Why does AJ Styles Seemingly Underwhelm at Mania every year?

[MrElijah]

Apr 4, 2022 10:39:30 GMT -5 Kalmia said:

I thought the Edge match was great. It didn't have the spectacle and tricks that many other matches had (and wasn't on the level of some of AJ's big NJPW matches) but for a straight wrestling match between two guys in their 40s, one of whom is still feeling out his new heel persona, I thought it was about as good as it was going to get.

Plus these two have done some of the damnest bumps in the last 20 Years. I ain’t surprised that they slowed down a noych.

[Deleted]

Apr 4, 2022 10:18:07 GMT -5 Nosnorb said:

Apr 4, 2022 10:11:20 GMT -5 celtics543 said:

I think it's just a case of how many great matches are a 48 year old and a 44 year old going to have against each other? It's not like either is even close to their prime.

The story leading in was average and with a weak story and two past their prime performers the match was what it was. It was still great but AJ has been doing next to nothing with Omos all year and Edge is great but he's 48 at this point.

Other than Austin and McMahon they were the two oldest guys to wrestle a match this weekend.

AJ vs Edge might be the last ever Wrestlemania match between two guys who started in the Attitude Era. I was expecting these two to put on a 4.5 Star match at least, but after reading all that, I think I was being unrealistic.

Both guys are still good, and Edge is a master at character work, but as it was said last night, the flow of time is always cruel.

I think what really puts it into perspective for me is that, if a similar match took place in, say, 1996 (I chose this year because it's when I personally first became a wrestling fan as an 8 year old), it would have been something like 44 year old Junkyard Dog versus 48 year old Big John Studd. Like, could you imagine how a match like that would have been viewed if it had been on the WrestleMania 12 card? Or how bad it would have been with the physical condition of those guys at the time? That was also a time when WWF was actively running vignettes about how 44 year old Randy Savage and 43 year old Hulk Hogan were fossils that needed to be put out to pasture.

Pro wrestling is a lot different now then it was. I am just excited that we still get to see the stars of my teenage years having matches at a high level, and guys having decades long careers into their 40s and 50s, and still producing good wrestling matches. Guys like AJ and Edge have kept themselves in such great shape that sometimes, I think, it's difficult not to expect them to go out there and still have the same matches they did in their 20s.

That's kind of how I feel about this match. If it were 2004 Edge vs. 2004 Styles, I would have considered that match a bit of a dud. But for 2022 Edge vs. 2022 Styles, it was actually kind of awesome, and bumped up a notch by the fact that it was even happening at all for me.

[A Platypus Rave]

Apr 4, 2022 7:22:03 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Apr 4, 2022 6:40:09 GMT -5 Instant Classic said:

You like what you like but I can’t help but feel if it was the same match with spooky Malakai vs someone moves in to other moves it would be praised.

I just wanted Edge's gimmick to mean more, in Malakai matches, his gimmick plays into the match, he's won with black mist, his own Black Mist has been used against him, etc. I felt like Edge came out with this crazy new gimmick, built it up for weeks, and then just... wrestled like Edge, and had a pretty standard if hard hitting match with AJ.

He changed up his entire presence just to have a match that would have been the exact same without it, that's my main complaint, and it wasn't just me saying it. I would have had Edge be way more sadistic, maybe whip out a new move or two. When the entire feud is build around this new dark and foreboding Edge persona, and I walk away from the match thinking the persona didn't play into the match whatsoever outside of Damien appearing for the new faction essentially after the match concluded, I think that's an issue.

The match wasn't bad, I just felt like they could have did a bit more with this then they did, that's all. I assume they're going to now, it just felt weird to just see a normal match after all that. Reminded me of Rollins vs Ambrose, but better in-ring wise than that, but the aspect bugs me.

I think it's a problem with a lot of the WWE in general... where people's gimmicks kinda stop as soon as they get in the ring. (Unless your gimmick is like a brawler)

One of the few I can think of that commits to their gimmick even in the ring is like Alexa Bliss with her weird like spider walk on the rope.

[eJm]

Apr 4, 2022 11:29:42 GMT -5 A Platypus Rave said:

Apr 4, 2022 7:22:03 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

I just wanted Edge's gimmick to mean more, in Malakai matches, his gimmick plays into the match, he's won with black mist, his own Black Mist has been used against him, etc. I felt like Edge came out with this crazy new gimmick, built it up for weeks, and then just... wrestled like Edge, and had a pretty standard if hard hitting match with AJ.

He changed up his entire presence just to have a match that would have been the exact same without it, that's my main complaint, and it wasn't just me saying it. I would have had Edge be way more sadistic, maybe whip out a new move or two. When the entire feud is build around this new dark and foreboding Edge persona, and I walk away from the match thinking the persona didn't play into the match whatsoever outside of Damien appearing for the new faction essentially after the match concluded, I think that's an issue.

The match wasn't bad, I just felt like they could have did a bit more with this then they did, that's all. I assume they're going to now, it just felt weird to just see a normal match after all that. Reminded me of Rollins vs Ambrose, but better in-ring wise than that, but the aspect bugs me.

I think it's a problem with a lot of the WWE in general... where people's gimmicks kinda stop as soon as they get in the ring. (Unless your gimmick is like a brawler)

One of the few I can think of that commits to their gimmick even in the ring is like Alexa Bliss with her weird like spider walk on the rope.

Which just feels weird considering the ethos of the company about characters and such.

As an example, I've gone on about Cora Jade being a skateboarder without actually showing she can be on in the ring, like it feels like she should be doing more flips and such because, you know, skateboarder.

[Kay Faban]

A problem all the big mania matches suffer from is never believing the finish is the real one because you know you’re getting false finishes.

[mcstoklasa]

Apr 3, 2022 23:12:40 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

He’s the new Jericho.

Jericho usually had fine matches at Wrestlemania but they never quite lived up to expectations people had going in (Angle/Benoit 2000, HHH 2002, Edge 2010, Punk 2012, Styles 2016, Owens 2017). Arguably his only truly great match was with HBK in 2003.

So true. I didn't really enjoy any of his Mania bouts

[sportatorium]

Apr 4, 2022 7:42:39 GMT -5 Finish Uncle Muffin’s Story said:

He doesn’t? The Nakamura match was weak.

Jericho was good.
Shane was great.
Orton was fun and picked up toward the end.
Taker was one of the greatest gimmick matches of all time.
Last year served its purpose but wasn’t meant to be good.

Last night was excellent. They knocked each other loopy at a few points, but it was v good.

I think this assessment is spot on. Nakamura was face vs face and the build was pretty mild as well. I think there was a recapture the NJPW magic hope and they were given half the time of a typical Japanese match and really no compelling story.

Last night was great work in the ring. I don't think it was over with the audience as much as they hoped it would be. Nobody wants to boo Edge, they can make him say despicable things and deliver conchairtos etc. People love the guy and it isn't going to change. Further, AJ is a great babyface, but he's switched alignment enough that I don't think he's beloved as a babyface character as much as he's respected and beloved as a wrestler.

My take on the Styles-Edge and Rollins-Cody was pretty similar. Great workers all around putting on matches that felt more like something on an AEW or NJPW card than WWE/Wrestlemania. They both let the wrestling tell the story, and when compared with Austin/McAfee/Jackass guys. It just isn't going to stand out unless you are looking for in ring first storytelling.

My .02