Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 121,094
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 16, 2021 2:00:39 GMT -5
For those curious. This is the tweet: I don't see how this is racist. Or is it hella racist and I'm just dumb?
It got side-eyed by people because, it's not like there's this huge influx of South East Asian-inspired media flooding the market, so pitting it against each other can feel reductive to a lot of SEA people, which was one of the criticisms I saw of it, especially since it's not like there's a shortage of other media that is similar to other works. If it was just that, it wouldn't have likely attracted as much attention, but she kept doubling and tripling down with people, which made it snowball. This was more an hours-long breakdown than one tweet pissing people off.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 2:53:55 GMT -5
Boy you can really tell who didn't watch the video based on 1) The fact that everyone thinks it's an apology video (It isn't! And you don't deserve one)
2) The people going 'it's a video all about how cancel culture is bad.' (It isn't.)
It's a nuanced look about the nature of performative allyship AND an exhausting look at all the mistakes she's made in the past - this was made necessary by the fact that a huge amount of the feedback towards her dug up every single past mistake she made including a bunch of bullshit drama from her personal life that is no ones business but hers.
And if you're going "oh, she should have just issued an apology"...no. She shouldn't have. Because it wouldn't have called off the wolves. If someone deliberately takes the worst possible interpretation of what you say - and jumping to thinking stuff like "you can see it if you squint" is a racist jab IS a bad faith, wildly stupid thing to say - you don't deserve any kindness. You deserve to be aggressively, brutally shut down and told you're being a moron. This idea that your identity makes you have an inherently more logical position on anything is such a stupid, very online take to have it makes my eyes roll out of my damn head. In the real world, if you act the way people are reacting to her you deservedly get the reputation for being a shit disturber.
And I'm glad she monetized the video. I hope she makes a mint from it. The vultures on twitter came down like a hammer on a voice that has continuously advanced causes they pretend to care about because she didn't immediately fold when they'd like her to and instead pushed back. The videos an hour and fourty minutes because it takes two minutes to add to the hate pile, and a long ass time to sift through it.
Also, all of her videos are long. Her last video "Tracing the Roots of Pop Culture Transphobia" is an hour long. Her video on Borat was thirty minutes - which is short for her! - but the two before that were an hour each. Of course the video that is her biggest drama ever is going to take longer.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 16, 2021 6:25:46 GMT -5
Yeah it's really disturbing to me to see the amount of people who just come in to go "I didn't watch the video, she's bad because a mob trying to make her look bad by nitpicking everything must be right" even though the whole video is about how ugly the harassment was over something that's ultimately small f***ing potatoes. I'm going to have to leave this thread because it's sadly becoming the very kind of echo chamber that her Twitter became. You don't like what she said? Fine. But don't go condoning the frankly disturbing level of harassment she was receiving just because you disagree with her. This video isn't an hour and a half of her justifying herself, it's a video about how people are all too happy to tear into each other and harass people and try to ruin their lives just because they disagree. I can't blame her for deleting her Twitter given the kinds of abuse hurled at her. And I'd like to think the people at FAN are better than that but some of you are really showing yourselves here and need to take a good long look at yourselves. Peace, I'm done.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 16, 2021 6:33:26 GMT -5
All of that is likely true,doesn't mean I wanna watch it and I like her content generally.
It's like any YouTube personality to me really, when they put out out a video on a subject I'm interested in, I'll take a look. Otherwise? Eh. I personally don't get how some viewers get so caught up in Youtubers personal stuff more than they do say a sitcom actor (which to be fair people do that too much as well). I guess it's in the nature of how people feel closer to content creators they may be directly patronizing or something?
I dunno, as for me, just don't care.
When she does a deep dive on a show or book I'm into, I'll check that out.
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Post by Alice Syndrome on Apr 16, 2021 7:20:08 GMT -5
...did she not learn from ContraPoints doing that last year?
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Apr 16, 2021 7:25:51 GMT -5
YouTube drama is just kind of weird. It fascinates me. How there's a whole ecosystem of youtube channels built around reporting and documenting drama from other youtube channels and content creators. The petty beef is often much more interesting to me than their content itself. Not trying to sit there and watch some guy just play Fortnite, but he ends up in a self-made crisis because he ran his mouth, I'll watch analysis of that for hours.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Apr 16, 2021 8:24:31 GMT -5
When you make a 2 hour "apology" video. It doesn't come off as sincere. She's making herself out to be a victim. She had a bad take that could be taken as racist, and was called out on it by people of color who tried to explain to her why it came off as racist. She then doubled down on it and deleted her Twitter. Now here's this 2 hour video saying how cancel culture is bad. This isn't an apology. This is making it all about her. Getting ad revenue, plugging her Patreon, and plugging her book. It didn't need to be 2 hours. It didn't even need to be 5 minutes. It could have been a tweet. The whole thing comes off as disingenuous. It's not an apology video though. As someone else mentioned it's a very raw take on the twitter mob mentality how disheartening and dangerous it can be. Hell there's an entire segment dedicated talking about how the same people who harassed her are also targeting Sarah Z and Contrapoints.
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Post by EvenBaldobombHasAJob on Apr 16, 2021 8:42:48 GMT -5
When you make a 2 hour "apology" video. It doesn't come off as sincere. She's making herself out to be a victim. She had a bad take that could be taken as racist, and was called out on it by people of color who tried to explain to her why it came off as racist. She then doubled down on it and deleted her Twitter. Now here's this 2 hour video saying how cancel culture is bad. This isn't an apology. This is making it all about her. Getting ad revenue, plugging her Patreon, and plugging her book. It didn't need to be 2 hours. It didn't even need to be 5 minutes. It could have been a tweet. The whole thing comes off as disingenuous. It's not an apology video though. As someone else mentioned it's a very raw take on the twitter mob mentality how disheartening and dangerous it can be. Hell there's an entire segment dedicated talking about how the same people who harassed her are also targeting Sarah Z and Contrapoints. Basically this. It's sad a lot of people are refusing to watch it. I dunno, maybe they're afraid it'll cause them to re-evaluate their own shitty behaviour. These kinds of things are a far bigger issue than simply a YouTuber making a few cringey mistakes that they owned up to and getting pilloried. There's a very sickening mob mentality about things like this. There are times when someone does/says things that are actively reprehensible and the consequences are justified, but everyone just seems so determined to make enemies out of everyone else and afford no room for forgiveness. and doubling down when you're called out for this frankly toxic behaviour (either because you're the one harassing people or happily standing aside and letting others do it) You've become the real problem. And that's the last in going to say on it in desperate hope that maybe someone will see some f***ing reason. Sorry if I'm coming off as preachy but watching this video really pissed me off about the performative activist Twitter mob. So glad I don't have a Twitter account.
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Post by mrtuesday on Apr 16, 2021 9:03:25 GMT -5
When you make a 2 hour "apology" video. It doesn't come off as sincere. She's making herself out to be a victim. She had a bad take that could be taken as racist, and was called out on it by people of color who tried to explain to her why it came off as racist. She then doubled down on it and deleted her Twitter. Now here's this 2 hour video saying how cancel culture is bad. This isn't an apology. This is making it all about her. Getting ad revenue, plugging her Patreon, and plugging her book. It didn't need to be 2 hours. It didn't even need to be 5 minutes. It could have been a tweet. The whole thing comes off as disingenuous. It's not an apology video though. As someone else mentioned it's a very raw take on the twitter mob mentality how disheartening and dangerous it can be. Hell there's an entire segment dedicated talking about how the same people who harassed her are also targeting Sarah Z and Contrapoints. Did she address the actual Asian people that called her out on a bad take that could be seen as racist or did she just address the white people that attacked her? All she needed to do was address the legitimate concerns of the Asian people that responded to the tweets. Understand that what she said was wrong and why it was so. And apologize accordingly. She couldn't do that. Instead, she makes a 2 hours video with ads painting herself as the victim. Also plugging her patreon and book. Fame comes with people who want to see you fail. But also comes with people who want to see you become better through different viewpoints. Lindays sees these as the same. It doesn't help her that she defends an aids joke in the first 10 minutes of the video. I'm not white. I don't think Lindsay is racist. But her bad takes do come off as such. All she had to do is understand why it was wrong. And move on. You don't need a 2 hour video to say that.
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Post by Kevin Hamilton on Apr 16, 2021 9:10:59 GMT -5
Hell I didn't watch her video on the movie Rent either. That's not a stance or enabling anything either, it's not caring about the movie Rent.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
Unique and Special Snowflake, and a pants-less heathen.
Perpetually Constipated
Posts: 39,293
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 16, 2021 9:22:12 GMT -5
I'm not even sure Emperor Palpatine could find enough content for a one hour and 40 minute apology holovid.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Apr 16, 2021 10:11:31 GMT -5
It's not an apology video though. As someone else mentioned it's a very raw take on the twitter mob mentality how disheartening and dangerous it can be. Hell there's an entire segment dedicated talking about how the same people who harassed her are also targeting Sarah Z and Contrapoints. Did she address the actual Asian people that called her out on a bad take that could be seen as racist or did she just address the white people that attacked her? All she needed to do was address the legitimate concerns of the Asian people that responded to the tweets. Understand that what she said was wrong and why it was so. And apologize accordingly. She couldn't do that. Instead, she makes a 2 hours video with ads painting herself as the victim. Also plugging her patreon and book. Fame comes with people who want to see you fail. But also comes with people who want to see you become better through different viewpoints. Lindays sees these as the same. It doesn't help her that she defends an aids joke in the first 10 minutes of the video. I'm not white. I don't think Lindsay is racist. But her bad takes do come off as such. All she had to do is understand why it was wrong. And move on. You don't need a 2 hour video to say that. What possible legitimate concerns could these people have that she didn't already explain? Also, she is the victim. Who else could be? Again, it's not an apology because she didn't do anything wrong. The mob isn't right just because it's mad. Being upset does not entitle you to an apology.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 16, 2021 11:54:03 GMT -5
This might not be the most coherent take because my break is short, but here goes:
I did watch the video, and I don’t see it as a black-or-white situation. Lindsay’s said and done some dumb and problematic stuff, as I have in the past (and I might accidentally do so again in the future on a slipup, hopefully I’ll do my best to avoid that and be good to people). Her take on Raya is hers, personally I got a kick out of the film, but I don’t see what she said as explicitly in bad faith. I don’t know if it warranted a feature length confessional, but that’s what she wanted to get off her chest, I suppose.
Funny enough, I did get rid of my personal Twitter a while back (I just use the FAN account to promote our stuff, mainly). I wasn’t “driven off” or anything, I just was barely using the app anymore, and I just felt it recycled too much negativity and constant arguments in my feed. Just wasn’t much fun anymore. I prefer FAN way more, it’s better regulated and way more chill.
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Scoops
ALF
Potato Clown
Posts: 1,123
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Post by Scoops on Apr 16, 2021 12:26:32 GMT -5
This might not be the most coherent take because my break is short, but here goes: I did watch the video, and I don’t see it as a black-or-white situation. Lindsay’s said and done some dumb and problematic stuff, as I have in the past (and I might accidentally do so again in the future on a slipup, hopefully I’ll do my best to avoid that and be good to people). Her take on Raya is hers, personally I got a kick out of the film, but I don’t see what she said as explicitly in bad faith. I don’t know if it warranted a feature length confessional, but that’s what she wanted to get off her chest, I suppose. Funny enough, I did get rid of my personal Twitter a while back (I just use the FAN account to promote our stuff, mainly). I wasn’t “driven off” or anything, I just was barely using the app anymore, and I just felt it recycled too much negativity and constant arguments in my feed. Just wasn’t much fun anymore. I prefer FAN way more, it’s better regulated and way more chill. Honestly, the second a content creator becomes popular enough that they don't need twitter for self promotion, they should absolutely nuke their account. It's just not worth the personal and professional risk.
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Post by Clash, Never a Meter Maid on Apr 16, 2021 14:48:48 GMT -5
I feel that certain people need the right kind of social media that works specifically for them, IMO. No platform is perfect obviously, but I see where Ellis is coming from in terms of people being turned off of Twitter pile-ons, and how it’s hurting its growth.
Again, not to say that all of the critique towards her was completely unwarranted, because one can always learn from their mistakes and change for the better. I know there are genuinely good, compassionate people there who were bothered by stuff she said/did. Still, I’ve learned to better pick up on when a criticism might be kinda malicious, and not very genuine. The internet’s anonymity makes it a challenge sometimes, but it’s doable.
Mob thought is a problem across social media overall- there’s a ton of dumb stuff on Reddit, Instagram and Facebook, Discord, you name it. What makes things so distinctly tough for Twitter’s mods is how short-form the discourse is. Since you’re limited to 200-something characters of text, it’s nigh impossible to properly format an argument the way one wants it. Reading a Twitter feed is almost like walking into someone’s living room. They’re all “living room/bedroom thoughts “, very raw and unfiltered musings. Personally, I don’t like strangers in my room, and I’m a bit uncomfortable just walking around some’s home with their door wide open.
I’m the kind of guy who likes to let their viewpoints and personal takes “cook” a little longer before I take them out of my brain-oven, you know? That way I can phrase what I mean better so I’m not misunderstood too badly. Sadly, when things get heated on Twitter and other quick-take platforms, it’s like angry people hurling raw meat at one another.
If anything positive could come from incidents like these, I at the very least have my fingers crossed that social media creators can better regulate things so that they don’t attract as much insta-anger and constant infighting, because it can and will hurt their bottom line if gone unchecked, IMO.
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Scoops
ALF
Potato Clown
Posts: 1,123
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Post by Scoops on Apr 16, 2021 14:49:24 GMT -5
Also, I didn't watch the video but I did see the Movie Bob pseudo apology making the rounds, and Jesus Christ, she just keeps twisting that knife.
Like, I get it. MovieBob is still a dipshit even when a lot of the people who attack him are worse, but God damn Lindsay the man's already dead.
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Post by Terry McConkey on Apr 16, 2021 16:22:50 GMT -5
Funny because I usually associate people claiming that they were "canceled" as having little to no self-awareness or empathy.
I'm ready for the term "cancel culture" to be canceled already. Sick of it.
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The Ichi
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AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,299
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Post by The Ichi on Apr 16, 2021 17:01:37 GMT -5
I don't think that tweet had any ill-intent behind it and she seems like an okay person, but I do have to roll my eyes at the idea of someone being "cancelled" making an almost 2 hour length monetized video.
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 16, 2021 17:04:29 GMT -5
I don't hate Lindsey Elis. I don't watch much of her stuff, but I did like her video on Freddy Got Fingered back in the day.
That said who wants to sit through on hour and forty minutes of her basically going "It's just a joke, bro."
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Post by Hit Girl on Apr 16, 2021 17:08:36 GMT -5
She was always going to talk herself into trouble one way or another. She's eloquent and intelligent but pretentious, often looking for pseudo sociological themes in film where they are unlikely to exist. It's common among YouTube reviewers and commentators who for example look for "woke" agendas in movies which can be better explained as simply being the result of clumsy or outright shitty writing. Instead of simply reviewing on films on their own merits, they feel the need, either to make themselves sound more intellectual, or to appeal to a certain audience or fanbase, to try to become social studies commentators and almost always fail, or end up with awful "takes" (a word I hate) on various political, social or economic issues, even if reviewing some brainless shit like the Ghostbusters remake or The Last Jedi, and as amazing as it seems, her videos aren't even that long when compared to the three, four, five etc...hour long videos out there on similar topics.
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