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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Apr 4, 2022 0:11:45 GMT -5
Also, an issue with it was Edge doing this dark broody entrance but then he just wrestles like always. And this was meant to be a blood feud but then they do headlocks. It wasn't their fault necessarily but the whole angle and feud didn't gel well with a normal wrestling match.
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Venti
Unicron
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Post by Venti on Apr 4, 2022 0:12:10 GMT -5
I don't understand lol I thought the match was absolutely incredible minus the finish??
Different strokes I guess I'm just surprised that the general consensus is the match was just okay
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Post by A Platypus Rave on Apr 4, 2022 1:06:15 GMT -5
Also, an issue with it was Edge doing this dark broody entrance but then he just wrestles like always. And this was meant to be a blood feud but then they do headlocks. It wasn't their fault necessarily but the whole angle and feud didn't gel well with a normal wrestling match. as I said earlier... how would this have been different if the build was. Edge Challenges AJ, Aj Accepts, and that's it. the answer is... maybe Priest doesn't randomly show up at the end? It was also a match setting up for a future storyline which seems like a really weird thing to do AT Wrestlemania. If they had this be like a Rumble match? that lead to the culmination of the new Edge gimmick vs. AJ... then I feel like the story would gel better... but... it like being the start of this gimmick/Stable Edge is doing seems out of place for a Mania match
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Post by polarbearpete on Apr 4, 2022 6:18:58 GMT -5
That match was an absolute banger. Surprising to see this thread. That was an easy 4 stars
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Post by Instant Classic on Apr 4, 2022 6:40:09 GMT -5
"The match was good and told a good story" I was watching a different match ya'll, shit just felt like moves into other moves, with long breaks in between. If Edge didn't do the spooky dark bullshit, it literally wouldn't have made a single difference into how the match played out with Priest showing up aside, like at f***ing all Wasn't really impressed, it wasn't a bad match, but it was just... a match. You like what you like but I can’t help but feel if it was the same match with spooky Malakai vs someone moves in to other moves it would be praised.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 4, 2022 6:40:27 GMT -5
Also, an issue with it was Edge doing this dark broody entrance but then he just wrestles like always. And this was meant to be a blood feud but then they do headlocks. It wasn't their fault necessarily but the whole angle and feud didn't gel well with a normal wrestling match. That does seem to be a general issue that pops up with a lot of "let's just book two good wrestlers in a good WM match" situations, where they feel the need to create a face/heel dynamic and then not really explore it during the actual match. If Edge was going to turn and embrace his whole old school Brood-ness, then you'd want to see him work a match with AJ that shows that change off; otherwise, just have them do a babyface vs. babyface match where they each play the hits, then have Edge turn...though then again, that's how they handled the AJ/Nakamura situation and that didn't pan out so great, so maybe I'm wrong.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
FANatic
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Apr 4, 2022 7:22:03 GMT -5
"The match was good and told a good story" I was watching a different match ya'll, shit just felt like moves into other moves, with long breaks in between. If Edge didn't do the spooky dark bullshit, it literally wouldn't have made a single difference into how the match played out with Priest showing up aside, like at f***ing all Wasn't really impressed, it wasn't a bad match, but it was just... a match. You like what you like but I can’t help but feel if it was the same match with spooky Malakai vs someone moves in to other moves it would be praised. I just wanted Edge's gimmick to mean more, in Malakai matches, his gimmick plays into the match, he's won with black mist, his own Black Mist has been used against him, etc. I felt like Edge came out with this crazy new gimmick, built it up for weeks, and then just... wrestled like Edge, and had a pretty standard if hard hitting match with AJ. He changed up his entire presence just to have a match that would have been the exact same without it, that's my main complaint, and it wasn't just me saying it. I would have had Edge be way more sadistic, maybe whip out a new move or two. When the entire feud is build around this new dark and foreboding Edge persona, and I walk away from the match thinking the persona didn't play into the match whatsoever outside of Damien appearing for the new faction essentially after the match concluded, I think that's an issue. The match wasn't bad, I just felt like they could have did a bit more with this then they did, that's all. I assume they're going to now, it just felt weird to just see a normal match after all that. Reminded me of Rollins vs Ambrose, but better in-ring wise than that, but the aspect bugs me.
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Post by Instant Classic on Apr 4, 2022 7:33:54 GMT -5
You like what you like but I can’t help but feel if it was the same match with spooky Malakai vs someone moves in to other moves it would be praised. I just wanted Edge's gimmick to mean more, in Malakai matches, his gimmick plays into the match, he's won with black mist, his own Black Mist has been used against him, etc. I felt like Edge came out with this crazy new gimmick, built it up for weeks, and then just... wrestled like Edge, and had a pretty standard if hard hitting match with AJ. He changed up his entire presence just to have a match that would have been the exact same without it, that's my main complaint, and it wasn't just me saying it. I would have had Edge be way more sadistic, maybe whip out a new move or two. When the entire feud is build around this new dark and foreboding Edge persona, and I walk away from the match thinking the persona didn't play into the match whatsoever outside of Damien appearing for the new faction essentially after the match concluded, I think that's an issue. The match wasn't bad, I just felt like they could have did a bit more with this then they did, that's all. I assume they're going to now, it just felt weird to just see a normal match after all that. Reminded me of Rollins vs Ambrose, but better in-ring wise than that, but the aspect bugs me. I agree with him using a new move. That choke hold he was using when he first came back would have been nice.
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Post by Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story on Apr 4, 2022 7:42:39 GMT -5
He doesn’t? The Nakamura match was weak.
Jericho was good. Shane was great. Orton was fun and picked up toward the end. Taker was one of the greatest gimmick matches of all time. Last year served its purpose but wasn’t meant to be good.
Last night was excellent. They knocked each other loopy at a few points, but it was v good.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on Apr 4, 2022 7:49:40 GMT -5
Arguably his only truly great match was with HBK in 2003. Kind of a tangent but honestly I'd argue Jericho / Michaels isn't at all a great. Always seen it as one of the weaker matches at Mania 19 because the entire thing is Jericho basically just exhausting his entire moveset on Michaels, who sells none of it, and then he starts using HBK's own moves and those aren't sold either. At no point in it does Jericho come off remotely like he has a chance in hell of winning. Though that's really kind of always a problem I've had with Jericho as a performer. The protection of the Judas Effect has helped a lot with this but his moves tend to otherwise be portrayed as though he has to do them over and over and over again to win with them and the end result is he never comes off like a top level threat because you can't buy his moves putting down anyone who matters.
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Post by James Fabiano on Apr 4, 2022 8:12:37 GMT -5
Another should have been classic was just okay. His best mania match was against Shane. Is it nerves? Bad Chemistry? Or just an unfortunate coincidence? Nah his best one, oddly enough, wasn't a traditional wrestling match at all.
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krozor
Don Corleone
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Post by krozor on Apr 4, 2022 8:30:49 GMT -5
This year's match needed to be a Battle for the Soul of Damian Priest. Have Priest's entrance thing up the whole time, and whenever Edge is on top or does something evil, the Damian side fills up more, while whenever AJ is on top or does something good, the Priest side fills up more. Four stars at minimum with that set up.
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Venti
Unicron
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Post by Venti on Apr 4, 2022 9:51:54 GMT -5
Arguably his only truly great match was with HBK in 2003. Kind of a tangent but honestly I'd argue Jericho / Michaels isn't at all a great. Always seen it as one of the weaker matches at Mania 19 because the entire thing is Jericho basically just exhausting his entire moveset on Michaels, who sells none of it, and then he starts using HBK's own moves and those aren't sold either. At no point in it does Jericho come off remotely like he has a chance in hell of winning. Though that's really kind of always a problem I've had with Jericho as a performer. The protection of the Judas Effect has helped a lot with this but his moves tend to otherwise be portrayed as though he has to do them over and over and over again to win with them and the end result is he never comes off like a top level threat because you can't buy his moves putting down anyone who matters. Honestly I thought Jericho and Michaels' 2008 series of matches completely blows away the Wrestlemania 19 match
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Post by oxbaker on Apr 4, 2022 9:58:41 GMT -5
AJ is better at carrying an average or below-average guy (i.e. Shane) to a really good match than he is at putting on a ‘5-star OMG classic’ with another great worker.
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Post by celtics543 on Apr 4, 2022 10:11:20 GMT -5
I think it's just a case of how many great matches are a 48 year old and a 44 year old going to have against each other? It's not like either is even close to their prime.
The story leading in was average and with a weak story and two past their prime performers the match was what it was. It was still great but AJ has been doing next to nothing with Omos all year and Edge is great but he's 48 at this point.
Other than Austin and McMahon they were the two oldest guys to wrestle a match this weekend.
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Nosnorb
El Dandy
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Post by Nosnorb on Apr 4, 2022 10:18:07 GMT -5
I think it's just a case of how many great matches are a 48 year old and a 44 year old going to have against each other? It's not like either is even close to their prime. The story leading in was average and with a weak story and two past their prime performers the match was what it was. It was still great but AJ has been doing next to nothing with Omos all year and Edge is great but he's 48 at this point. Other than Austin and McMahon they were the two oldest guys to wrestle a match this weekend. AJ vs Edge might be the last ever Wrestlemania match between two guys who started in the Attitude Era. I was expecting these two to put on a 4.5 Star match at least, but after reading all that, I think I was being unrealistic.
Both guys are still good, and Edge is a master at character work, but as it was said last night, the flow of time is always cruel.
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Post by The Legend of Groose on Apr 4, 2022 10:25:46 GMT -5
Huh!? The boneyard match and Styles VS Shane were great. Hell I'd argue Styles VS Shane was the best match on the WrestleMania 33 card. The only match I'd say AJ had that was a total stinker was Nakamura and that might be more because on paper it should be insane and we got... THAT.
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on Apr 4, 2022 10:39:30 GMT -5
I thought the Edge match was great. It didn't have the spectacle and tricks that many other matches had (and wasn't on the level of some of AJ's big NJPW matches) but for a straight wrestling match between two guys in their 40s, one of whom is still feeling out his new heel persona, I thought it was about as good as it was going to get.
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Post by HMARK Center on Apr 4, 2022 10:41:23 GMT -5
I think it's just a case of how many great matches are a 48 year old and a 44 year old going to have against each other? It's not like either is even close to their prime. The story leading in was average and with a weak story and two past their prime performers the match was what it was. It was still great but AJ has been doing next to nothing with Omos all year and Edge is great but he's 48 at this point. Other than Austin and McMahon they were the two oldest guys to wrestle a match this weekend. With the right story and psychological approach? So long as the two guys can go at a good clip, there's no reason they couldn't put on a masterpiece. If both guys were at a point where their cardio was compromised or they couldn't really move steadily then I'd get age being an issue, but as far as I know both guys should be able to deliver something great without worrying about big spots or whatever.
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Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Apr 4, 2022 10:44:20 GMT -5
I think the idea of what a “great Wrestlemania match” is has been poisoned by all of the matches loaded with finisher kickouts and spots off the top rope that just sorta happen on weekly tv nowadays
It makes it hard to see a straight forward pretty good match as anything but just ok.
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