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Post by mistery on Apr 28, 2022 14:33:08 GMT -5
Yeah. Let's be clear here. There is nothing wrong with a woman having a sexy girl gimmick and dressing in skimpy clothing if its something they clearly want to do. The problem is when WWE forces it onto the other women as well, or decides to push that woman based on sex appeal alone. Which lets be honest. That's the only reason they are pushing Toxic Attraction right now. Because there are infinitely more skilled women both on the mic and in the ring that are way better than Toxic Attraction. WWE is completely entrenched in the mindset that "if we push all these sexy women, younger viewers will flock to our product" when in reality that isn't even remotely true. Their ratings are absolutely down the drain. If they keep falling, NBCU/USA is going to probably start to seriously consider cancelling the show. And WWE will either double down with it on Peacock, or they'll be forced to rebrand to NXT 3.0. Black and Gold was doing better ratings than this garbage, and guess what? They didn't have women like Toxic Attraction, Nikita, Tiffany, etc as the central focus of the show. They had women like Io, Dakota, Candice, Ember, etc as the central focus of the show and it worked out so much better. Eh, the ratings are fine and have stabilized. They're basically at Rampage lite levels now. I doubt they get canceled anytime soon. They haven't really stabilized, considering they are experiencing a very steep drop even compared to last year. They were stable during the Black and Gold era but the show was still rebranded. This new "vision" is doing much worse than the Black and Gold era. Also Rampage still does way better in the demo than NXT 2.0 does. I think the median age of an NXT 2.0 viewer is now like 63 years old. For perspective on how bad of a drop its been: Last year, the last time NXT had an overrun was Stand and Deliver Night 1, which was headlined by Io/Raquel for the title. The last quarter + overrun gave them a demo of 0.27 and 1.06m viewers. The last quarter and overrun from the latest episode of NXT 2.0 was ~510k and .09 from the last quarter. Which was headlined by Mandy/Roxanne and Breakker/Gacy.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 28, 2022 14:34:34 GMT -5
John Laurinaitis & Bruce Prichard need to just go somewhere tho man. I am seriously worried about the future of the main roster women's division with those two in charge. It's fine right now since the 4HW, Asuka, & Bianca are there but once those women retire? Oof.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 28, 2022 14:40:43 GMT -5
Eh, the ratings are fine and have stabilized. They're basically at Rampage lite levels now. I doubt they get canceled anytime soon. They haven't really stabilized, considering they are experiencing a very steep drop even compared to last year. They were stable during the Black and Gold era but the show was still rebranded. This new "vision" is doing much worse than the Black and Gold era. Also Rampage still does way better in the demo than NXT 2.0 does. I think the median age of an NXT 2.0 viewer is now like 63 years old. For perspective on how bad of a drop its been: Last year, the last time NXT had an overrun was Stand and Deliver Night 1, which was headlined by Io/Raquel for the title. The last quarter + overrun gave them a demo of 0.27 and 1.06m viewers. The last quarter and overrun from the latest episode of NXT 2.0 was ~510k and .09 from the last quarter. Which was headlined by Mandy/Roxanne and Breakker/Gacy. 2021 18-49 Key Demographics Rating Average: 0.16 per episode is fine. It's doing worse than Black & Gold because B&G had a bunch of established indie stars. It's ratings aren't great but it isn't getting canceled anytime soon at that level. It's like the highest-rated show on the USA network outside Raw & Chucky reruns lol. They're probably also not paying WWE a lot of money to make it since the cost to produce it is super low. WWE doesn't need NXT to be this hugely successful show if they want a developmental show to fit its new strategy.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 14:42:01 GMT -5
John Laurinaitis & Bruce Prichard need to just go somewhere tho man. I am seriously worried about the future of the main roster women's division with those two in charge. It's fine right now since the 4HW, Asuka, & Bianca are there but once those women retire? Oof. We are alot closer to that then alot realize. Sasha is already eyeing Hollywood. Becky is dabbling in it and she is a mom now and just got off of a run that will very likely be her legacy. Charlotte has literally done everything and probably wants to start poppin babies out with Andrade sooner than later. Asuka is in her 40s so she is closer to the end of her career atleast full time. Alexa is very likely out the door in 2yrs when her contract presumeably runs out.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 28, 2022 14:42:29 GMT -5
The ratings are stable. But they are not drawing in that younger demo. Their core audience skews pretty old, which is telling.
You have a bunch of men in their 50’s and 60’s, answering to an oddball 76 year old billionaire who’s pop culture knowledge is at least 30 years behind the times, trying to figure out “the young people” want.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 28, 2022 14:45:25 GMT -5
What I think they should have done, is really go all out with it for 2.0. Give them a TV-14 label and try and get the youngins that way.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 14:46:31 GMT -5
They haven't really stabilized, considering they are experiencing a very steep drop even compared to last year. They were stable during the Black and Gold era but the show was still rebranded. This new "vision" is doing much worse than the Black and Gold era. Also Rampage still does way better in the demo than NXT 2.0 does. I think the median age of an NXT 2.0 viewer is now like 63 years old. For perspective on how bad of a drop its been: Last year, the last time NXT had an overrun was Stand and Deliver Night 1, which was headlined by Io/Raquel for the title. The last quarter + overrun gave them a demo of 0.27 and 1.06m viewers. The last quarter and overrun from the latest episode of NXT 2.0 was ~510k and .09 from the last quarter. Which was headlined by Mandy/Roxanne and Breakker/Gacy. 2021 18-49 Key Demographics Rating Average: 0.16 per episode is fine. It's doing worse than Black & Gold because B&G had a bunch of established indie stars. It's ratings aren't great but it isn't getting canceled anytime soon at that level. It's like the highest-rated show on the USA network outside Raw & Chucky reruns lol. They're probably also not paying WWE a lot of money to make it since the cost to produce it is super low. WWE doesn't need NXT to be this hugely successful show if they want a developmental show to fit its new strategy. They may not cancel it but paying 30-40mil for a show that is skewing alot closer to 70 and doing worse than a show from your rival in a friday night death slot is not a show I would think they are all that excited to renew atleast not for anywhere that price. Maybe they bring it back for like 5-10mil but I would be willing to get once this deal is up it goes back to peacock.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 28, 2022 14:48:22 GMT -5
I'm not a kid anymore but the whole "hey make em wear less and boom there's ratings" thing really wore out it's welcome in today's internet age where kids these days see more revealing things online. Back in the Attitude/Ruthless Aggression Eras things weren't quite as available as it is these days. You've got social media, OnlyFans, you've got more forums, people in real life even I mean even in games these days, it's just not like how it used to be. We don't only see scantily clad women in magazines and in wrestling anymore. It's 2022.
So for an old guy to decide that's the direction they need to go with, that just says that they're out of touch which makes sense.
That's an "Old Guy Call."
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Post by mistery on Apr 28, 2022 14:50:59 GMT -5
What I think they should have done, is really go all out with it for 2.0. Give them a TV-14 label and try and get the youngins that way. Won't work. WWE has that partnership with Mattel and stuff still. Also doubling down on the sex stuff isn't going to work out either. Nor will bringing blood into the matches. The problem is pretty much entirely with management/creative right now who are stuck in the late 90s early 00s still.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 28, 2022 14:51:55 GMT -5
2021 18-49 Key Demographics Rating Average: 0.16 per episode is fine. It's doing worse than Black & Gold because B&G had a bunch of established indie stars. It's ratings aren't great but it isn't getting canceled anytime soon at that level. It's like the highest-rated show on the USA network outside Raw & Chucky reruns lol. They're probably also not paying WWE a lot of money to make it since the cost to produce it is super low. WWE doesn't need NXT to be this hugely successful show if they want a developmental show to fit its new strategy. They may not cancel it but paying 30-40mil for a show that is skewing alot closer to 70 and doing worse than a show from your rival in a friday night death slot is not a show I would think they are all that excited to renew atleast not for anywhere that price. Maybe they bring it back for like 5-10mil but I would be willing to get once this deal is up it goes back to peacock. I doubt it's going back to peacock. LinkIt seems like they just wanted the ratings to stabilize. Even if WWE gets 10-15 million or whatever from NXT, that's fine. They're not depending on that money to run the lights. The NXT contract was always gravy. So if they feel like they want to change course for their developmental strategy, losing ratings for the developmental brand isn't the worst thing in the world for them.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 28, 2022 14:55:16 GMT -5
I'm not a kid anymore but the whole "hey make em wear less and boom there's ratings" thing really wore out it's welcome in today's internet age where kids these days see more revealing things online. Back in the Attitude/Ruthless Aggression Eras things weren't quite as available as it is these days. You've got social media, OnlyFans, you've got more forums, people in real life even I mean even in games these days, it's just not like how it used to be. We don't only see scantily clad women in magazines and in wrestling anymore. It's 2022. So for an old guy to decide that's the direction they need to go with, that just says that they're out of touch which makes sense. That's an "Old Guy Call." Heck Mandy and Gigi (and some of the other women as well) show off more skin on their Instagram pages than they do on TV. And you don’t have to sit through a 2 hours show just to maybe see it either.
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Post by mistery on Apr 28, 2022 14:56:42 GMT -5
They may not cancel it but paying 30-40mil for a show that is skewing alot closer to 70 and doing worse than a show from your rival in a friday night death slot is not a show I would think they are all that excited to renew atleast not for anywhere that price. Maybe they bring it back for like 5-10mil but I would be willing to get once this deal is up it goes back to peacock. I doubt it's going back to peacock. LinkIt seems like they just wanted the ratings to stabilize. Even if WWE gets 10-15 million or whatever from NXT, that's fine. They're not depending on that money to run the lights. The NXT contract was always gravy. So if they feel like they want to change course for their developmental strategy, losing ratings for the developmental brand isn't the worst thing in the world for them. I think the key thing here is that USA Network is happy as long as they are within the 600k+ range, but their viewership has fallen well below that over the past couple of weeks. Maybe its just NBA playoffs, but at the same time, if the only time they can break 600k+ going forward are through special events, it might be time for yet another rebrand. Not to mention the demo has fallen off pretty hard as well. Also keep in mind that Black and Gold was regularly in the mid to high 600k range, with specials breaking 750k regularly, with some even coming close to, or breaking 1m viewers at certain points.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 28, 2022 14:59:32 GMT -5
Anyway to get back to the topic. I didn't like that Ember questioned the passion of the newbies. If you don't want to be a trainer, that's fine. That's your perspective. But you can't question somebody trying to learn the craft just because they're new. That's gatekeeping.
Bianca Belair wasn't a fan of wrestling before she started training and now has become one of the biggest stars in the company. Goldberg & Kevin Nash wasn't the most passionate people about wrestling but they were big stars. Passion itself doesn't determine if somebody can be a money-making star. Do you have a work ethic? Do you have the ability? Can you make people believe? Eventually, you gotta have some passion or you'll give up but you don't have EAT SLEEP BREATH THIS BIZNISS to make it.
So yeah, I didn't like her throwing newbies under the bus like that.
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jhbboy198917
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Post by jhbboy198917 on Apr 28, 2022 15:06:22 GMT -5
The only problem I have is now Women that don't have previous wrestling experience in NXT are going to get more underserved disrespect from certain people
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Post by mistery on Apr 28, 2022 15:07:27 GMT -5
Anyway to get back to the topic. I didn't like that Ember questioned the passion of the newbies. If you don't want to be a trainer, that's fine. That's your perspective. But you can't question somebody trying to learn the craft just because they're new. That's gatekeeping. Bianca Belair wasn't a fan of wrestling before she started training and now has become one of the biggest stars in the company. Goldberg & Kevin Nash wasn't the most passionate people about wrestling but they were big stars. Passion itself doesn't determine if somebody can be a money-making star. Do you have a work ethic? Do you have the ability? Can you make people believe? Eventually, you gotta have some passion or you'll give up but you don't have EAT SLEEP BREATH THIS BIZNISS to make it. So yeah, I didn't like her throwing newbies under the bus like that. I mean when you have women like the Cavinder Twins who signed an NIL contract with WWE but then openly said they aren't actually interested in wrestling or doing anything that physical (but WWE promoted them for a bit anyways), it doesn't really paint WWE or the NIL talents a good light. It doesn't help when you have women like Lash Legend who are absolutely terrible. I would go as far to say that the Lash/Nikita match from the latest NXT was a good example of why they need to reopen the Florida loop, or keep those women off of TV until they are actually ready, because holy hell that match was an embarrassment and should have never made TV. The fact that WWE is starting to throw all of the green women together in matches and keeping all of the veterans off of TV just vindicates Ember/Athena even further in that WWE is trying to shove all of the indy vets into coaching roles, even if its something they don't want to do.
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J is Justice
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Post by J is Justice on Apr 28, 2022 15:09:46 GMT -5
That sucks to hear. I'm definitely not a fan of the direction they seem to be heading (not that I watch NXT much, anyway). Imagine wanting to push Mandy over the likes of Io and Ember, though.
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Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 28, 2022 15:12:11 GMT -5
Anyway to get back to the topic. I didn't like that Ember questioned the passion of the newbies. If you don't want to be a trainer, that's fine. That's your perspective. But you can't question somebody trying to learn the craft just because they're new. That's gatekeeping. Bianca Belair wasn't a fan of wrestling before she started training and now has become one of the biggest stars in the company. Goldberg & Kevin Nash wasn't the most passionate people about wrestling but they were big stars. Passion itself doesn't determine if somebody can be a money-making star. Do you have a work ethic? Do you have the ability? Can you make people believe? Eventually, you gotta have some passion or you'll give up but you don't have EAT SLEEP BREATH THIS BIZNISS to make it. So yeah, I didn't like her throwing newbies under the bus like that. I mean when you have women like the Cavinder Twins who signed an NIL contract with WWE but then openly said they aren't actually interested in wrestling or doing anything that physical, it doesn't really paint WWE or the NIL talents a good light. Ok? And? The twins are not at the performance center. They aren't the ones Ember is talking about who's putting work either. The ones at the performance center are taking the bumps, getting criticized trying to learn how to cut a promo, etc. The NIL deals weren't even a thing when she got released. She's talking shit about the ones who are at the performance center trying to learn. That ain't cool.
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Post by carp (SPC, Itoh Respect Army) on Apr 28, 2022 15:13:51 GMT -5
Speaking as someone who is not part of these discussions, it seems... odd to focus on this, rather than the content of what she's saying. Is your point that what she's saying is wrong or biased or misleading? Also, she doesn't imply anything is Rose's fault, that I could see? It’s not necessarily her blaming Mandy Rose, because yeah, she isn’t. CM Punk never really had anything bad to say about Roman Reigns either (if I remember correctly), it was just his comments about “making him look strong” kind of became the flashpoint that put what people were kinda thinking already anyway into crystal-clear focus. I think that might happen here with Moon basically saying there were meetings about “dressing sexier”, and guess who’s benefitting the most from that, at the expense of *insert name here*? I do feel a bit bad for Rose, because this is the first actual push she’s gotten as a wrestler. So she's not blaming Rose, but her comments are a "flashpoint" for a potential future you can imagine where people MIGHT blame Rose, so that was a bad thing for her to do? That... first of all sounds like a bridge we should cross if we come to it. And second, why should Moon even be blamed for other people's inability to understand the not-very-complicated thing she's saying which doesn't blame Rose? This all just feels very weirdly dismissive, talking about it like a bingo card instead of a person describing a shitty situation. If someone's so desperate to blame Rose personally for dressing sexy, that probably emerges from a similar kind of sexism that leads people to only want women wrestlers who dress sexy. These things aren't in competition.
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Post by ThankGodForSidJustice on Apr 28, 2022 15:20:39 GMT -5
I mean I totally get not wanting to "dress sexy" if that's not you or it's something you are not comfortable with it. And nobody should be forced into it either. However it's not like it's something new by any means. Over the years I would say much more women then not wear the booty butt cheek shorts or some other revealing type outfit that shows a lot. That includes Ember herself. Mandy's gear is skimpy but I don't think it's really any more revealing then what a lot of the other girls wear or have worn for years.
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asuka007
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Post by asuka007 on Apr 28, 2022 15:24:44 GMT -5
Toxic Attraction’s entire characters and presentation boils down to “they’re catty bullies who are sexy.”
WWE beat you over the head with it in every way possible. And they’ve been booked to dominate the title scene for half a year now with no real growth or progression.
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