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Post by Z-A Sandbaggin' Son of a b!%@h on Apr 15, 2021 15:50:33 GMT -5
Just went and looked up the tweet because didn’t have any idea about this... and kinda feel the racist thing is a stretch. Maybe she’s done other things in the past that justify people’s reactions to it. But in a vaccum it seemed harmless to me. However her follow up is also ignorant. Like dude. No reason to put out a full movie about it. I don’t know who would ever set through that
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 15, 2021 15:51:16 GMT -5
I have no horse in this race... I have watched several of Lindsay's video essays and found them generally well researched. I don't go around documenting every twitter drama in great detail... especially as honestly I really don't care. but from what I remember immediately after her deleting there were a number of tweets posted at the time showing off a lot of her really bad takes or just really awful things she said. One of which was a jokey tweet about if a movie about slave rape had Reylo like fanfic. Context is everything, though. The joke was that the movie seemed to be made to be geared to that kind of thing and she was horrified that it probably exists. If advise watching the video because if the only takes you have are from people deliberately casting her actions in the worst light just because they dislike her already or feel they deserve a pat on the back, you're not getting the whole story. And the kind of abuse she and her friends have been receiving over this is sickening. You're kind of coming off like you're defending the harassment and I'm not sure that's your intent but I thought I'd say that.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 15, 2021 15:52:32 GMT -5
Think her content is generally great, can't really weigh in on the tweets etc. ZERO desire to watch an over an hour and a half video about it
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 16:01:51 GMT -5
I have no horse in this race... I have watched several of Lindsay's video essays and found them generally well researched. I don't go around documenting every twitter drama in great detail... especially as honestly I really don't care. but from what I remember immediately after her deleting there were a number of tweets posted at the time showing off a lot of her really bad takes or just really awful things she said. One of which was a jokey tweet about if a movie about slave rape had Reylo like fanfic. See I'd suggest watching the video.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 15, 2021 16:07:36 GMT -5
I have no horse in this race... I have watched several of Lindsay's video essays and found them generally well researched. I don't go around documenting every twitter drama in great detail... especially as honestly I really don't care. but from what I remember immediately after her deleting there were a number of tweets posted at the time showing off a lot of her really bad takes or just really awful things she said. One of which was a jokey tweet about if a movie about slave rape had Reylo like fanfic. See I'd suggest watching the video. Way I see it it's basically like a real life version of what the guy is doing in the "Zack Morris is Trash" videos. But because it's real people it's not funny, it's just really scummy. I'm also going out on a limb and saying most of these people sending hateful comments to Lindsay and others don't actually give a shit about supposed racism and have just been looking for an excuse to go after her because she's a prominent feminist YouTuber.
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FinalGwen
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Posts: 16,434
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Post by FinalGwen on Apr 15, 2021 16:09:59 GMT -5
twitter.com/jourdayen/status/1382755669573574656This thread from Jourdain Searles suggests this doesn't come in a vacuum (and explains Kyle Kallgren's departure from the Chez Apocalypse crew), and makes me even less likely to sit through 2 hours of Ellis justifying herself.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 15, 2021 17:49:54 GMT -5
I mean...I reviewed Raya and the Last Dragon (watch it, it's so damn good and charming), and I did make Avatar: Last Airbender comparisons. www.freakinawesomenetwork.net/2021/03/how-raya-and-the-last-dragon-examines-the-pitfalls-of-viewing-people-as-the-other-a-review/Not to say that the writers unarguably took influence from the show, like the allegations that they took from Kimba from Lion King (there may have been Kimba fans at the studio, but YMS is right in saying the primary influence was Hamlet). And my comparisons were more rooted in how it balanced a kid-friendly sense of humor with compelling drama. I may not have the audience Linsday has, but I would hope that people wouldn't take my analogy in any sort of harmful context.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 15, 2021 17:50:03 GMT -5
The thing that always kills me about stuff like this is that no one really gets into the fact that people like Ellis are specifically and especially hated because they're seen as receiving lots of credit and approval. Because everyone's giving her "a cookie" for being "a good one," and people shouldn't praise someone so much just for not being awful! And how can we trust she's REALLY not awful if she gets REWARDED for being not awful? She could just be doing it out of selfishness. And if everyone thinks she's good, then any attacks are a courageous stand in favor of The Truth against armies of blindly loyal stans.
You can just SEE it with certain people. Like, I can't even imagine the number of tweeters who'd be gleefully, blindingly ecstatic if they stumbled upon some reason Lin-Manuel Miranda was a bad person.
Note: this is all completely orthogonal to whether or not the criticisms of the person are justified. Joss Whedon is case study #1 for this phenomenon, but that doesn't mean he's not ALSO a peice of shit. It just means that if he hadn't been a vocal feminist and out there getting praised for it, far fewer people would care so much he's a piece of shit.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Apr 15, 2021 18:22:16 GMT -5
For those curious. This is the tweet:
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 18:55:08 GMT -5
Wait, it's seriously an hour and 40 minutes? Pretty much so she can get that youtube ad revenue. Longer video tend to get more ads compare to short videos.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 15, 2021 19:00:14 GMT -5
YouTube drama is just kind of weird.
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Mozenrath
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 15, 2021 19:42:26 GMT -5
Ellis has people who didn't like her before, and after, this, but to say all of the criticism she got was in bad faith is horseshit.
She got called out for dismissing Raya as being like Avatar, which that's a point she could defend, sure, but she then said both were white-made to distance herself from the more unsavory elements of this criticism. It was brought to her attention that Raya has a number of Asian creatives behind it, and she responded to this by... wait, no, she actually ignored this entirely and barreled on. Uh-oh.
She then said what she said could be seen as racially insensitive "if you squint". I doubt she was being malicious, but holy shit. This woman writes for a living, and that didn't cross her mind for a moment a being a bad turn of phrase here?
She humble brags that her platform is big, so she shouldn't joke carelessly, which, sure, that does invite scrutiny, but it's beside the point. When Asian people call her out for being shitty about an Asian topic, this is where humility is supposed to kick in, not defiance.
She then sealed her fate with a "ONE MORE THING" tacked on post where she called people criticizing her "crazies". Like, if the defense is that the criticism was in bad faith, what the actual f*** is that? In what way is THAT an apology, or in good faith?
I feel like she has ran afoul of many misogynists or otherwise awful people in her time online. This was her being a proud jackass, though.
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Post by Limity (BLM) on Apr 15, 2021 20:03:41 GMT -5
YouTube drama is just kind of weird. It fascinates me. How there's a whole ecosystem of youtube channels built around reporting and documenting drama from other youtube channels and content creators.
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Post by lockedontarget on Apr 15, 2021 20:22:35 GMT -5
I watched the thing go down live and the truth is a large amount of the backlash she got was actually in genuine good faith. Plenty of POC fans and creators took the time to explain to her their feelings in a constructive manner.
We’re there people being dicks mixed in there? Sure, there always is. But the narrative of “Ellis got targeted by a hate campaign and was canceled!” is simply not what actually happened.
She made some observations that some felt were racially insensitive or misinformed, got backlash, then came back to explain her points better, but ended that explanation by calling everyone crazy, which earned a second round of backlash that led to her nuking her Twitter.
The majority of her critics weren’t calling for her head. She wasn’t “cancelled”.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 15, 2021 20:29:06 GMT -5
Didn’t Honest Trailers make the same joke as well?
I’ve never heard this person. Going to keep it that way.
My only question is is this longer or shorter than Joey Ryan’s video?
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cosmo
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Post by cosmo on Apr 15, 2021 20:53:04 GMT -5
For those curious. This is the tweet:
I don't see how this is racist. Or is it hella racist and I'm just dumb?
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 15, 2021 21:46:55 GMT -5
Video was pretty crafty idea though, it's on my homepage and in less than 12 hours it's gotten half a million views. Gotta be some decent ad revenue there.
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 15, 2021 22:18:36 GMT -5
For those curious. This is the tweet: I don't see how this is racist. Or is it hella racist and I'm just dumb?
It's not really racist but it can be taken as minimizing south east Asian narratives, both borrowed heavily from And assigning the design and set up of it to a show headed by two white dudes. That was what most of the good faith responses were objecting from my recollection. Also she did a follow up message that included "squint your eyes"... which when going into an explanation about how you arent minimizing Asians is probably a phrase you should avoid. edit: I will reiterate I am not pointing fingers at her, I don't know her personally and rather more importantly I'm not one of the group that could be affected by something like that so... it's not really my place to stand here and demand anything on their behalf.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Apr 15, 2021 22:36:16 GMT -5
For those curious. This is the tweet: I don't know who Lindsay Ellis is, but unless the definition of racism has changed dramatically .... how is this racist? I have never seen either of the two movies either, but I'm guessing they are similar--like most YA fiction has similar plots and rips off each other. It's a shame the people "cancelling" her for a tweet that isn't racist at all don't bother cancelling companies and people who actually deserve it---like any brand/company that removes references to Hong Kong or lists Taiwan as a province of China, or claims to oppose racism and displays BLM banners in stadiums and runs anti-racism campaigns and then gives a sports team a paltry $20,000 fine when it's fans are hurling abuse at black players and making monkey noises at them, or who shoots movies where there's a genocide taking place or gives homosexuals an easily-cuttable cameo in their movies so they can easily remove it for the Middle East market and then proudly asks for a pat on the back for being inclusive when they're actually doing the bare minimum, or claims to support BLM but then removes the black guy from the movie poster to better market the movie in more racist countries, or social media websites that openly allow racist content to be posted and don't remove it ... But nah, go after a youtuber for a tweet. Or a guy who went viral holding up a sign who donated a lot to charity because he made a racist post when he was 14 years old.
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Post by mrtuesday on Apr 16, 2021 1:36:28 GMT -5
When you make a 2 hour "apology" video. It doesn't come off as sincere.
She's making herself out to be a victim. She had a bad take that could be taken as racist, and was called out on it by people of color who tried to explain to her why it came off as racist. She then doubled down on it and deleted her Twitter.
Now here's this 2 hour video saying how cancel culture is bad. This isn't an apology. This is making it all about her. Getting ad revenue, plugging her Patreon, and plugging her book.
It didn't need to be 2 hours. It didn't even need to be 5 minutes. It could have been a tweet. The whole thing comes off as disingenuous.
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