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Post by BorneAgain on Jan 22, 2022 11:14:01 GMT -5
The third season of Star Trek: TOS was a case of bad luck and network/studio politics really hurting the show's potential.
Fred Freiberger was given a particularly bad hand (slashed budget, worse timeslot, and the departure of some of the best writers after season 2), but some of the issues came from him not really being an ideal fit as showrunner or line producer, especially for a rather novel production like ST. Roddenberry not fighting to promote Bob Justman, who had been a major producer on the show for its entire run, meant the series was being overseen by someone lacking the necessary know how in terms of making stories work. Heck, Gene's lack of focus on the show in general (outside shoving in his IDIC pin in an episode so that he could sell it on his mail order catalog) didn't really help.
Given how tumultuous the relationship with the network was, and that NBC had likely already decided the show wasn't worth the headache, Trek was likely always doomed to cancelation, but a few different decisions might have allowed it to go out on a higher note than it did.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jan 22, 2022 11:27:53 GMT -5
It wasn't creative, but...
Vince Guaraldi passes away, Bogas/Goyette take over Peanuts music. And some of the classic feel goes away from the specials.
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Post by thechase on Jan 22, 2022 14:12:16 GMT -5
Classic Doctor Who, Depending on your preference
Hinchcliffe and Holmes to Graham Williams: Show goes from gothic hammer pastiche with an emphasis on violence to a much more family-friendly vibe and energy, with Tom Baker pretty much allowed to play the role his way unrestrained and able to do anything he wants. Douglas Adams comes in half-way and shows the programme what it would look like if it were written by a genius...but, like Moffat, he made for a so-so behind the scenes kitman as script editor.
Graham Williams to John-Nathan Turner: JNT became the first real 'public face' of Doctor Who production, ahead of his time in many ways and making the role of producer just as much a showbiz thing as any actor in the part, but his eagerness to shock and surprise audiences and fans led to Doctors being unceremoniously fired (Colin) or left dissatisfied with the part (Davison) frustrated leads (Tom) and script editors (Saward), several miscast companions and storylines penned by relative newcomers not just to Doctor Who, but to science-fiction writing in general. Fans frustrations grew as the viewing figures diminished. A brief return to form for series 25 and 26 could not save it, and the programme fizzled out in 1989 for the majority of the 1990s.
The 1980s is my favourite era of Doctor Who in part due to it's tumultuous production woes and underrated stories, but it's arguably hard to shake the mainstream perception of this era.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Jan 22, 2022 14:36:02 GMT -5
Oh, can't believe I didn't think of this one:
Silent Hill games, the transition from Team Silent to.... whoever the hell made Homecoming. It's just this amazing shining example of people who completely do not understand something trying to create a faithful adaptation of it.
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Vampiro138
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Post by Vampiro138 on Jan 22, 2022 15:17:06 GMT -5
Izzy Stradlin leaves Guns n' Roses and Slash thinks he will be the writing partner with Axl now, which Axl goes "LOL, no" and then takes the next 18 years working with Paul Tobias, Brian May, Zakk Wylde, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson, Buckethead, Josh Freese, Dizzy Reed, Chris Pitman, Moby, Dave Navarro, Rich Robinson, and Joe Satriani to try and do what Izzy Stradlin could do...and all Axl could come up with all this talent was 14 songs, and now current GnR with Slash back once again is not using new material but material Axl has that has vocals from 1999.
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Post by Natural Born Farmer on Jan 22, 2022 18:09:01 GMT -5
The Authority was at its peak when it was Warren Ellis addressing how the existence of a super human team that called themselves “The Authority” might affect international politics and conflicts.
Mark Millar took over with a vague understanding of those ideas, and while I didn’t hate it I wish Wildstorm had demanded Ellis play those ideas out.
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Post by bibboid on Jan 22, 2022 19:20:52 GMT -5
Classic Doctor Who, Depending on your preference Hinchcliffe and Holmes to Graham Williams: Show goes from gothic hammer pastiche with an emphasis on violence to a much more family-friendly vibe and energy, with Tom Baker pretty much allowed to play the role his way unrestrained and able to do anything he wants. Douglas Adams comes in half-way and shows the programme what it would look like if it were written by a genius...but, like Moffat, he made for a so-so behind the scenes kitman as script editor. Graham Williams to John-Nathan Turner: JNT became the first real 'public face' of Doctor Who production, ahead of his time in many ways and making the role of producer just as much a showbiz thing as any actor in the part, but his eagerness to shock and surprise audiences and fans led to Doctors being unceremoniously fired (Colin) or left dissatisfied with the part (Davison) frustrated leads (Tom) and script editors (Saward), several miscast companions and storylines penned by relative newcomers not just to Doctor Who, but to science-fiction writing in general. Fans frustrations grew as the viewing figures diminished. A brief return to form for series 25 and 26 could not save it, and the programme fizzled out in 1989 for the majority of the 1990s. The 1980s is my favourite era of Doctor Who in part due to it's tumultuous production woes and underrated stories, but it's argued to shake the mainstream perception of this era. Absolutely agree with when JNT took over Who. Each season he was in charge was inferior to the previous one. The companions got more annoying. The costumes got more ridiculous. The sets got cheaper. I was surprised the BBC brought him back after they put the show on hiatus. Of course we can’t forget that American attempt to reboot the show. That piece of crap Paul McGann movie almost killed Who for good.
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Post by thegame415 on Jan 22, 2022 19:30:42 GMT -5
Rugrats swtiched writers when they came back for the 97 relaunch. A big downgrade from the early 90 years. 100 percent this. I don't even watch episodes from this era. Not to mention I can't stand Dil.
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dav
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Post by dav on Jan 22, 2022 20:59:07 GMT -5
Rugrats swtiched writers when they came back for the 97 relaunch. A big downgrade from the early 90 years. 100 percent this. I don't even watch episodes from this era. Not to mention I can't stand Dil. I never got my they made a character that undermined the concept of the show so much. Like, your entire idea is that babies misunderstand things and go off to have these adventures, why would you introduce a baby who literally can't do any of that?
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 22, 2022 21:20:30 GMT -5
Izzy Stradlin leaves Guns n' Roses and Slash thinks he will be the writing partner with Axl now, which Axl goes "LOL, no" and then takes the next 18 years working with Paul Tobias, Brian May, Zakk Wylde, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson, Buckethead, Josh Freese, Dizzy Reed, Chris Pitman, Moby, Dave Navarro, Rich Robinson, and Joe Satriani to try and do what Izzy Stradlin could do...and all Axl could come up with all this talent was 14 songs, and now current GnR with Slash back once again is not using new material but material Axl has that has vocals from 1999. I don’t really have an opinion on it, but I assume you’re part of the Guns is no good without Izzy faction of fans?
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Post by jimmyjackezekiel on Jan 22, 2022 21:37:24 GMT -5
Bernie Rhodes killed The Clash.
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06vwgti
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Post by 06vwgti on Jan 22, 2022 21:54:06 GMT -5
Rugrats swtiched writers when they came back for the 97 relaunch. A big downgrade from the early 90 years. As a kid I was excited it was coming back especially after the initial run had ended and all they played were reruns, but the movie was a letdown and I did not like Dil. I also feel the same about Doug, though not sure if it counts as I am not sure if there was a creative change, but I did not like the switch to Disney/ABC
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Post by BlackoutCreature on Jan 22, 2022 21:59:14 GMT -5
In the late 80's Keith Giffen and JM DeMatteis managed to re-imagine and reinvigorate the Justice League franchise, after the disastrous Detroit Era, into the fan favorite Justice League International. They left in the early 90's and none of the subsequent writers, which included names like Dan Jurgens, Dan Vado, Gerard Jones, Marc Waid and Christopher Priest, were ever even able to come close to recapturing that magic. Most of their stories weren't even bad, just middling and completely forgettable. It finally took cancelling all the books and re-launching the franchise as "JLA" under Grant Morrison with the Big 7 re-established to get things back on track.
I actually find it surprising that, for all the talk it gets for being a disaster, there are people out there who look back on the Detroit era with a nostalgic fondness, and characters like Vixen and Vibe getting redeemed in other media. I've yet to see anybody say "hey, let's bring back Ice Maiden and The Yazz" or ask for Justice League Task Force to reunite for another go around.
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fw91
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Post by fw91 on Jan 22, 2022 22:02:59 GMT -5
Rugrats swtiched writers when they came back for the 97 relaunch. A big downgrade from the early 90 years. As a kid I was excited it was coming back especially after the initial run had ended and all they played were reruns, but the movie was a letdown and I did not like Dil. All Grown Up Dil was awesome though, so I don't mind the character in hindsight.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Jan 22, 2022 22:21:09 GMT -5
On the other hand, JMS DID mean that Gwen's children story Imma just gonna say it, I don't actually mind Sins Past. It's not a particularly a ppropriate story for modern times, but It made Gwen a lot more interesting than she ever actually was. JMS probably should have left the book after he wrapped up the Ezekiel plot (when Romita Jr left), as the second half of his run is only remembered for the disasters like Sins Past, The Other, and One More Day (with the exception of "Back In Black") In his defense, he originally wanted Peter to be the father. At least they finally retconned it.
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Post by Duke Cameron on Jan 22, 2022 22:42:31 GMT -5
In the late 80's Keith Giffen and JM DeMatteis managed to re-imagine and reinvigorate the Justice League franchise, after the disastrous Detroit Era, into the fan favorite Justice League International. They left in the early 90's and none of the subsequent writers, which included names like Dan Jurgens, Dan Vado, Gerard Jones, Marc Waid and Christopher Priest, were ever even able to come close to recapturing that magic. Most of their stories weren't even bad, just middling and completely forgettable. It finally took cancelling all the books and re-launching the franchise as "JLA" under Grant Morrison with the Big 7 re-established to get things back on track. I actually find it surprising that, for all the talk it gets for being a disaster, there are people out there who look back on the Detroit era with a nostalgic fondness, and characters like Vixen and Vibe getting redeemed in other media. I've yet to see anybody say "hey, let's bring back Ice Maiden and The Yazz" or ask for Justice League Task Force to reunite for another go around. I absolutely love the Detroit era and it’s my favorite era of the team. I often find myself being a big fan of characters and eras that most people dislike or completely forget about. I wish Vibe, Steel and Gypsy got more play in the mainstream DC comics. They’ve literally resurrected everyone else, why not Vibe and Steel?
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Vampiro138
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Post by Vampiro138 on Jan 22, 2022 22:54:34 GMT -5
Izzy Stradlin leaves Guns n' Roses and Slash thinks he will be the writing partner with Axl now, which Axl goes "LOL, no" and then takes the next 18 years working with Paul Tobias, Brian May, Zakk Wylde, Robin Finck, Tommy Stinson, Buckethead, Josh Freese, Dizzy Reed, Chris Pitman, Moby, Dave Navarro, Rich Robinson, and Joe Satriani to try and do what Izzy Stradlin could do...and all Axl could come up with all this talent was 14 songs, and now current GnR with Slash back once again is not using new material but material Axl has that has vocals from 1999. I don’t really have an opinion on it, but I assume you’re part of the Guns is no good without Izzy faction of fans? yes and no, there are some good stuff on CD that I like but its not near the classic tracks that Izzy had a hand in. Out of the 20 discs that leaked from the locker last year, the only tracks with vocals were the songs that wound up on CD, and then so far the 2 "new" songs, and then 2 other songs that have not been released yet, literally out of the like 200 songs, 80% of them are all Buckethead instrumentals that were recorded that Axl never touched nor will be doing anything with. The GnR songs that Zakk wrote wound up becoming the first Black Label Society album which was actually recorded at Duff's studio. Like there is talent there but when big red isnt going to do anything with it, you get only 17 songs released since Axl Rose turned 30 years old....he is going to be 60 this year. Axl was his most creative with Izzy and since Izzy left, he has put together 17 whole songs in 30 years time even working with a ton of people who are super creative. Axl needs Izzy to create but wont admit it.
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Cranjis McBasketball
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Post by Cranjis McBasketball on Jan 23, 2022 0:53:40 GMT -5
I don’t really have an opinion on it, but I assume you’re part of the Guns is no good without Izzy faction of fans? yes and no, there are some good stuff on CD that I like but its not near the classic tracks that Izzy had a hand in. Out of the 20 discs that leaked from the locker last year, the only tracks with vocals were the songs that wound up on CD, and then so far the 2 "new" songs, and then 2 other songs that have not been released yet, literally out of the like 200 songs, 80% of them are all Buckethead instrumentals that were recorded that Axl never touched nor will be doing anything with. The GnR songs that Zakk wrote wound up becoming the first Black Label Society album which was actually recorded at Duff's studio. Like there is talent there but when big red isnt going to do anything with it, you get only 17 songs released since Axl Rose turned 30 years old....he is going to be 60 this year. Axl was his most creative with Izzy and since Izzy left, he has put together 17 whole songs in 30 years time even working with a ton of people who are super creative. Axl needs Izzy to create but wont admit it. I get it, but my favorite Guns songs are all the Axl songs. Estranged is my favorite song in the world. I forget who said it or exactly what they said, but it was Eddie Van Halen can play the guitar like a motherf***er, but he needs someone else to make his playing a song. Maybe that applies here.
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Post by thechase on Jan 23, 2022 3:10:17 GMT -5
Imma just gonna say it, I don't actually mind Sins Past. It's not a particularly a ppropriate story for modern times, but It made Gwen a lot more interesting than she ever actually was. JMS probably should have left the book after he wrapped up the Ezekiel plot (when Romita Jr left), as the second half of his run is only remembered for the disasters like Sins Past, The Other, and One More Day (with the exception of "Back In Black") In his defense, he originally wanted Peter to be the father. At least they finally retconned it. Uh huh, and with the benefit of hindsight that would have been fine because DC fully embraced the idea of having Superman deal with an aged-up kid. (well, ok, Peter/MJ fans would still be pissed because it meant Peter properly scored with Gwen first, but still...) And even in OMD's defence, JMS wanted to use that story to retcon half of Spider-Man's entire history and leave only the 1960s-1970s intact.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jan 23, 2022 8:49:53 GMT -5
The Authority was at its peak when it was Warren Ellis addressing how the existence of a super human team that called themselves “The Authority” might affect international politics and conflicts. Mark Millar took over with a vague understanding of those ideas, and while I didn’t hate it I wish Wildstorm had demanded Ellis play those ideas out. Millar was under the mistaken impression that they were the good guys and he could use them to kill people he personally disliked.
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