could take him down if they worked at it (Kryptonite just becoming the EASIEST way). even then DCAU really didn't depower him THAT much... they did somewhat... but most of it was Supes pulling his punches cause he didn't want to turn people inside out >_> For the most part the best Superman stories aren't about punching things anyway. Eh, I was going by some commentary on the first few episodes (unless I'm misremembering) about stuff like...when he had to save that plane in the first three-parter, he had to struggle pretty hard to get it to land (though later for the "World's Finest" crossover it's not as much a problem to him to move an airplane).
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Apr 25, 2022 13:34:52 GMT -5
even then DCAU really didn't depower him THAT much... they did somewhat... but most of it was Supes pulling his punches cause he didn't want to turn people inside out >_> For the most part the best Superman stories aren't about punching things anyway. Eh, I was going by some commentary on the first few episodes (unless I'm misremembering) about stuff like...when he had to save that plane in the first three-parter, he had to struggle pretty hard to get it to land (though later for the "World's Finest" crossover it's not as much a problem to him to move an airplane). That could be explained as him starting out being Superman and having never done something like that before
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Post by "Trickster Dogg" James Jesse on Apr 25, 2022 15:12:32 GMT -5
I want to see Superman mess up the day of some shady landlords.
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