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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Dec 10, 2021 9:40:00 GMT -5
Can America stop trying to adapt anime now? Not as long if there's a chance for money to be made. Now the question is there any anime that CAN be adapted at least decently. I don’t think there is anything inherently difficult about adapting anime (well, depending on the anime) any more than say, a superhero comic. They just need to take the Marvel approach and both respect the source material AND make it well. For whatever reason studios seem to think quality doesn’t matter when adapting anime. Like who the f*** greenlit the Dragonball script?
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Dec 10, 2021 9:47:58 GMT -5
Can America stop trying to adapt anime now? Not as long if there's a chance for money to be made. Now the question is there any anime that CAN be adapted at least decently. I can't believe they butchered Death Note the way they did. That seems like it should have been easy to adapt. But, nope, cock up. Live-action daptions of anime and manga IS easily possible--just look at Alice in Borderland. That show was brilliant.
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Post by Ryback on a Pole! on Dec 10, 2021 9:49:12 GMT -5
Not as long if there's a chance for money to be made. Now the question is there any anime that CAN be adapted at least decently. For whatever reason studios seem to think quality doesn’t matter when adapting anime. Like who the f*** greenlit the Dragonball script? I get the same feeling when it comes to video games adaptions. It's not a respected medium, so they just half-ass it and put zero effort in.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 10, 2021 10:17:31 GMT -5
I'm kind of simultaneously dreading the American Your Name and also greatly hoping it actually happens after the years worth of delays and people leaving the production. Best case scenario we get a quality alternative version of a movie I absolutely love or we get a hilarious disaster that makes zero sense to a general audience.
Though unfortunately I think the most likely scenario is 1), they'd crowbar in more scenes of them together, 2), they'd spoil all the big twists in the trailer because you have to put the budget on display, and 3), they strip out all of the fun and humor of it and just make it a dry, "I want something more," romance.
Speaking of amazing disasters, can't wait to see American Steins;Gate. I think of the main eight they only people whose personalities you wouldn't have to completely rework to be palatable to a wide American audience are Suzuha, Moeka, and maybe Mayuri, and you'd probably just have to drop Daru, Faris, and Luka entirely.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Dec 10, 2021 11:26:49 GMT -5
I honestly didn't think this adaptation was bad to be honest. Wasn't a fraction as good as the anime, but that was because, to me, Cowboy Bebop is the gold standard. Definitely parts of this I wasn't a fan of changing but overall I enjoyed it.
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Post by MrElijah on Dec 10, 2021 11:52:34 GMT -5
Not as long if there's a chance for money to be made. Now the question is there any anime that CAN be adapted at least decently. I can't believe they butchered Death Note the way they did. That seems like it should have been easy to adapt. But, nope, cock up. Live-action daptions of anime and manga IS easily possible--just look at Alice in Borderland. That show was brilliant. Maybe it's because I've been watching recently but, I wanna see City Hunter get adapted. Yeah, I know Ryo's.....quirks would be an issue but I think it can work.
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Post by El Cokehead del Knife Fight on Dec 11, 2021 5:10:41 GMT -5
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 11, 2021 10:37:53 GMT -5
Doesn’t it seem incredibly counter productive to cancel a show after 1 week of availability? Why not sit on it for a couple months before making a decision? How many people out there are like myself who will never watch or never finish based solely upon the fact that it’s cancelled and you know it won’t lead anywhere so no point watching?
I don’t know about you guys, but outside of a very small handful of shows it’s usually weeks or months before I check out a new show or new season. Same thing happened with Punisher, Jennifer Jones and Iron Fist. The shows were dead in the water so I never bothered finishing them. Netflix is way too trigger happy with cancellations when shows take time to catch on.
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Post by HMARK Center on Dec 11, 2021 10:50:27 GMT -5
Doesn’t it seem incredibly counter productive to cancel a show after 1 week of availability? Why not sit on it for a couple months before making a decision? How many people out there are like myself who will never watch or never finish based solely upon the fact that it’s cancelled and you know it won’t lead anywhere so no point watching? I don’t know about you guys, but outside of a very small handful of shows it’s usually weeks or months before I check out a new show or new season. Same thing happened with Punisher, Jennifer Jones and Iron Fist. The shows were dead in the water so I never bothered finishing them. Netflix is way too trigger happy with cancellations when shows take time to catch on. They're acting like a bog standard TV network when what their platform is really an entirely different medium.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Dec 11, 2021 11:06:32 GMT -5
Doesn’t it seem incredibly counter productive to cancel a show after 1 week of availability? Why not sit on it for a couple months before making a decision? How many people out there are like myself who will never watch or never finish based solely upon the fact that it’s cancelled and you know it won’t lead anywhere so no point watching? I don’t know about you guys, but outside of a very small handful of shows it’s usually weeks or months before I check out a new show or new season. Same thing happened with Punisher, Jennifer Jones and Iron Fist. The shows were dead in the water so I never bothered finishing them. Netflix is way too trigger happy with cancellations when shows take time to catch on. They're acting like a bog standard TV network when what their platform is really an entirely different medium. Unless the viewership is cataclysmically bad, it’s foolish for Netflix to be so trigger happy. Even network shows generally get a few episodes, and therefore a few weeks or more, to find some sort of audience before getting canned. I don’t watch a tonne of network TV anymore, but it’s pretty rare now for a show to not atleast air it’s initial order I think. Usually the only dead on arrival shows on networks now are something that actively loses a large lead in audience. Also, this is a very strong argument for the drip feed method of release. If this series plays out over 10 weeks instead of one, maybe it would’ve found an audience.
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Post by prettynami on Dec 11, 2021 11:54:00 GMT -5
The makers in Japan can't even live-action adapt anime well, cross an ocean and it only gets worse. But everyone needs to keep trying cause I love all the cringe inducing attempts.
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Fundertaker
El Dandy
Hideo Kojima should direct every ending ever!
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Post by Fundertaker on Dec 11, 2021 16:34:27 GMT -5
I can't believe they butchered Death Note the way they did. That seems like it should have been easy to adapt. But, nope, cock up. Live-action daptions of anime and manga IS easily possible--just look at Alice in Borderland. That show was brilliant. Maybe it's because I've been watching recently but, I wanna see City Hunter get adapted. Yeah, I know Ryo's.....quirks would be an issue but I think it can work. Well, it helps that City Hunter is mostly grounded in the real world. Just make a uber charismatic PI, cute assistant that's the sister of the PI's best friend that died, case of the week with some bits building up to a two part finale and bang it up in 10 eps.
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Post by Cyno on Dec 11, 2021 16:47:49 GMT -5
I like seeing adaptations that do different things. "It's not just like the anime so it sucks" is a lazy criticism as well as a lazy way to paint the criticism of Netflix Bebop. The problem is that the different things Netflix Bebop did weren't particularly good.
The show did a lot of good. I think Mustafa Shakir and Daniella Pineda were really good as Jet and Faye. John Cho was fine as Spike. I'm not sure if Alex Hassell wasn't good as Vicious or if the role was just so poorly written that no one could've saved it with great acting. Elena Satine as Julia was definitely a case of "well-acted but poorly written," though. The interactions between the main cast were fun and the acting was good enough to overlook a lot of the on-paper cringe dialogue. It was also great to hear Yoko Kanno's wonderful music in this show. Ein is also Ein and awesome.
But it just falls apart with the meta-plot. It's like it was made by someone who liked Cowboy Bebop well enough and captured a lot of that aesthetic but doesn't really get what made it work. Jen Bartel (really good comic artist) had a good tweet thread about why Netflix Bebop missed the mark as far as the plot and setting go.
If I had to give it a rating, it'd probably be around a C for a letter grade or a 6.5-7/10.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 17:04:08 GMT -5
I like seeing adaptations that do different things. "It's not just like the anime so it sucks" is a lazy criticism as well as a lazy way to paint the criticism of Netflix Bebop. The problem is that the different things Netflix Bebop did weren't particularly good.
The show did a lot of good. I think Mustafa Shakir and Daniella Pineda were really good as Jet and Faye. John Cho was fine as Spike. I'm not sure if Alex Hassell wasn't good as Vicious or if the role was just so poorly written that no one could've saved it with great acting. Elena Satine as Julia was definitely a case of "well-acted but poorly written," though. The interactions between the main cast were fun and the acting was good enough to overlook a lot of the on-paper cringe dialogue. It was also great to hear Yoko Kanno's wonderful music in this show. Ein is also Ein and awesome.
But it just falls apart with the meta-plot. It's like it was made by someone who liked Cowboy Bebop well enough and captured a lot of that aesthetic but doesn't really get what made it work. Jen Bartel (really good comic artist) had a good tweet thread about why Netflix Bebop missed the mark as far as the plot and setting go. If I had to give it a rating, it'd probably be around a C for a letter grade or a 6.5-7/10.
I didn't like that they tied some of the bounties to the larger plot, like Vicious hiring Pierrot le Fou. The fact that they're bounty hunters is a no-brainer way to insert one-off characters in the story. The politics? Eh, yes and no. There were style and pacing issues that had a much bigger impact than politics.
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Post by noobeast on Dec 11, 2021 17:26:48 GMT -5
I'm in no way, shape, or form an anime fan. In fact, I absolutely despise it. I AM a big comic book fan, and I think comic book movies absolutely suck for the most part.
I have a theory that anime adaptations suffer from the same thing that the comic adaptations do, namely: Anytime you take a niche piece of culture and try to put it in the mainstream, you have to make certain concessions to make it accessible to the outside world.
I absolutely abhor every single X-Men movie they have ever made. Why? Because they got everything wrong from the jump and it only got worse. From the casting to the mixing of timelines to characters not being written even remotely like that have been for 30+ years...they are just hot, hot ass.
But...they are also hugely successful, largely with people who have never picked up a comic in their lives. So, what the f*** do I know?
What I'm saying is, we have to realize that these adaptations aren't for us. If a studio were to take a gamble on making adaptations of these niche genres and doing it by the book, then there is nothing there to hook casual viewers, and it will just be another piece of cult media appealing to people they already appeal to.
The point here is to expand the brand and the fanbase, which means having to make it appeal to more people. The unfortunate side effect is that it winds up isolating hardcores. But, from a business perspective, if you're losing 1 hardcore and gaining 2 casuals, then it's a win.
It's the same as wrestling: The people on this board complain about WWE and how bad it is nonstop, and I agree...but their ratings are holding and they are making more money than any of us can possibly conceive. Why? Because their product isn't meant for us, it's meant for casuals.
Not saying this is gonna make anybody understand, just saying that you gotta take these things into mind.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2021 22:38:16 GMT -5
I'm in no way, shape, or form an anime fan. In fact, I absolutely despise it. I AM a big comic book fan, and I think comic book movies absolutely suck for the most part. I have a theory that anime adaptations suffer from the same thing that the comic adaptations do, namely: Anytime you take a niche piece of culture and try to put it in the mainstream, you have to make certain concessions to make it accessible to the outside world. I absolutely abhor every single X-Men movie they have ever made. Why? Because they got everything wrong from the jump and it only got worse. From the casting to the mixing of timelines to characters not being written even remotely like that have been for 30+ years...they are just hot, hot ass. But...they are also hugely successful, largely with people who have never picked up a comic in their lives. So, what the f*** do I know? What I'm saying is, we have to realize that these adaptations aren't for us. If a studio were to take a gamble on making adaptations of these niche genres and doing it by the book, then there is nothing there to hook casual viewers, and it will just be another piece of cult media appealing to people they already appeal to. The point here is to expand the brand and the fanbase, which means having to make it appeal to more people. The unfortunate side effect is that it winds up isolating hardcores. But, from a business perspective, if you're losing 1 hardcore and gaining 2 casuals, then it's a win. It's the same as wrestling: The people on this board complain about WWE and how bad it is nonstop, and I agree...but their ratings are holding and they are making more money than any of us can possibly conceive. Why? Because their product isn't meant for us, it's meant for casuals. Not saying this is gonna make anybody understand, just saying that you gotta take these things into mind. Nah, very little of that applies here. There were very few major changes made to the series. The characters were largely the same, as was the world. They adopted episodes almost wholesale and, though they changed when certain characters were introduced and some of their relationships, there was only one truly dramatic change involving Julia. Jet having a kid was new but certainly not something that should anger fans of the anime. Accessibility wasn't the issue here. Riffing on the backstory and trying to develop flat characters like Julia and Vicious into round ones? That was where a lot of their mistakes were made. The chief problems involved pacing, tone changes, and casting choices but, even then, it was still very close to the series. Just shows ignorance of the original here to make those comments.
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Post by noobeast on Dec 12, 2021 1:10:04 GMT -5
I'm in no way, shape, or form an anime fan. In fact, I absolutely despise it. I AM a big comic book fan, and I think comic book movies absolutely suck for the most part. I have a theory that anime adaptations suffer from the same thing that the comic adaptations do, namely: Anytime you take a niche piece of culture and try to put it in the mainstream, you have to make certain concessions to make it accessible to the outside world. I absolutely abhor every single X-Men movie they have ever made. Why? Because they got everything wrong from the jump and it only got worse. From the casting to the mixing of timelines to characters not being written even remotely like that have been for 30+ years...they are just hot, hot ass. But...they are also hugely successful, largely with people who have never picked up a comic in their lives. So, what the f*** do I know? What I'm saying is, we have to realize that these adaptations aren't for us. If a studio were to take a gamble on making adaptations of these niche genres and doing it by the book, then there is nothing there to hook casual viewers, and it will just be another piece of cult media appealing to people they already appeal to. The point here is to expand the brand and the fanbase, which means having to make it appeal to more people. The unfortunate side effect is that it winds up isolating hardcores. But, from a business perspective, if you're losing 1 hardcore and gaining 2 casuals, then it's a win. It's the same as wrestling: The people on this board complain about WWE and how bad it is nonstop, and I agree...but their ratings are holding and they are making more money than any of us can possibly conceive. Why? Because their product isn't meant for us, it's meant for casuals. Not saying this is gonna make anybody understand, just saying that you gotta take these things into mind. Nah, very little of that applies here. There were very few major changes made to the series. The characters were largely the same, as was the world. They adopted episodes almost wholesale and, though they changed when certain characters were introduced and some of their relationships, there was only one truly dramatic change involving Julia. Jet having a kid was new but certainly not something that should anger fans of the anime. Accessibility wasn't the issue here. Riffing on the backstory and trying to develop flat characters like Julia and Vicious into round ones? That was where a lot of their mistakes were made. The chief problems involved pacing, tone changes, and casting choices but, even then, it was still very close to the series. Just shows ignorance of the original here to make those comments. Yeah, I don't know anything about the original. Was it the very first line about how I hate anime that tipped you off to that? My response was to the other people posting in here that were saying a lot of the things I addressed in my comments. I'm going to assume that they have a working knowledge of the original since they say they do. I simply used examples from my own fandoms to help relate the overall point. I know, I know, you're gonna block me...
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Dec 12, 2021 3:18:55 GMT -5
The thing is though... None of these anime adaptations ever actually draw? Dragonball flopped, Cowboy Bebop flopped, Death Note seemed to do alright but the sequel appears to have stalled out, Ghost in the Shell flopped, Speed Racer flopped, it just keeps happening. If you're changing shit for the sake of actually wanting to sell it and it still isn't selling then what are you doing?
I don't even really mind tweaking things for an adaptation - like, I mentioned the Your Name one that may or may not still be happening, I love that movie but if you didn't change it substantially for an American version then it would border on incomprehensible, plus maybe they could find a way to address the giant glaring date plot hole - but I do mind when adaptations keep being consistently terrible.
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hassanchop
Grimlock
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Post by hassanchop on Dec 12, 2021 6:58:14 GMT -5
If it wasn’t called Cowboy Bebop and it was called something else with the names and places renamed would anyone still care about this show?
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Post by Cyno on Dec 12, 2021 16:14:46 GMT -5
If it wasn’t called Cowboy Bebop and it was called something else with the names and places renamed would anyone still care about this show? It might've been slightly more popular and thought of as a spiritual successor to Firefly if it was an original IP. Or thought of as a blatant ripoff of Cowboy Bebop considering some of the episodes were almost shot-for-shot remakes of the anime.
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