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Post by sungod2020 on Feb 9, 2022 19:50:38 GMT -5
Here's one I never got - Owen Hart was given the Blue Blazer gimmick as a punishment for not doing an adultery angle with Debra. Yeah, we all know how it (unfortunately) ended, but at the time, it was a very fun angle to play kayfabe to, especially with multiple people parading around as Hart's superhero ego. Given Owen's sense of humor, it wouldn't be a stretch to say he enjoyed it.
Also, how could it be a punishment if he was rumored to win the IC title(from The Godfather) the night of his death? And why would they fire him if he refused to do the stunt, if he was penciled in to win the belt? To me, the rumored outcome sounds like a reward for getting the gimmick over. They could've gradually turned him face and sell some masks afterwards.
In the event they did fire him for refusing to do the stunt, he could've sued the company for wrongful termination for making him work unsafe conditions. Just imagine the wildfire the WWF would've dealt with at the time, which garnered enough flak from the media for the content they were producing at the time.
None of this adds up.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 8:19:56 GMT -5
Here's another one. For the longest time, after Shawn Michaels defeated Bret "The Hitman" Hart at Wrestlemania XII to win the WWF championship, he told the referee that he wanted The Hitman to get the f*** out of his ring, however that was actually meant for his manager Jose Lothario which lines up with the video footage as you see Shawn whispering something to the referee and then he goes to Lothario and Lothario leaves the ring accordingly. Plus, Bret was already out of the ring when this happened. Still disrespectful though.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 14, 2022 9:58:34 GMT -5
The Koko B Ware argument became redundant anyway as soon as Torrie Wilson was inducted. She's the new low bar. I'm from the future. I have to tell you about someone from Booker T's family.
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 14, 2022 10:24:01 GMT -5
It's even worse that Shawn ordered Earl, not himself Shawn BUT Earl to get Jose out of the ring. You can see how dejected Jose looked when Earl told him. If I were Jose, I would have never come back to work with Shawn. But the rumors have always been Jose himself never really trained Shawn but took his money and had others do the training. When a Ken Johnson from Texas died recently, Kayfabe Memories cited him as the actual trainer of Shawn. Of course, years later it was said that Shawn never did actual training at his school but had others do it.
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Post by sungod2020 on Apr 14, 2022 10:53:00 GMT -5
It's even worse that Shawn ordered Earl, not himself Shawn BUT Earl to get Jose out of the ring. You can see how dejected Jose looked when Earl told him. If I were Jose, I would have never come back to work with Shawn. But the rumors have always been Jose himself never really trained Shawn but took his money and had others do the training. When a Ken Johnson from Texas died recently, Kayfabe Memories cited him as the actual trainer of Shawn. Of course, years later it was said that Shawn never did actual training at his school but had others do it. If I was Jose, I would break character and slap him, thus ruining his Wrestlemania moment. Wouldn't have anything to lose at that point since I wouldn't be around. If the rumors of him being a "take the money and let others do the work" was true, can't say I blame Shawn for not wanting him around. Still dosen't excuse his backstage behavior towards others though. One thing that I don't understand though is if HBK didn't want Lothario around, why couldn't he tell Jose or Vince that? It's not like Lothario added into to Shawn's character.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Apr 14, 2022 18:45:46 GMT -5
It's even worse that Shawn ordered Earl, not himself Shawn BUT Earl to get Jose out of the ring. You can see how dejected Jose looked when Earl told him. If I were Jose, I would have never come back to work with Shawn. But the rumors have always been Jose himself never really trained Shawn but took his money and had others do the training. When a Ken Johnson from Texas died recently, Kayfabe Memories cited him as the actual trainer of Shawn. Of course, years later it was said that Shawn never did actual training at his school but had others do it. From all accounts Rudy Boy Gonzalez was thr head trainer
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Post by jason1980s on Apr 14, 2022 19:56:14 GMT -5
If I was Jose, I would break character and slap him, thus ruining his Wrestlemania moment. Wouldn't have anything to lose at that point since I wouldn't be around. If the rumors of him being a "take the money and let others do the work" was true, can't say I blame Shawn for not wanting him around. Still dosen't excuse his backstage behavior towards others though. One thing that I don't understand though is if HBK didn't want Lothario around, why couldn't he tell Jose or Vince that? It's not like Lothario added into to Shawn's character. That's one of those times I'd like to be a fly on the wall, like when Vince proposed the Jose spot. Shawn should have been man enough to tell Vince it wasn't a good idea. I'm sure Jose liked the pay day and it's the most famous he would ever be. No offense to him but I doubt we'd ever make mention of him without that short run as Shawn's mentor in WWF. Not only did having ancient looking Jose not make sense but Shawn was such an awful human being in real life nothing about this mentor/wrestler partnership made sense. Vince was so in love with Shawn the performer and the angle of the Wrestlemania moment, he would be willing to do anything.
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The Blue Nova
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Post by The Blue Nova on Apr 14, 2022 20:16:08 GMT -5
If I was Jose, I would break character and slap him, thus ruining his Wrestlemania moment. Wouldn't have anything to lose at that point since I wouldn't be around. If the rumors of him being a "take the money and let others do the work" was true, can't say I blame Shawn for not wanting him around. Still dosen't excuse his backstage behavior towards others though. One thing that I don't understand though is if HBK didn't want Lothario around, why couldn't he tell Jose or Vince that? It's not like Lothario added into to Shawn's character. That's one of those times I'd like to be a fly on the wall, like when Vince proposed the Jose spot. Shawn should have been man enough to tell Vince it wasn't a good idea. I'm sure Jose liked the pay day and it's the most famous he would ever be. No offense to him but I doubt we'd ever make mention of him without that short run as Shawn's mentor in WWF. Not only did having ancient looking Jose not make sense but Shawn was such an awful human being in real life nothing about this mentor/wrestler partnership made sense. Vince was so in love with Shawn the performer and the angle of the Wrestlemania moment, he would be willing to do anything. I think they were trying to go with a pairing ala Rocky Balboa and Micky from the rocky movies.. and trying to push hbk as this under dog babyface with his mentor. It didn't work
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Post by Toilet Paper Roll on Apr 14, 2022 20:21:28 GMT -5
He (Jose) should have been in the stands, front row to hug Shawn when he left the ring. After he got KO'd and had a heart attack costing Shawn the title that should have been it for him on TV.
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The Blue Nova
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Post by The Blue Nova on Apr 14, 2022 20:23:29 GMT -5
I don't know if this is more revisionist history from the WWE but Austin becoming a megastar the minute he won King of the ring he became a main event star. When In reality Austin was still a midcard guy as the next month he had a rematch against Wildman Marc Mero at the July PPV wrestled Yokozuna on the pre show at Summerslam didn't even have a match at mind games and then had a random heel vs heel match against Hunter which was used more to push the storyline between Hunter and Mr Perfect. He had a pretty good match with Bret at Survior Series and he did show promise, but still didn't have that main event push and he wrestled goldust on a post ppv dark match in December. Even when he won the rumble chances are if HBK hadn't lost his smile Bret would of won that 4 way match to main event against HBK at mania that year, Instead they went with Austin and Bret at Mania 13 and that is what started his transitioned to the main event and building him up to wrestle mania 14 for the belt.
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Post by wildojinx on Apr 14, 2022 22:59:17 GMT -5
While Lawler/Andy Kaufman was a tremendous feud, it didnt draw much money from what I've heard. It didnt exactly get that much media attention either, aside from the David Letterman appearance (and that show was seen more as an "experimental" show at that time anyway), and even then, Lawler was seen as a thug beating up a harmless comedian. Hardly wrestling's first mainstream exposure.
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Post by Mid-Carder on Apr 15, 2022 5:53:09 GMT -5
The Koko B Ware argument became redundant anyway as soon as Torrie Wilson was inducted. She's the new low bar. I'm from the future. I have to tell you about someone from Booker T's family. Oh yeah Torrie is Charlotte Flair in comparison
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Post by karl100589 on Apr 15, 2022 6:21:04 GMT -5
I don't get why Hogan got so much crap for his "The WWE Belt is a toy" promo in Japan. He was working in Japan at the time so it made sense for him to put over their belt.
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Sephiroth
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Post by Sephiroth on Apr 15, 2022 6:39:58 GMT -5
If I was Jose, I would break character and slap him, thus ruining his Wrestlemania moment. Wouldn't have anything to lose at that point since I wouldn't be around. If the rumors of him being a "take the money and let others do the work" was true, can't say I blame Shawn for not wanting him around. Still dosen't excuse his backstage behavior towards others though. One thing that I don't understand though is if HBK didn't want Lothario around, why couldn't he tell Jose or Vince that? It's not like Lothario added into to Shawn's character. That's one of those times I'd like to be a fly on the wall, like when Vince proposed the Jose spot. Shawn should have been man enough to tell Vince it wasn't a good idea. I'm sure Jose liked the pay day and it's the most famous he would ever be. No offense to him but I doubt we'd ever make mention of him without that short run as Shawn's mentor in WWF. Not only did having ancient looking Jose not make sense but Shawn was such an awful human being in real life nothing about this mentor/wrestler partnership made sense. Vince was so in love with Shawn the performer and the angle of the Wrestlemania moment, he would be willing to do anything. It was mentioned in another thread a while back; the thing to do would have been to keep Shawn a heel and put Sunny in his corner as his manager.
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Post by wildojinx on Apr 15, 2022 8:37:48 GMT -5
I don't get why Hogan got so much crap for his "The WWE Belt is a toy" promo in Japan. He was working in Japan at the time so it made sense for him to put over their belt. He could have done something like "I'd like to be both WWF AND IWGP" champion, but that might have been too heelish.
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Post by TOK Is the Target Demo on Apr 15, 2022 9:53:32 GMT -5
Raven: Great mind for the business. I've watched plenty of ECW and WCW, Impact too. And while Raven did very good character work for the most part, I don't know of any segments or shows that Raven produced to prove this. It's just sort of accepted, though less so today than 2000's era. Being a great character (like Jake Roberts) does not always correlate to business metrics benefitting. Raven was hardly someone who shifted momentum in business or made much difference in the grand scheme of things, so if he truly was a great mind, more promoters should have watched his guest booker DVDs I guess? The whole Raven/Dreamer/Sandman feud was massive in getting ECW over as more than the workrate/hardcore indy. Raven was also BEYOND over in WCW with the Flock, he was moving so much merch that they threw him on the cover of their video game.
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Post by EZ: Brainy Bae on Apr 15, 2022 22:02:25 GMT -5
Less so now, for obvious reasons, but Benoit's title run after WM20 being underwhelming or overshadowed by Triple H.
No, he wasn't a Cena or Hogan-like figure, but it was a pretty damn good "thank-you" run for a vet who didn't have much charisma or range. He won the title in what was then one of the most fondly-received moments in the company's history. Heroically defended the title in his hometown at Backlash AND finally gave HBK some kayfabe payback for the Screw-job. Became a double-champion with Edge. Beat the 2nd biggest heel in Kane on the strength of his wrestling. The only time he didn't main event a big RAW show was Bad Blood, and that was for a HIAC match to conclude a rivalry that had been going on for two years.
Yes, the Triple H feud involved Eugene... and it worked. At no point was the crowd not on Benoit's side or reacting to Eugene or Triple H's involvement in a way other than intended. Eugene got more over as a face and HHH added more despicableness without getting the title back. In both the Vengeance and Iron Man match (another prominent moment for him btw) he was clearly presented as the better man and it was only through cheating and interference that HHH had any believability of winning. Apart from beating HBK it's probably the longest period of time HHH spent getting his just desserts.
The reign ended exactly as it should have - putting over a young new star cleanly in the 2nd biggest show of the year. That handshake doesn't cement Orton if he hadn't been presented as the top dog. It was the first time someone had clearly gotten the better of him.
Rey after WM 22 .... now that's a bad reign.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on Apr 16, 2022 4:30:41 GMT -5
I don't get why Hogan got so much crap for his "The WWE Belt is a toy" promo in Japan. He was working in Japan at the time so it made sense for him to put over their belt. I'm pretty sure there is some middle ground between 'putting over the Japanese title more' and 'utterly burying the American belt to Japanese press'
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Glitch
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Post by Glitch on Apr 16, 2022 18:18:36 GMT -5
TNA's reaction to the rob feinstein scandal in ROH being made to look like "lol tna!". It is perfectly reasonable for a company not to want their workers to wrestle for a pedophile. The move did damage relations between tna and roh for years after, but that's Rob's fault. Not TNA's.
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Post by Mozenrath on Apr 16, 2022 18:24:37 GMT -5
I don't get why Hogan got so much crap for his "The WWE Belt is a toy" promo in Japan. He was working in Japan at the time so it made sense for him to put over their belt. I'm pretty sure there is some middle ground between 'putting over the Japanese title more' and 'utterly burying the American belt to Japanese press' Right, had he said something like, "I have never won the IWGP world heavyweight title. It would be a tremendous honor to win it." or something along those lines, no one would think anything of that.
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