Ben Wyatt
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Post by Ben Wyatt on Apr 27, 2022 10:54:09 GMT -5
In The Dark Knight when the Joker was all like "Well I really don't have a plan" only to have pretty much all of his schemes work out because seemingly every last detail was meticulously calculated in advance. That contradiction irked some viewers, but personally I liked it because it's true to the contradictory nature of the Joker character (Saying one thing and totally does the opposite helps to maintain that chaotic image. Plus subverting expectations is one of the cornerstones of comedy.) Because as the animated version of Batman would often say: "Nothing is ever easy with the Joker." I dunno. I kinda hate that his plans all involved 15 different things happening and/or people reacting to stuff that if just one of them is different, then his plan would conceivably fail
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 27, 2022 11:01:21 GMT -5
The Death Star was designed to blow up terrestrial planets. They hadn't tested it on any gas giants and have no way to know whether the mass of Yavin would simply just eat the superlaser, which would have then required them to wait an entire day to recharge the reactors powering it. It's better to simply take the time to go around the planet and blow up the moon. That way you remove the uncertainty of the situation. I still like the idea that just putting the Death Star in near orbit of a planet would be catastrophic. Imagine how extreme our tides would be if the moon just randomly moved 90% closer to Earth. The magnetic fields would be all kinds of f'ed up. Likely mass earthquakes from shifting magma. The entire planet would be death and chaos, and that's before even the first person looked up and saw a giant superweapon pointing at them. TLDR: The Death Star would likely destroy a planet simply by parking next to it. No, it would not. The Death Star, as massive as it is, is still a hollow ball that doesn't come close to the actual mass of any real planetoid its size. The Moon, however, is actually quite massive. Starkiller Base, on the other hand, is made from a bizarrely small terrestrial planet that is still able to hold onto a breathable atmosphere, meaning that it was incredibly dense (I'm guessing kyber crystals are exotic enough to make this happen?). Park that in low orbit and it would wreck havoc on a planet. Actually, you could not park either superweapon that close to a planet for very long as that might be within the planet's roche limit. The planet would tear the superweapon apart through gravitational forces.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 27, 2022 11:03:22 GMT -5
In The Dark Knight when the Joker was all like "Well I really don't have a plan" only to have pretty much all of his schemes work out because seemingly every last detail was meticulously calculated in advance. That contradiction irked some viewers, but personally I liked it because it's true to the contradictory nature of the Joker character (Saying one thing and totally does the opposite helps to maintain that chaotic image. Plus subverting expectations is one of the cornerstones of comedy.) Because as the animated version of Batman would often say: "Nothing is ever easy with the Joker." I dunno. I kinda hate that his plans all involved 15 different things happening and/or people reacting to stuff that if just one of them is different, then his plan would conceivably fail Actually, a very well thought out plan would involve about 90% of your plans not being necessary, as your targets' choices would eliminate the need for many of the things you set up. Just because we did not see anything else the Joker set up, doesn't mean he did not set up things that were rendered unnecessary.
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Post by Mighty Attack Tribble on Apr 27, 2022 11:12:08 GMT -5
I know that's blasphemy to say because of Ledger, but The Dark Knight is riddled with plot holes. Rewatched it recently and it really kind sucks when you put thought into it TDK really hangs a lot on the performances of Ledger and Eckhart. So much of it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. An American vigilante kidnapping a Chinese citizen in China and dumping him on the steps of an American police department who promptly place him under arrest alone would cause an international political shitstorm.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Apr 27, 2022 11:12:33 GMT -5
I dunno. I kinda hate that his plans all involved 15 different things happening and/or people reacting to stuff that if just one of them is different, then his plan would conceivably fail Actually, a very well thought out plan would involve about 90% of your plans not being necessary, as your targets' choices would eliminate the need for many of the things you set up. Just because we did not see anything else the Joker set up, doesn't mean he did not set up things that were rendered unnecessary. The ending kind of winds up confirming that if one thing doesn't go the way he thought the whole thing falls apart. He totally depended on one or both boats pressing the button to blow the other up. Neither does and has to fall back on the back up. Can surmise he might have had back ups for the other plans too.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 27, 2022 11:32:04 GMT -5
I still like the idea that just putting the Death Star in near orbit of a planet would be catastrophic. Imagine how extreme our tides would be if the moon just randomly moved 90% closer to Earth. The magnetic fields would be all kinds of f'ed up. Likely mass earthquakes from shifting magma. The entire planet would be death and chaos, and that's before even the first person looked up and saw a giant superweapon pointing at them. TLDR: The Death Star would likely destroy a planet simply by parking next to it. No, it would not. The Death Star, as massive as it is, is still a hollow ball that doesn't come close to the actual mass of any real planetoid its size. The Moon, however, is actually quite massive. Starkiller Base, on the other hand, is made from a bizarrely small terrestrial planet that is still able to hold onto a breathable atmosphere, meaning that it was incredibly dense (I'm guessing kyber crystals are exotic enough to make this happen?). Park that in low orbit and it would wreck havoc on a planet. Actually, you could not park either superweapon that close to a planet for very long as that might be within the planet's roche limit. The planet would tear the superweapon apart through gravitational forces. Well yeah but, space wizard physics my dude
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 27, 2022 11:33:13 GMT -5
I know that's blasphemy to say because of Ledger, but The Dark Knight is riddled with plot holes. Rewatched it recently and it really kind sucks when you put thought into it TDK really hangs a lot on the performances of Ledger and Eckhart. So much of it just doesn't hold up to scrutiny. An American vigilante kidnapping a Chinese citizen in China and dumping him on the steps of an American police department who promptly place him under arrest alone would cause an international political shitstorm. Yes and no. Everyone first heard of Dog the Bounty Hunter because he did that very thing (not in China, but in Mexico, I think). He was sent to jail for it but the guy he brought back still had to face the justice system since his illegal apprehension was not perpetuated by the actual authorities.
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Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on Apr 27, 2022 12:15:28 GMT -5
Man, The Dark Knight Rises has aged like rancid goat milk. What a poorly written movie it is. How about why does Bruce Wayne lease his cars? shouldn't trust fund Billionaire playboy doesn't just buy out dealerships for fun... not to mention like... literally every other interaction with money in the movie is like written by someone who has apparently never used it? like they immediately cut the power to the house and water after Bruce loses the stocks... like... were the bills due? was Bruce not paying his bills before hand cause that's the only way they get shut off... not to mention... gee gunmen attacked the stock market... and then suddenly the next day Bruce Wayne mysteriously lost all of his shares? ... like the entire Stock Market wouldn't have closed immediately after an attack... or that like the SEC wouldn't roll everything back after an obvious hacking attempt like that? Also, say that Bruce suddenly lost everything, the guy was a genius ceo for years, you're saying banks and investors wouldn't be falling over each other to bail him out and give him loans so he could start another big project, another company approaches him with a high level job?
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Apr 27, 2022 12:52:43 GMT -5
Since we're discussing Star Wars, the entire plot of Episode 1 still makes no sense to me. Trad Federation blockades a planet for some reason, then invades the planet illegally and tries to get the Head of State to make their military invasion and occupation legal. Like, did they honestly think she would just go "You're killing my people and taking over my planet, this all seems to be in order." What was their long term goal exactly? Why we she approve this? WHY DIDN'T THE SENATE BELEIVE THE EXILED QUEEN AND TWO JEDI KNIGHTS?
Oh and before you smart asses try to tell me that is was explained in some book published ten years later don't bother. If it's not explained in the movie then it's a plot hole and somebody else trying to fix Lucas's crappy writing after the fact only makes it worse.
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Johnny B. Decent
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Post by Johnny B. Decent on Apr 27, 2022 12:59:28 GMT -5
Since we're discussing Star Wars, the entire plot of Episode 1 still makes no sense to me. Trad Federation blockades a planet for some reason, then invades the planet illegally and tries to get the Head of State to make their military invasion and occupation legal. Like, did they honestly think she would just go "You're killing my people and taking over my planet, this all seems to be in order." What was their long term goal exactly? Why we she approve this? WHY DIDN'T THE SENATE BELEIVE THE EXILED QUEEN AND TWO JEDI KNIGHTS? Oh and before you smart asses try to tell me that is was explained in some book published ten years later don't bother. If it's not explained in the movie then it's a plot hole and somebody else trying to fix Lucas's crappy writing after the fact only makes it worse. I don't think the TF expected her to sign it willingly, but that she had to do it to save her planet from being ravaged. And the Senate was now a massive, ineffective, corrupt and bloated entity. They didn't really care too much about some backwater planet in the Outer Rim...until a certain native from there pulled some strings.
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Push R Truth
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 27, 2022 13:03:37 GMT -5
Since we're discussing Star Wars, the entire plot of Episode 1 still makes no sense to me. Trad Federation blockades a planet for some reason, then invades the planet illegally and tries to get the Head of State to make their military invasion and occupation legal. Like, did they honestly think she would just go "You're killing my people and taking over my planet, this all seems to be in order." What was their long term goal exactly? Why we she approve this? WHY DIDN'T THE SENATE BELEIVE THE EXILED QUEEN AND TWO JEDI KNIGHTS? Oh and before you smart asses try to tell me that is was explained in some book published ten years later don't bother. If it's not explained in the movie then it's a plot hole and somebody else trying to fix Lucas's crappy writing after the fact only makes it worse. The first paragraph isn't too far off from current events in Eastern Europe.
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Feyrhausen
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Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 27, 2022 13:11:14 GMT -5
How about why does Bruce Wayne lease his cars? shouldn't trust fund Billionaire playboy doesn't just buy out dealerships for fun... not to mention like... literally every other interaction with money in the movie is like written by someone who has apparently never used it? like they immediately cut the power to the house and water after Bruce loses the stocks... like... were the bills due? was Bruce not paying his bills before hand cause that's the only way they get shut off... not to mention... gee gunmen attacked the stock market... and then suddenly the next day Bruce Wayne mysteriously lost all of his shares? ... like the entire Stock Market wouldn't have closed immediately after an attack... or that like the SEC wouldn't roll everything back after an obvious hacking attempt like that? Also, say that Bruce suddenly lost everything, the guy was a genius ceo for years, you're saying banks and investors wouldn't be falling over each other to bail him out and give him loans so he could start another big project, another company approaches him with a high level job? He had been a thought to be crazy recluse for several years. And no one considered Bruce a genius billionaire. He was the rich twit while Lucius ran things. But yeah the rest is BS. None of the trades would be valid. Bruces stocks may have been tied up in the investigation for awhile but he would have some personal fortune to rely on.
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Dr. T is an alien
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 27, 2022 13:47:20 GMT -5
Since we're discussing Star Wars, the entire plot of Episode 1 still makes no sense to me. Trad Federation blockades a planet for some reason, then invades the planet illegally and tries to get the Head of State to make their military invasion and occupation legal. Like, did they honestly think she would just go "You're killing my people and taking over my planet, this all seems to be in order." What was their long term goal exactly? Why we she approve this? WHY DIDN'T THE SENATE BELEIVE THE EXILED QUEEN AND TWO JEDI KNIGHTS? Oh and before you smart asses try to tell me that is was explained in some book published ten years later don't bother. If it's not explained in the movie then it's a plot hole and somebody else trying to fix Lucas's crappy writing after the fact only makes it worse. Honestly, that plot is less convoluted than you think. Ask the Chinese government about the British negotiation tactics for "renting" Hong Kong for 100 years.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 27, 2022 14:08:13 GMT -5
Case of one that kind of completely destroys the logic of a movie that I love anyway - Your Name and the giant question about how they never noticed the days of the week being different. They do kind of have a bit of a justification in the idea that their level of recall is sort of fuzzy but it still kind of strains credibility that none of their notes to each other make them realize the inconsistency.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 27, 2022 14:09:18 GMT -5
I still like the idea that just putting the Death Star in near orbit of a planet would be catastrophic. Imagine how extreme our tides would be if the moon just randomly moved 90% closer to Earth. The magnetic fields would be all kinds of f'ed up. Likely mass earthquakes from shifting magma. The entire planet would be death and chaos, and that's before even the first person looked up and saw a giant superweapon pointing at them. TLDR: The Death Star would likely destroy a planet simply by parking next to it. No, it would not. The Death Star, as massive as it is, is still a hollow ball that doesn't come close to the actual mass of any real planetoid its size. The Moon, however, is actually quite massive. Starkiller Base, on the other hand, is made from a bizarrely small terrestrial planet that is still able to hold onto a breathable atmosphere, meaning that it was incredibly dense (I'm guessing kyber crystals are exotic enough to make this happen?). Park that in low orbit and it would wreck havoc on a planet. Actually, you could not park either superweapon that close to a planet for very long as that might be within the planet's roche limit. The planet would tear the superweapon apart through gravitational forces. If you try to think about the physics and logistics of anything involving Starkiller Base or how it works you're going to have a very, very bad time.
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Post by Zaq "That Guy" Buzzkill on Apr 27, 2022 14:29:09 GMT -5
No, it would not. The Death Star, as massive as it is, is still a hollow ball that doesn't come close to the actual mass of any real planetoid its size. The Moon, however, is actually quite massive. Starkiller Base, on the other hand, is made from a bizarrely small terrestrial planet that is still able to hold onto a breathable atmosphere, meaning that it was incredibly dense (I'm guessing kyber crystals are exotic enough to make this happen?). Park that in low orbit and it would wreck havoc on a planet. Actually, you could not park either superweapon that close to a planet for very long as that might be within the planet's roche limit. The planet would tear the superweapon apart through gravitational forces. If you try to think about the physics and logistics of anything involving Starkiller Base or how it works you're going to have a very, very bad time. Force magic or something.
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Dr. T is an alien
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Dr. T is an alien on Apr 27, 2022 14:49:47 GMT -5
No, it would not. The Death Star, as massive as it is, is still a hollow ball that doesn't come close to the actual mass of any real planetoid its size. The Moon, however, is actually quite massive. Starkiller Base, on the other hand, is made from a bizarrely small terrestrial planet that is still able to hold onto a breathable atmosphere, meaning that it was incredibly dense (I'm guessing kyber crystals are exotic enough to make this happen?). Park that in low orbit and it would wreck havoc on a planet. Actually, you could not park either superweapon that close to a planet for very long as that might be within the planet's roche limit. The planet would tear the superweapon apart through gravitational forces. If you try to think about the physics and logistics of anything involving Starkiller Base or how it works you're going to have a very, very bad time. Oh, where to begin? First, Ilum, the planet that was converted into Starkiller Base, had a diameter of 660 km. That is at least definitely large enough to be spherical under normal circumstances. It retains a thick, life supporting atmosphere though, which means that it would have to be far denser than any heavenly body of that diameter that we are familiar with. It need not be as massive as Earth to accomplish this, however, because if it is dense enough with that diameter it can retain an Earth-like atmosphere at a significantly lower mass. Second, they managed to engineer a hyperdrive system capable of lugging a planet around. I'm less impressed about lugging the mass around (there are plenty of ways to do that when you start discussing potential FTL methods) as I am at affecting a large enough plot of space to move a planet. Third, and this was the one that I found trippy, it can draw in the mass of a stellar object, retain it within the diameter of a small planetoid without collapsing in on itself, and then eject the energy at hyperhyperdrive speeds across the galaxy. Fourth, neither drawing in the stellar mass nor firing the superweapon has any effect on the atmosphere of the superweapon. Honestly, the weapon would be a more effective tool of terror if it simply showed up, ate your system's stellar object, and left the system to rapidly freeze.
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Post by YAKMAN is ICHIBAN on Apr 27, 2022 14:52:03 GMT -5
If you try to think about the physics and logistics of anything involving Starkiller Base or how it works you're going to have a very, very bad time. Oh, where to begin? First, Ilum, the planet that was converted into Starkiller Base, had a diameter of 660 km. That is at least definitely large enough to be spherical under normal circumstances. It retains a thick, life supporting atmosphere though, which means that it would have to be far denser than any heavenly body of that diameter that we are familiar with. It need not be as massive as Earth to accomplish this, however, because if it is dense enough with that diameter it can retain an Earth-like atmosphere at a significantly lower mass. Second, they managed to engineer a hyperdrive system capable of lugging a planet around. I'm less impressed about lugging the mass around (there are plenty of ways to do that when you start discussing potential FTL methods) as I am at affecting a large enough plot of space to move a planet. Third, and this was the one that I found trippy, it can draw in the mass of a stellar object, retain it within the diameter of a small planetoid without collapsing in on itself, and then eject the energy at hyperhyperdrive speeds across the galaxy. Fourth, neither drawing in the stellar mass nor firing the superweapon has any effect on the atmosphere of the superweapon. Honestly, the weapon would be a more effective tool of terror if it simply showed up, ate your system's stellar object, and left the system to rapidly freeze. You've already put WAY, WAY more thought into this than JJ Abrams. See also: Everything he did with Star Trek
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Apr 27, 2022 14:55:54 GMT -5
Another Gundam Example this time from SeeD (which technically has compilation movies so I say it counts.)
A big part of the setting is Neutron Jammers have been deployed everywhere making nuclear fission reactors useless. Hence why all mobile suits in the setting are run on battery power and need to return to their ships for a recharge.
Okay... Then what is powering the ships?
I've heard some theories that the ships have fusion reactors to power them, but this theory makes no sense as if fusion power was a thing the April Fools Crisis as laid out in the lore would not have been as bad as stated in the backstory.
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Push R Truth
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Push R Truth on Apr 27, 2022 14:57:00 GMT -5
Oh, where to begin? First, Ilum, the planet that was converted into Starkiller Base, had a diameter of 660 km. That is at least definitely large enough to be spherical under normal circumstances. It retains a thick, life supporting atmosphere though, which means that it would have to be far denser than any heavenly body of that diameter that we are familiar with. It need not be as massive as Earth to accomplish this, however, because if it is dense enough with that diameter it can retain an Earth-like atmosphere at a significantly lower mass. Second, they managed to engineer a hyperdrive system capable of lugging a planet around. I'm less impressed about lugging the mass around (there are plenty of ways to do that when you start discussing potential FTL methods) as I am at affecting a large enough plot of space to move a planet. Third, and this was the one that I found trippy, it can draw in the mass of a stellar object, retain it within the diameter of a small planetoid without collapsing in on itself, and then eject the energy at hyperhyperdrive speeds across the galaxy. Fourth, neither drawing in the stellar mass nor firing the superweapon has any effect on the atmosphere of the superweapon. Honestly, the weapon would be a more effective tool of terror if it simply showed up, ate your system's stellar object, and left the system to rapidly freeze. You've already put WAY, WAY more thought into this than JJ Abrams. See also: Everything he did with Star Trek I still like how you can see, in real time with no delay, the quantiumsuperlazerwhatever from the surface of a "nearby" planet. AND the fact that the folks on the receiving end saw the blast coming directly at them. It's both faster and slower than light at the same time. As for Star Trek, JJ weaponizing transporters and then letting them do stuff blindly from a kabillion miles away basically renders the politics/war/economy of the universe useless. Congrats, you literally just removed the entire reason for everything. I love JJ's movies as popcorn flicks but holy crap does he violate some total baseline "laws" in order to adhere to his story. He has no regards if it completely destroys everything that came before or after.
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