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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 0:13:12 GMT -5
Arrive Accuse everyone of overreacting Overreact yourself Leave Did I ever imply this dude was an Uncle Tom or whatever nonsense they're spouting because I don't recall doing that. This dude is going off on me for some perceived slight. I am directly quoting you here: Seriously guys? Seriously?? It's very obviously supposed to be in the style of an iron mask. Can we not turn into wrestling Twitter/Reddit and look to try to make a controversy about AEW that can be easily explained? I know some of you are upset because you feel that TK doesn't push black wrestlers. But can we not go overboard with this? Maybe you shouldn't tell black posters how to feel either. That can easily be taken by someone as to exclude them from being a poster who is black. "Don't tell black people how to feel" As if one person speaks for all black people and they all agree on an issue. It comes across as assuming because his opinion isn't the "shared" one, he can't be black and his opinion doesn't matter, neither of which is appropriate or true. This is especially troubling in a thread built to shit on AEW for their perceived racial issues which not everyone agrees exists. Most importantly here though, I do not think that was your intention. I dare say I know. However speaking in what can be seen as an absolute in such a charged topic can lead to misunderstandings. Please everyone, breathe. I understand between the topic and what I see called a lackluster ppv at best from a company known to deliver that it can cause tensions to rise but let's not lose our minds. Please. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 0:20:42 GMT -5
Arrive Accuse everyone of overreacting Overreact yourself Leave Did I ever imply this dude was an Uncle Tom or whatever nonsense they're spouting because I don't recall doing that. This dude is going off on me for some perceived slight. Maybe you should take your own advice and not tell a black user how he should feel. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 29, 2023 0:25:00 GMT -5
I think the issue with things like Sabu, similarly to Jeff Hardy, is that at times Tony tends to fanboy a bit and doesn't seem to realize just how bad of shape some of the guys he wants to give time to or a payday to just aren't anywhere near where they were With Sabu, the dude also had a recent health scare where people thought he was on the verge of dying, I can see that what gets to Tony more than a problematic tweet issue would. You can blame that on a vetting process, but I also assume a lot of people backstage were focused on the very same news/may not have seen that tweet either. I think the problem is when TK says publicly that Hulk Hogan is publicly banned for comments he made, if he is going to bring people in he should be going thru all the processes as well |
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 29, 2023 0:30:05 GMT -5
Flipping someone's words around to mean something that blatantly wasn't what they said and then going 'Someone imagined shit you never said but it's telling them how to feel to say you didn't say those things' is ugly as shit and just an empty distraction from the actual conversation people are trying to have.
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 29, 2023 0:32:32 GMT -5
Why even paint your face if you're wearing a mask other than to make your face look the same color as the mask?
And if that mask is black, and (regardless of intent) you're making the one non-black color on the face some big red lips?
That's really bad.
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 0:39:59 GMT -5
Why even paint your face if you're wearing a mask other than to make your face look the same color as the mask? And if that mask is black, and (regardless of intent) you're making the one non-black color on the face some big red lips? That's really bad. Go look at the pic that was posted a couple pages back. It a red line that goes from his upper face/nose to his neck. Only the middle of his lips are red while the rest is black. Some of you guys really need to google what blackface actually look like. |
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Post by Mozenrath on May 29, 2023 0:41:09 GMT -5
Hobbs loses his belt in a fart of a manner Jade loses her belt tonight in a dumb ass way Acclaimed lose to Ass Boys at the height of their popularity Swerve hasn’t won anything worthwhile yet Am I missing anything ? You're missing that Swerve a tag champ, which is frankly a decently big deal in the company, but yeah, I get where you're coming from. I do really think Swerve needs to be either TNT or International champion in the real close future, or world champion, even. Only issue there is I feel like that only happens if MJF turns face. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 29, 2023 0:42:49 GMT -5
Hobbs loses his belt in a fart of a manner Jade loses her belt tonight in a dumb ass way Acclaimed lose to Ass Boys at the height of their popularity Swerve hasn’t won anything worthwhile yet Am I missing anything ? You're missing that Swerve a tag champ, which is frankly a decently big deal in the company, but yeah, I get where you're coming from. I do really think Swerve needs to be either TNT or International champion in the real close future, or world champion, even. Only issue there is I feel like that only happens if MJF turns face. I feel like if you are going to go all in on this MJF is The Devil shit then he should be fighting heels as well |
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Post by Mozenrath on May 29, 2023 0:43:39 GMT -5
Why even paint your face if you're wearing a mask other than to make your face look the same color as the mask? And if that mask is black, and (regardless of intent) you're making the one non-black color on the face some big red lips? That's really bad. It's a red line. Like, yeah, it looks bad, but it's objectively not black face in that sense, just, unwise. Very stupid, very "uhh maybe do a dress rehearsal next time", but not black face. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 29, 2023 0:49:45 GMT -5
Why even paint your face if you're wearing a mask other than to make your face look the same color as the mask? And if that mask is black, and (regardless of intent) you're making the one non-black color on the face some big red lips? That's really bad. Go look at the pic that was posted a couple pages back. It a red line that goes from his upper face/nose to his neck. Only the middle of his lips are red while the rest is black. Some of you guys really need to google what blackface actually look like. If the middle of the lips are red and the rest of the face is black, that's blackface my dude. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 29, 2023 0:52:09 GMT -5
Why even paint your face if you're wearing a mask other than to make your face look the same color as the mask? And if that mask is black, and (regardless of intent) you're making the one non-black color on the face some big red lips? That's really bad. It's a red line. Like, yeah, it looks bad, but it's objectively not black face in that sense, just, unwise. Very stupid, very "uhh maybe do a dress rehearsal next time", but not black face. When we say "blackface" we don't mean "Attempting to either resemble a black person or emulate exaggerated characteristics of a black person" like literal blackface. When black make-up on the face looks too close for comfort to that early 20th century blackface appearance, the black on the face is blackface. Regardless of intent or reason. It's a modern inclusive updated use of the term. |
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Derk!
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Post by Derk! on May 29, 2023 0:53:04 GMT -5
 Here's a picture from twitter just to show what I mean Eh. I get why people THINK it looks like blackface. But it's not much different than some of the face paint/mask styles of other bands. Regardless if it is or isn't, that particular look is lame. I didn't catch the PPV so I can't comment on how it looked in action. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 29, 2023 0:55:36 GMT -5
And his face, from what we can tell, is still painted black beneath the mask, right?
EDIT: If you watched the show live and in motion, the camera didn't get close enough to see the nuance in the mask/paint combo. I thought it was an uncomfortablly-looking-close-to-make-up full face mask when I saw it on-screen. I didn't realize until I got to this thread it was actually painted black.
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Post by Mozenrath on May 29, 2023 0:59:10 GMT -5
It's a red line. Like, yeah, it looks bad, but it's objectively not black face in that sense, just, unwise. Very stupid, very "uhh maybe do a dress rehearsal next time", but not black face. When we say "blackface" we don't mean "Attempting to either resemble a black person or emulate exaggerated characteristics of a black person" like literal blackface. When black make-up on the face looks too close for comfort to that early 20th century blackface appearance, the black on the face is blackface. Regardless of intent or reason. It's a modern inclusive updated use of the term. I understand what you're saying, but that also feels like diluting it as a concept and rendering it toothless. If someone says someone performed blackface, and then it turns out there's no racial component, you are training people to ask followup questions in a way that gives people a lot of room to wiggle out of accountability. That feels potentially damaging. Of course, all "slippery slope" arguments have flaws, especially ones of nuance, but I just feel like this is calling a praying mantis a grasshopper. Looks like it at first glance from a given angle, objectively isn't it when given further scrutiny. |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2023 1:01:44 GMT -5
Go look at the pic that was posted a couple pages back. It a red line that goes from his upper face/nose to his neck. Only the middle of his lips are red while the rest is black. Some of you guys really need to google what blackface actually look like. If the middle of the lips are red and the rest of the face is black, that's blackface my dude. Not really. Go Google blackface. |
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chazraps
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Post by chazraps on May 29, 2023 1:02:23 GMT -5
When we say "blackface" we don't mean "Attempting to either resemble a black person or emulate exaggerated characteristics of a black person" like literal blackface. When black make-up on the face looks too close for comfort to that early 20th century blackface appearance, the black on the face is blackface. Regardless of intent or reason. It's a modern inclusive updated use of the term. I understand what you're saying, but that also feels like diluting it as a concept and rendering it toothless. If someone says someone performed blackface, and then it turns out there's no racial component, you are training people to ask followup questions in a way that gives people a lot of room to wiggle out of accountability. That feels potentially damaging. Of course, all "slippery slope" arguments have flaws, especially ones of nuance, but I just feel like this is calling a praying mantis a grasshopper. Looks like it at first glance from a given angle, objectively isn't it when given further scrutiny. I'm going to marinate on this for a bit. My initial reaction is to disagree, but I want to think on this for a bit and sleep on it. |
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Post by chazraps on May 29, 2023 1:03:20 GMT -5
If the middle of the lips are red and the rest of the face is black, that's blackface my dude. Not really. Go Google blackface. Go Google any modern blackface controversy of the last 20 years. To dispute it is like saying "but do you think he has hate in his heart?" |
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Post by Mozenrath on May 29, 2023 1:04:17 GMT -5
I understand what you're saying, but that also feels like diluting it as a concept and rendering it toothless. If someone says someone performed blackface, and then it turns out there's no racial component, you are training people to ask followup questions in a way that gives people a lot of room to wiggle out of accountability. That feels potentially damaging. Of course, all "slippery slope" arguments have flaws, especially ones of nuance, but I just feel like this is calling a praying mantis a grasshopper. Looks like it at first glance from a given angle, objectively isn't it when given further scrutiny. I'm going to marinate on this for a bit. My initial reaction is to disagree, but I want to think on this for a bit and sleep on it. I appreciate that. Like, I am genuinely trying to act in good faith here and I think you are, too, so I am going to try and do the same. I definitely won't dismiss the chance I am in the wrong on it. Like, if nothing else, I will definitely say this was imprudent as all hell on the performer's part. |
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 29, 2023 1:07:17 GMT -5
Not really. Go Google blackface. Go Google any modern blackface controversy of the last 20 years. To dispute it is like saying "but do you think he has hate in his heart?" Right Blackface is not the same over the top caricature that people associate with as it has been adapted because obviously if you walk in with pure black face we know what that is everyone does, their shouldn't be a major disagreement on that See the Kim Kardashian shoot from like 3 years ago for a modern blackface controversy where she was accused of it. It wasn't the over the top comical image we expect but it did have merit for how much she darkened her skin |
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Post by Mozenrath on May 29, 2023 1:15:36 GMT -5
Go Google any modern blackface controversy of the last 20 years. To dispute it is like saying "but do you think he has hate in his heart?" Right Blackface is not the same over the top caricature that people associate with as it has been adapted because obviously if you walk in with pure black face we know what that is everyone does, their shouldn't be a major disagreement on that See the Kim Kardashian shoot from like 3 years ago for a modern blackface controversy where she was accused of it. It wasn't the over the top comical image we expect but it did have merit for how much she darkened her skin That, I will readily agree with. Skin darkening is Not Great. Ariana Grande, Kim Kardashian and Kylie Jenner, and others have definitely co-opted things before in a way that didn't require them to look like Al Jolson or anything. |
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