Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 18, 2021 4:46:14 GMT -5
That Lindsay has had to divulge so much painful personal history because of this harassment is such a tragedy. Seeing people whose positions and politics I nominally agree with get whipped up into a bad faith frenzy is utterly disheartening.
The whole concept of keeping receipts for the explicit purpose of weaponising against someone you dont like is so morally abhorrent and so pervasive. Even in this little community I have seen users specifically discuss this tactic against former users. Its monstrous.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 18, 2021 7:28:13 GMT -5
That Lindsay has had to divulge so much painful personal history because of this harassment is such a tragedy. Seeing people whose positions and politics I nominally agree with get whipped up into a bad faith frenzy is utterly disheartening. The whole concept of keeping receipts for the explicit purpose of weaponising against someone you dont like is so morally abhorrent and so pervasive. Even in this little community I have seen users specifically discuss this tactic against former users. Its monstrous. hell that one shit head did it to James Gunn and we all condemned that so how the hell is this any different.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 18, 2021 8:50:42 GMT -5
Eh, are you sure about that? From what I've seen, a lot of millennials and Gen Z'ers feel almost unified in how separate they are from Gen-X. And I hope we are not using that person on Twitter who put that comprehensive anti-Lindsay list as an example of a "typical Zoomer". That's not a generational thing. That's an individual being petty and kind of obsessive. Those kinds of folk have been around sadly since the Stone Ages. I'm sure way before the dawn of time, Grog didn't like how Krug made the cave tribe chief look in the ancient drawings and talked behind Krug's back. When I was talking about "future old fogeys" earlier, that's the kind of younger person I was referring to. Millenials and Z'ers definitely have a lot in common, namely in how financially screwed over we've been, but I should have specified I mean kind of in terms of how we navigate the online world, what qualifies as "very online" between the two generations, how Millenials are kind of the last cohort to have any considerable upbringing that wasn't fully online, etc. and how that might impact how we approach just dealing with one another in a setting like Twitter as Z'ers now start moving toward adulthood. It’s weird, I was born in 84 and I didn’t become a true internet-geek until maybe 1996, so I do have plenty of those pre-digital lifestyle memories, but I’ve also probably been online enough to get a gist of how the web has evolved and affected our culture. (I don’t go anywhere near the “dark corners” of the web though, everyone’s got a limit.) I do get what you mean about how future gens won’t have the wealth of offline experiences and perspectives that I might, but this Lindsay situation and the individuals targeting her strikes me as a distinct and serious issue that I’ve seen many more older people display as well. Boomers, the Greatest Gen, millennials, we’re all susceptible to falling into that frenzied mob and ganging up on a person (or people) as the villain du jour. There’s unfortunately no age limit on feeling powerless, angry at the world, and wanting to lash out and tear someone down in order to make one’s self feel better, just a little bit. Certainly not something that can just be pegged on “those damn kids”, I just feel this particular issue speaks to a deeper dilemma. This attitude of tribalism is a toxic mentality that’s impacting all generations and a wide range of demographics. And it’s crazy how this all stemmed from a Disney movie that had a story literally all about how gang mentality was bad.
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Scoops
ALF
Potato Clown
Posts: 1,123
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Post by Scoops on Apr 18, 2021 22:13:07 GMT -5
That Lindsay has had to divulge so much painful personal history because of this harassment is such a tragedy. Seeing people whose positions and politics I nominally agree with get whipped up into a bad faith frenzy is utterly disheartening. The whole concept of keeping receipts for the explicit purpose of weaponising against someone you dont like is so morally abhorrent and so pervasive. Even in this little community I have seen users specifically discuss this tactic against former users. Its monstrous. hell that one shit head did it to James Gunn and we all condemned that so how the hell is this any different. The difference is the attacker. The person who went after Gunn did it with the clear intention of taking down someone for their progressive beliefs. It's a lot trickier to fight against "cancel culture" when the accuser isn't so obvious in their motive.
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Post by Cyno on Apr 19, 2021 2:42:00 GMT -5
hell that one shit head did it to James Gunn and we all condemned that so how the hell is this any different. The difference is the attacker. The person who went after Gunn did it with the clear intention of taking down someone for their progressive beliefs. It's a lot trickier to fight against "cancel culture" when the accuser isn't so obvious in their motive. That didn't stop Disney from panic firing him, though at least he eventually got hired back and got a nice DC gig for The Suicide Squad, too.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 19, 2021 5:21:46 GMT -5
Millenials and Z'ers definitely have a lot in common, namely in how financially screwed over we've been, but I should have specified I mean kind of in terms of how we navigate the online world, what qualifies as "very online" between the two generations, how Millenials are kind of the last cohort to have any considerable upbringing that wasn't fully online, etc. and how that might impact how we approach just dealing with one another in a setting like Twitter as Z'ers now start moving toward adulthood. It’s weird, I was born in 84 and I didn’t become a true internet-geek until maybe 1996, so I do have plenty of those pre-digital lifestyle memories, but I’ve also probably been online enough to get a gist of how the web has evolved and affected our culture. (I don’t go anywhere near the “dark corners” of the web though, everyone’s got a limit.) I do get what you mean about how future gens won’t have the wealth of offline experiences and perspectives that I might, but this Lindsay situation and the individuals targeting her strikes me as a distinct and serious issue that I’ve seen many more older people display as well. Boomers, the Greatest Gen, millennials, we’re all susceptible to falling into that frenzied mob and ganging up on a person (or people) as the villain du jour. There’s unfortunately no age limit on feeling powerless, angry at the world, and wanting to lash out and tear someone down in order to make one’s self feel better, just a little bit. Certainly not something that can just be pegged on “those damn kids”, I just feel this particular issue speaks to a deeper dilemma. This attitude of tribalism is a toxic mentality that’s impacting all generations and a wide range of demographics. And it’s crazy how this all stemmed from a Disney movie that had a story literally all about how gang mentality was bad. Yep, any time communication technology takes a step up, there'll be some major differences in navigating the new tech by people who've been around it since childhood and those who aren't native to it due to the year they were born and what have you. Where the issue comes in with modern comm tech, mainly social media, is how the gigantic companies running them specifically design and curate their platforms to encourage so much of the unhealthy behavior that's been outlined here. Encouraging "doom scrolling", giving ad space and recommendations to toxic outlets, highlighting and encouraging drama and harmful interactions among users, etc., it's all so baked in to the platforms that it's no small wonder many people will say "why don't you just stay off Twitter?" or whatever other platform...but in a lot of cases, like with Ellis (contractually obligated to use Twitter to promote her books by her publisher), that's not really an option.
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Post by eJm on Apr 19, 2021 13:16:54 GMT -5
like with Ellis (contractually obligated to use Twitter to promote her books by her publisher), that's not really an option. She’s back on Twitter and one of the things she confirmed was that this a joke. There’s a marketing agreement but not an obligation. Not to take away from anything else said, just should point that out.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 19, 2021 14:56:52 GMT -5
like with Ellis (contractually obligated to use Twitter to promote her books by her publisher), that's not really an option. She’s back on Twitter and one of the things she confirmed was that this a joke. There’s a marketing agreement but not an obligation. Not to take away from anything else said, just should point that out. Good to know, though in fairness even if it's not a full-on contractual requirement it's still largely a need in modern business/entrepreneurship when you mostly have to be your own/your best marketer. Like, some pro wrestlers today can get away with not using Twitter (e.g. Moxley notably avoids it), but for the majority of them not using it is a pretty big business risk nowadays.
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Post by smokinvokoun86 on Apr 19, 2021 15:44:38 GMT -5
Just looked at the tweet. Yeah....seems like people taking things WAAAAY out of proportion. Twitter sucks man.
Also in the process of watching the video now. And it’s fantastic. This whole thing ironically makes me want to watch her again because in haven’t in a very long time.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 19, 2021 19:59:39 GMT -5
I do get what you mean about how future gens won’t have the wealth of offline experiences and perspectives that I might, but this Lindsay situation and the individuals targeting her strikes me as a distinct and serious issue that I’ve seen many more older people display as well. Boomers, the Greatest Gen, millennials, we’re all susceptible to falling into that frenzied mob and ganging up on a person (or people) as the villain du jour. There’s unfortunately no age limit on feeling powerless, angry at the world, and wanting to lash out and tear someone down in order to make one’s self feel better, just a little bit. Certainly not something that can just be pegged on “those damn kids”, I just feel this particular issue speaks to a deeper dilemma. This attitude of tribalism is a toxic mentality that’s impacting all generations and a wide range of demographics. The trick is, you can't just be like "oh, welp, all this anger and tribalism is bad!" Because, like... yeah: People totally do tone-police. They totally do use "have empathy for the racist who hates you" as a club to shut people up. And it's good to say "Hey, you know what? Sometimes I can't or won't have empathy for the racist who hates me, because that's not always fair to ask of me." But at what point do we acknowledge we can go too far the other way, too? and often the people who get into this are the ones who very reasonably would have a hard time doing it. Contrapoints gets into an element of this in her cancelled video, where it's like, "Why is anyone surprised we're all awful to each other? Our community is essentially defined by the fact that we've been completely invalidated to the point we all become neurotic messes." (and also the ones really doing it are like fifteen) But the "let's take down the old, stuffy person everyone loves" thing is definitely not new. Like... I remember in the early 2000s or so I saw a bunch of people raging about Moby and the fact that he marketed his music, and his CDs were sold in Starbucks. And it was like... I dunno what percent of this is "let's seriously engage with the way financial incentivization messes with the creative process" and what percent is "f*** you, Moby, you got too famous and my mom likes you and you're uncool and I hate you" but those two things were definitely getting mushed together in these people's heads.
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Glitch
King Koopa
Not Going To Die; Childs, we're goin' out to give Blair the test. If he tries to make it back here and we're not with him... burn him.
Watching you.
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Post by Glitch on Apr 19, 2021 23:06:47 GMT -5
She handled this a lot better than certain critics she used to work with.
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Paul
Vegeta
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Post by Paul on Apr 20, 2021 0:19:58 GMT -5
She handled this a lot better than certain critics she used to work with. I'd say they both handled their situations badly, but just in totally different ways. But that's just my opinion.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 28, 2021 15:54:29 GMT -5
Bumping this to say she's now leaving the internet totally because of sustained months of harassment.
Cancel culture continues to "not be real" though because if you're still making a ton of money your mental health doesn't matter!
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Post by eJm on Dec 28, 2021 16:37:10 GMT -5
I’m going to go ahead and lock this topic for now since I have a feeling it’ll go south quick considering.
If any mods disagree with my decision, no skin off my back but honestly, I’m going to say it’s better to do that then to not.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Dec 28, 2021 17:05:46 GMT -5
Nah, I don't really think there's anything else that needs saying. The her leaving YouTube deal is the only new development.
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