pinja
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Post by pinja on Apr 7, 2022 12:51:45 GMT -5
Just saw the photo: He didn't only shave his beard like Hitler, he also made a funny face and showed the Nazi salute. How could he NOT be fired? I mean it was already brought up but ...looks over at JBL. And he did that IN GERMANY! not that doing it anywhere else makes it any less stupid etc but see where I am getting at here with this company and their inconsistent bullshit. And it was a stupid thing to do by JBL. However, he did it in Germany because he knew it'd garner him heat. Aas far as I'm aware he wasn't charged and/or convicted doing so, likely it was considered as part of a performance. Could Nash Carter claim the same? I doubt that.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 7, 2022 12:56:05 GMT -5
I mean it was already brought up but ...looks over at JBL. And he did that IN GERMANY! not that doing it anywhere else makes it any less stupid etc but see where I am getting at here with this company and their inconsistent bullshit. And it was a stupid thing to do by JBL. However, he did it in Germany because he knew it'd garner him heat. Aas far as I'm aware he wasn't charged and/or convicted doing so, likely it was considered as part of a performance. Could Nash Carter claim the same? I doubt that. I feel like doing a Nazi salute in Germany as part of a WWE sponsored performance to anger people (including Jews in the arena) is magnitudes worse than what Nash did both in terms of ethics and stupidity. Now I get why they fired him for it but it definitely exposes some past moral failings. Hell, I just watched a SmackDown from 2001 where Right to Censor did a salute of their own and it was essentially a Nazi salute.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 12:57:25 GMT -5
I mean it was already brought up but ...looks over at JBL. And he did that IN GERMANY! not that doing it anywhere else makes it any less stupid etc but see where I am getting at here with this company and their inconsistent bullshit. Not inconsistent at all. If they like you or see value, you get away with it. It's the way its always been, probably always will. And that is the only consistent thing about the company is that you toe the line and never talk about where they hide the dead bodies you will looked after no matter what you do or how far you fall. They are currently sitting at about -000000000.0 in integrity.
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chazraps
Wade Wilson
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Post by chazraps on Apr 7, 2022 12:58:19 GMT -5
Which might just make WWE look worse for how quick they reacted to this but how they'll sit on Riddle's stuff or flaunt Gable Steveson like the next new big thing, knowing full well what's attached to him and isn't going away. Not to mention keeping Velveteen Dream hired for like... a half a year too long if not longer.The issue that I have and will always have with this is that he was set up by someone that was in a racist chat group. The issue that I have and will always have with this is that he was set up by someone that was in a racist chat group. He was also proved to be innocent in my eyes. "What school do you go to?" could literally mean wrestling school. He shouldn't have been messaging teenagers but I truly believe he was set up here. And it cost him his career. But that one wasn't the only one. There were multiple allegations with evidence.
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Post by darbus alan on Apr 7, 2022 12:58:45 GMT -5
So… Asuka’s next for once dressing as a Nazi a decade or whatever ago, right? Doubt it. People have already tried coming for her with that stuff and missed entirely. She's also apologized for that stuff. It was part of a character she played in Japan, which views nazism a hell of a lot differently than westerners do. There's a massive culture difference between the western world and Asia when it comes to this kind of stuff. www.vice.com/en/article/xd5bdd/nazis-chic-is-asias-offensive-fashion-craze-456Also in Japanese schools while they study WWII, its mainly focused on the Japanese side of things, they don't really touch on Germany and Italy much, if at all. They don't really educate much on the Japanese side of things either. Well, anything that makes them look at all culpable for anything, anyway.
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pinja
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Post by pinja on Apr 7, 2022 13:00:20 GMT -5
And it was a stupid thing to do by JBL. However, he did it in Germany because he knew it'd garner him heat. Aas far as I'm aware he wasn't charged and/or convicted doing so, likely it was considered as part of a performance. Could Nash Carter claim the same? I doubt that. I feel like doing a Nazi salute in Germany as part of a WWE sponsored performance to anger people (including Jews in the arena) is magnitudes worse than what Nash did both in terms of ethics and stupidity. Now I get why they fired him for it but it definitely exposes some past moral failings. Hell, I just watched a SmackDown from 2001 where Right to Censor did a salute of their own and it was essentially a Nazi salute. Which is fine and personal/societal morals matter in these cases (my morals being: ditch any Nazi shit). But: There's a legal difference due to conflicts of norms. Nash Carter would have likely commited a crime by German law, JBL not. I also think these days are especially delicate when it comes to evoking nazism.
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Post by Celexa Bliss on Apr 7, 2022 13:14:40 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but where you rank in the eyes of management really does affect how your punished. JBL did the salute in Germany and won the World Title. Jericho was nearly arrested for kicking the Brazilian flag and was merely suspended for thirty days. Jimmy Uso's had like five DUI arrests and is part of the top heel stable in the company and the longest reigning Smackdown Tag Team Champions.
Then you have guys like Dream, Ryker, Wuertz and Lars, who were spared for months (or years) because WWE saw something in them. They just kept them on the DL, hoping things would die down. When they didn't, they buried their releases as "Budget Cuts".
They cut their losses immediately with Nash because he simply wasn't worth it in their eyes. Nothing else to it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 7, 2022 13:29:54 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but where you rank in the eyes of management really does affect how your punished. JBL did the salute in Germany and won the World Title. Jericho was nearly arrested for kicking the Brazilian flag and was merely suspended for thirty days. Jimmy Uso's had like five DUI arrests and is part of the top heel stable in the company and the longest reigning Smackdown Tag Team Champions. Then you have guys like Dream, Ryker, Wuertz and Lars, who were spared for months (or years) because WWE saw something in them. They just kept them on the DL, hoping things would die down. When they didn't, they buried their releases as "Budget Cuts". They cut their losses immediately with Nash because he simply wasn't worth it in their eyes. Nothing else to it. If this company was based on talent hooy boy would this company look so much different right now and IMO not to absolve him because he of course had his people of course everyone does but it felt like HHH was trying to push the company towards a more talent will rise to the top direction instead of the...which higher ups ass have you kissed today....and did you bring them coffee that it is now.
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Post by Dave the Dave on Apr 7, 2022 13:37:27 GMT -5
They fired Brad Maddox for saying “cocky pricks”. They fired Nash for optics, not morality.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 7, 2022 13:42:09 GMT -5
As a general comment though, physical/verbal/sexual abuse in a relationship isn't straightforward. Nobody starts a relationship being abusive - that comes out later. The disconnect between someone being loving and someone being abusive is confusing, and something our brains aren't really wired to deal with. So accounts become confused and dates and events might get mixed up. People may say one thing while it's happening and then something completely different when they have distance. Searching through social media accounts to try and get people and find inconsistencies is not the gotcha that people think it is and only succeeds at creating a culture that stops victims from coming forward. This can't be overstated. I am very very worried this narrative will crystalize that because she showed the photo and got him fired, which was obviously a vindictive move, then That's More Evidence she was lying about the abuse to be vindictive. Which ignores the obvious and likely possibility she was telling the truth about the abuse to be vindictive. You don't have to celebrate his fall or approve of everything (or anything) Kim's doing, but everyone really should just be mindful about falling into the trap where only perfect victims can be victims.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Apr 7, 2022 14:00:00 GMT -5
They fired Brad Maddox for saying “cocky pricks”. They fired Nash for optics, not morality. They fired Maddox becuase they were just looking for any reason to, honestly.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 7, 2022 14:21:46 GMT -5
So Alvarez just mentioned on WOL he was told that the reason WWE put the belts on MSK despite the deleted tweets was that the powers that be did not believe Kimber Lee was a credible narrator.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Apr 7, 2022 14:24:41 GMT -5
So Alvarez just mentioned on WOL he was told that the reason WWE put the belts on MSK despite the deleted tweets was that the powers that be did not believe Kimber Lee was a credible narrator. I can believe that, her social media comes off very all over the place. They also have personally dealt with her, this entire thing doesn't make either of them look good.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Apr 7, 2022 14:28:06 GMT -5
I hate to say it, but where you rank in the eyes of management really does affect how your punished. JBL did the salute in Germany and won the World Title. Jericho was nearly arrested for kicking the Brazilian flag and was merely suspended for thirty days. Jimmy Uso's had like five DUI arrests and is part of the top heel stable in the company and the longest reigning Smackdown Tag Team Champions. Then you have guys like Dream, Ryker, Wuertz and Lars, who were spared for months (or years) because WWE saw something in them. They just kept them on the DL, hoping things would die down. When they didn't, they buried their releases as "Budget Cuts". They cut their losses immediately with Nash because he simply wasn't worth it in their eyes. Nothing else to it. If this company was based on talent hooy boy would this company look so much different right now and IMO not to absolve him because he of course had his people of course everyone does but it felt like HHH was trying to push the company towards a more talent will rise to the top direction instead of the...which higher ups ass have you kissed today....and did you bring them coffee that it is now. Triple H grew up an NWA fan where it was all about workrate and guys that could really go rose to the top....When Vince is left to his own devices he will always go back to the 80s, big men and big muscles.
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Post by oxbaker on Apr 7, 2022 14:47:38 GMT -5
And it was a stupid thing to do by JBL. However, he did it in Germany because he knew it'd garner him heat. Aas far as I'm aware he wasn't charged and/or convicted doing so, likely it was considered as part of a performance. Could Nash Carter claim the same? I doubt that. I feel like doing a Nazi salute in Germany as part of a WWE sponsored performance to anger people (including Jews in the arena) is magnitudes worse than what Nash did both in terms of ethics and stupidity. Now I get why they fired him for it but it definitely exposes some past moral failings. Hell, I just watched a SmackDown from 2001 where Right to Censor did a salute of their own and it was essentially a Nazi salute. Whatever you do, don’t watch The Producers. What a person does in character at a performance to get a reaction (of whatever type) for an audience isn’t the same as what a person comes up with on their own — nothing prompted Carter to do this. I get so tired of ‘but but but he was just edgelord and I did stuff too.’ Anyone Nash’s age grew up knowing anything on social media could come back to bite you. It happens all the times. As kids they get told this all the time. If this is the kind of thing he’d come up with that he thinks would impress his friends, that tells me something about him. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Apr 7, 2022 14:53:24 GMT -5
With the JBL thing (besides being whataboutism here.) What he did is Illegal. Literally you are not allowed to do that in Germany.
He also suffered some consequences from it I think he was suspended/fined and had to issue a public apology. (I think he might have lost his show too? unrelated to the WWE)
it also happened like... almost 20 years ago?
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Post by Big DSR Energy on Apr 7, 2022 14:58:07 GMT -5
With the JBL thing (besides being whataboutism here.) What he did is Illegal. Literally you are not allowed to do that in Germany. He also suffered some consequences from it I think he was suspended/fined and had to issue a public apology. (I think he might have lost his show too? unrelated to the WWE)it also happened like... almost 20 years ago? Hired at CNBC, then was let go as a result of the incident.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Apr 7, 2022 15:33:12 GMT -5
It can all be true that WWE is wildly inconsistent with how they handle these situations, Kim's not a credible narrator and Nash is kind of a shmuck. At the least, a shmuck. I've got mixed feelings in general about this situation and it's hard to take a definitive stance.
That said, what I do know is that it doesn't sit right with me that they fired him for what looks to be a 5-year-old photograph. I don't think he's a nazi, I think he was stupid and took a dumb photo that was sent to somebody on Snapchat. I don't know that it should cost someone their livelihood. If it came out that he was in fact committing domestic abuse, that's another story.
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on Apr 7, 2022 15:54:21 GMT -5
It can all be true that WWE is wildly inconsistent with how they handle these situations, Kim's not a credible narrator and Nash is kind of a shmuck. At the least, a shmuck. I've got mixed feelings in general about this situation and it's hard to take a definitive stance. That said, what I do know is that it doesn't sit right with me that they fired him for what looks to be a 5-year-old photograph. I don't think he's a nazi, I think he was stupid and took a dumb photo that was sent to somebody on Snapchat. I don't know that it should cost someone their livelihood. If it came out that he was in fact committing domestic abuse, that's another story. My issue with firing him over the photo isn’t the photo, the photo was dumb and theoretically a fireable offense. My issue is that’s a screen shotted Snapchat, meaning this was a private joke made between friends. As far as I’ve seen, he never posted that picture publicly himself, he never went out to the mall like that, it was a poor taste joke made in private and I’m not super comfortable with firing someone over that.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Apr 7, 2022 16:00:02 GMT -5
It can all be true that WWE is wildly inconsistent with how they handle these situations, Kim's not a credible narrator and Nash is kind of a shmuck. At the least, a shmuck. I've got mixed feelings in general about this situation and it's hard to take a definitive stance. That said, what I do know is that it doesn't sit right with me that they fired him for what looks to be a 5-year-old photograph. I don't think he's a nazi, I think he was stupid and took a dumb photo that was sent to somebody on Snapchat. I don't know that it should cost someone their livelihood. If it came out that he was in fact committing domestic abuse, that's another story. My issue with firing him over the photo isn’t the photo, the photo was dumb and theoretically a fireable offense. My issue is that’s a screen shotted Snapchat, meaning this was a private joke made between friends. As far as I’ve seen, he never posted that picture publicly himself, he never went out to the mall like that, it was a poor taste joke made in private and I’m not super comfortable with firing someone over that. Kimber Lee seems like a toxic person in general, she's had multiple relationships end badly and she blew them up on social media. If anything he's guilty of deciding it was a good idea to be with a person like that which at the root of it suggests he has issues also.
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