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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 17, 2021 9:11:02 GMT -5
my gut feeling was Vince.... but after reading here what Fritz did the territory days were before my time As bad as he is Vince might not even be in the top 5 of scummiest promoters... probably top 100 if you count literally anyone running fly by night shindies as a promoter >_> And now I am interested to hear who comes between Fritz and Vince, and why. Tea, please!
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Post by Jaws the Shark on Mar 17, 2021 9:14:27 GMT -5
Bill Watts is the biggest scumbag. Arn Anderson, Eric Bischoff, and Jake Roberts have nothing but awful things to say about his tenure in WCW. Wrestlers in WCW signed hefty contracts. When Watts was hired, he would get a percentage of any money he saved WCW. Watts told the wrestlers: Either you renogiate your contracts for far less money or I'll job you out week after week. You'll get pinned cleanly in the middle of the ring. You'll get embarassed and your stock will drop. He also banned top rope moves so it effectively handcuffed wrestlers like Brian Pillman and Jushin Thunder Liger in their match-ups. As a booker, Watts' WCW run gets a bad rap, because for all the bad ideas he had - banning top rope moves, removing the mats from the floor - he did a halfway decent job of booking WCW, they had some pretty reasonable shows in mid/late 1992/early 1993.
Unfortunately as a businessman and a human being he's a honking great wanker; a racist, antisemitic, misogynistic and homophobic arsehole with some extremely questionable views on business and, well, life.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Mar 17, 2021 9:43:12 GMT -5
As bad as he is Vince might not even be in the top 5 of scummiest promoters... probably top 100 if you count literally anyone running fly by night shindies as a promoter >_> And now I am interested to hear who comes between Fritz and Vince, and why. Tea, please! I was just talking about in general wrestling I don't have too many names off the top of my head and some of them aren't from the Territory days as that was also like right before my time... Rob Black for instance comes up on most people's lists... if not for the trying to pay his employees with porn, allegedly. There was also the real life attack of the wrestler Messiah he was allegedly involved if not responsible for...
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 17, 2021 9:50:16 GMT -5
And now I am interested to hear who comes between Fritz and Vince, and why. Tea, please! I was just talking about in general wrestling I don't have too many names off the top of my head and some of them aren't from the Territory days as that was also like right before my time... Rob Black for instance comes up on most people's lists... if not for the trying to pay his employees with porn, allegedly. There was also the real life attack of the wrestler Messiah he was allegedly involved if not responsible for... Oh, without a doubt, if we go before and beyond the 80s. I of course will tell you for nothing that there's a lot of shady characters locally too. As we were reminded of a week or so ago with the Synergy Pro issue.
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Post by Tiger Millionaire on Mar 17, 2021 10:55:03 GMT -5
Such of Vince's shit falls under shady businessman rather than scummy/carny stuff.
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Post by hentery on Mar 17, 2021 18:58:50 GMT -5
And now I am interested to hear who comes between Fritz and Vince, and why. Tea, please! I was just talking about in general wrestling I don't have too many names off the top of my head and some of them aren't from the Territory days as that was also like right before my time... Rob Black for instance comes up on most people's lists... if not for the trying to pay his employees with porn, allegedly. There was also the real life attack of the wrestler Messiah he was allegedly involved if not responsible for... add Ian rotten and rob "lol I'll pretend u said 18" Feinstein
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Mar 17, 2021 20:43:27 GMT -5
Fritz gets the nod for pretty much exploiting his kids and their deaths.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Mar 17, 2021 20:54:35 GMT -5
I think it's a pretty big indictment of the wrestling business that famous POS Vincent K McMahon looks like a f***ing choir boy compared to most of his peers.
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chrom
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Post by chrom on Mar 17, 2021 21:05:30 GMT -5
Fritz Say whatever you want about Vince and the kiss my ass club. That does not compare to using your children’s death for your own benefit. You pushed your kids into an early grave and when one went down it was "next man up" When they came to tell him about David, his reaction was "which one was it?" without a care
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MolotovMocktail
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Mar 17, 2021 21:20:40 GMT -5
I assume we're only doing '80s. Otherwise Rob Black could fit in here. Rob Black is the one who I would put above Fritz, but if we're sticking to the territory era, Fritz takes it. From that era, maybe Nick Gulas. His son George may have been the most extreme example of nepotism in wrestling ever. "Daddy says lie down!" - in the middle of a match.
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nisidhe
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Post by nisidhe on Mar 17, 2021 21:23:36 GMT -5
Fritz has to be up there very specifically for what happened to his sons and for how he exploited it for sympathy and monetary gain. I'll give David's death a bit of a pass because Japanese authorities would have no reason to lie about some gaijin dying in a hotel room. The rest of it, though reeks of Fritz's narcissism.
I want to write in a ballot for Carlos Colon because of what happened to Bruiser Brody, but I think that was more business suicide given that Puerto Rico pretty died as a territory after that. Certainly, he had a very hard time getting non-Puerto Rican wrestlers to work his shows after that, and very few Puerto Rican wrestlers found success off the island for nearly 20 years after.
But Fritz has it far and away.
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Post by BorneAgain on Mar 17, 2021 21:35:20 GMT -5
More of a promoter than outright owner, but there are some pretty shady stories about Victor Quiñones that paint a very ugly picture of how he used his position.
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Post by Stone Coke Miami Watson 🥃 on Mar 18, 2021 0:03:41 GMT -5
Ztirf Nov Hcire
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Ultimo Gallos
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Post by Ultimo Gallos on Mar 18, 2021 3:04:45 GMT -5
And now I am interested to hear who comes between Fritz and Vince, and why. Tea, please! I was just talking about in general wrestling I don't have too many names off the top of my head and some of them aren't from the Territory days as that was also like right before my time... Rob Black for instance comes up on most people's lists... if not for the trying to pay his employees with porn, allegedly. There was also the real life attack of the wrestler Messiah he was allegedly involved if not responsible for... Back in 2012 first time I met Luke Hawx I asked him about Black paying wrestlers in porn "Yea after one event he told me I aint got your money but I can give you 500 bucks worth of porn. Told him Mother f***ER I can't feed my kid with copies of Airtight Grannies part 5." Out of the people listed I would have Fritz at 1 and Vince a close second.
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Post by toodarkmark on Mar 18, 2021 7:59:51 GMT -5
Fritz had a lot of hits in a small amount of time, and is the worst ever because of what he did to his family. He is the worst of all time with a smaller sample size.
But Vince Jr has been ruining lives for almost 40 years. Running people out of business gleefully, exploiting his workers, running his wrestlers so hard into early graves, promoting body types only achievable only through steroid use, covering for child molesters, suing people to silence them from speaking up against him, exploiting female workers into doing all sorts of sexually suggestive angles with him, often 30, 40 years younger then him, making billion dollar deals with bloody regimes, exploiting his wrestler's deaths, giving hundreds of millions of dollars to some questionable politicians, and honestly, he didn't push his two kids to the top? Shane and Stephanie had the coping skills to deal with the pressures of stardom, which the Von Erich kids did not, but hell if he didn't put his daughter in weird sexual angles and his son ended up leaving the company for years. Vince is one of the worst human beings in business history, and I've been practicing corporate law for a decade.
Its insulting to even put Crocket Jr, Jerry Jarrett or Verne Gagne in the same universe with Vince. Even if the cut off is 1990. He was already one of the worst people in wrestling history by then.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 18, 2021 8:46:40 GMT -5
I was just talking about in general wrestling I don't have too many names off the top of my head and some of them aren't from the Territory days as that was also like right before my time... Rob Black for instance comes up on most people's lists... if not for the trying to pay his employees with porn, allegedly. There was also the real life attack of the wrestler Messiah he was allegedly involved if not responsible for... add Ian rotten and rob "lol I'll pretend u said 18" Feinstein Thanks. I should have been thinking of Ian too. (yet he still runs shows, and RF Video is pretty much untouched. #KarmaHoudini) Can we mention Eric Simms for the "Vader Farewell Tour" stunt? Didn't he try to push something similar in Tracy Smothers' last months/weeks? I loved NWS, but must question when Dapper dressed one of his wrestlers like Golga and pushed him as an "original WWF oddity". But this was one show, and I think he changed it so that it was a tribute. Kinda like his Mortis/Kanyon knockoff. Can we count the indy wrestlers who dressed like Doink or Patriot and passed themselves off as the real deal? I must say, most of the other local guys here aren't carny to the wrestlers themselves, just colossal asses to fans and others.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 18, 2021 9:00:42 GMT -5
More of a promoter than outright owner, but there are some pretty shady stories about Victor Quiñones that paint a very ugly picture of how he used his position. And, not that it really impacts it, but the rumor that he was Gorilla Monsoon's illegitimate son.
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 18, 2021 10:30:22 GMT -5
Can we mention Eric Simms for the "Vader Farewell Tour" stunt? Didn't he try to push something similar in Tracy Smothers' last months/weeks? I have to defend Eric. I was in many different private situations with Eric at signings and matches. Eric is a top notch guy. He takes care of the wrestler like no other. He goes above and beyond. If there was a Vader farewell tour it was most likely Vader wanting to do one last signing run knowing his time was short. A lot of fans don't like Eric. And I get that-he's all about the money but the reason for that is, is because a lot of time he puts a lot if not all of his own money into bringing a wrestler to a signing or a match because the so called promoter has no guarantee he can pay the wrestler. Eric needs to hustle to make up that money and he can't deal with a fan just coming up wanting to talk and a lot of the fans only want to do that especially at smaller events. Buy a shoot interview if you want a bunch of questions answered or buy an autograph. But they think the price of admission entitles them to freebies. He needs the fan to buy a photo op or an autograph to make the trip worthwhile for him and the wrestler. Eric can come off as as a dick to fans but he has been in business for 30 years, has a lot of wrestlers who work only with him because they know how good a promoter is. I also don't think he did a Tracy farewell tour. It was just a reunion of the FBI that happened to coincide with Tracy being very ill. I don't think it was well known how bad off Tracy was. I think he just happened to be able to get the FBI all together for one signing. All three have worked with Eric and Tracy would probably so for years to come if he hadn't died, as will Nunzio and Tommy. When Eric does a signing he normally meets the wrestler in the area, drives them around to various tour spots, buys them meals and again, often fronts them money with no guarantee from the promoter. Eric is great. But Vince Jr has been ruining lives for almost 40 years. Running people out of business gleefully, exploiting his workers, running his wrestlers so hard into early graves, promoting body types only achievable only through steroid use, covering for child molesters, suing people to silence them from speaking up against him, exploiting female workers into doing all sorts of sexually suggestive angles with him, often 30, 40 years younger then him, making billion dollar deals with bloody regimes, exploiting his wrestler's deaths, giving hundreds of millions of dollars to some questionable politicians, and honestly, he didn't push his two kids to the top? Shane and Stephanie had the coping skills to deal with the pressures of stardom, which the Von Erich kids did not, but hell if he didn't put his daughter in weird sexual angles and his son ended up leaving the company for years. Vince is one of the worst human beings in business history, and I've been practicing corporate law for a decade. THIS! His business should have never made it to the year 2000. Heck, it maybe shouldn't even have made it to 1995 or even 1990. Martha Hart should own WWF after what happened to her husband and I hope before too long everything comes back to Vince that he has done to others. It will be great seeing him a sad old man like Bill Cosby in his mug shot.
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Post by James Fabiano on Mar 18, 2021 10:34:15 GMT -5
Can we mention Eric Simms for the "Vader Farewell Tour" stunt? Didn't he try to push something similar in Tracy Smothers' last months/weeks? I have to defend Eric. I was in many different private situations with Eric at signings and matches. Eric is a top notch guy. He takes care of the wrestler like no other. He goes above and beyond. If there was a Vader farewell tour it was most likely Vader wanting to do one last signing run knowing his time was short. A lot of fans don't like Eric. And I get that-he's all about the money but the reason for that is, is because a lot of time he puts a lot if not all of his own money into bringing a wrestler to a signing or a match because the so called promoter has no guarantee he can pay the wrestler. Eric needs to hustle to make up that money and he can't deal with a fan just coming up wanting to talk and a lot of the fans only want to do that especially at smaller events. Buy a shoot interview if you want a bunch of questions answered or buy an autograph. But they think the price of admission entitles them to freebies. He needs the fan to buy a photo op or an autograph to make the trip worthwhile for him and the wrestler. Eric can come off as as a dick to fans but he has been in business for 30 years, has a lot of wrestlers who work only with him because they know how good a promoter is. I also don't think he did a Tracy farewell tour. It was just a reunion of the FBI that happened to coincide with Tracy being very ill. I don't think it was well known how bad off Tracy was. I think he just happened to be able to get the FBI all together for one signing. All three have worked with Eric and Tracy would probably so for years to come if he hadn't died, as will Nunzio and Tommy. When Eric does a signing he normally meets the wrestler in the area, drives them around to various tour spots, buys them meals and again, often fronts them money with no guarantee from the promoter. Eric is great. Maybe I misunderstood some of the stories. Yeah there's a lot of agents and promoters who are much nastier too. Ironically, and here is one of my legit beefs with Eric, he allowed some of said nasty promoters to harass a fan I know on his Facebook. And this incident happened almost exactly 2 years ago. I don't know if the thread was erased either. I doubt it. Happened like the beginning of March of 2019, weekend of a show in Rahway. But...I think at this point I can admit that incident was my one real personal beef with Eric. Like I said, it's less about who's the nicest guys here, it's who's the less nasty. Even when someone seems fine, things happen (again, see: Synergy Pro incident). Dapper, for all the criticisms, was one of the few NJ promoters I never had personal heat with, nor my friends. BTW, as far as the second part of your post...good luck on that. Trust me, you'll have to wait a long time. There's loads of people who, as I said, are Karma Houdinis and it takes forever to wait for them to lose the magic key, it seems. This is why I am so adamant about informing people what goes on locally, though I do admit to overplaying my hand.
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Post by jason1980s on Mar 18, 2021 11:12:42 GMT -5
Yeah there's a lot of agents and promoters who are much nastier too. Ironically, and here is one of my legit beefs with Eric, he allowed some of said nasty promoters to harass a fan I know on his Facebook. And this incident happened almost exactly 2 years ago. I don't know if the thread was erased either. I doubt it. Happened like the beginning of March of 2019, weekend of a show in Rahway. I get that could be something that would turn you off of someone. I don't know what happened but I do know a lot of promoters have been fed up with fans trying to scam promoters or wrestlers so there may be a few of them that band together to try and protect each other. I'm not saying there is a good reason for what happened but based on all the time I spent with Eric and at wrestling conventions you can see that some fans really push it and it gets to the agents. Eric is very high strung, again based on reason I cited, so it may be possible that someone really did him dirty and he rolled with it and got other promoters to chime in.
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