|
Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Apr 29, 2022 4:08:51 GMT -5
I just knew the moment I saw this on Twitter that it was gonna end up on here, posted by one of the people who are always on it about the NXT women’s division. Like absolute clockwork. The only thing missing for my bingo card is Ember Moon going “Oh, by the way, they hate Io Shirai because of her crazy passport”. Seriously though, I get real “make Reigns look strong” vibes from the way she just throws Mandy Rose under the bus like that. You can make your point and even get most people to agree with it without essentially going “It’s HER fault!”. Even out of context that's not what she's saying at all. Many Rose has a particular aesthetic that works for her. What she's saying is that WWE were, or are, trying to make other women fit that mould even if it makes them uncomfortable. She even says that her whole persona is designed to appeal to kids and makes it clear she was being made to feel uncomfortable. That you're being so outright dismissive of what Ember's saying and of it being raised at all is a bit messed. I’m wasn’t being dismissive. I was literally just making a f***ing joke about the posting habits of a couple of our posters at first, and then in the next bit I was just saying how there could be similarities to the Punk/Reigns thing from way back. I wasn’t being dismissive of Ember Moon’s concerns, it’s skeevy as f*** that the office wants them to be like that, but this fanbase has a reputation of taking something said in an interview like this, as unintentional as it was on Moon’s part, and using it as a weapon with which to attack someone being pushed that they don’t like, as though it’s their fault for it. Look, I’ve had a rough couple of days, which is why I’ve only just seen this now, and I’m not in the mood for having words put into my mouth implying that I’m some kind of sexist. You guys know my posting habits and my posting style, I’ve only been here for 16 years after all. I’m sorry if my post gave off that impression, but that was never my intent.
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Apr 29, 2022 4:29:09 GMT -5
This turning into a f***ing stan war where everyone just gets petty because a whisper of a negative word detached from a judgment of a person was said, is a f***ing travesty. Too many people are still Weird About Women's Wrestling and it's turned the whole thing into a shitshow it doesn't have to be. Stans are the damn worst, man. This shouldn't be a referendum on if women can be sexy, and a bunch of people who didn't listen taking it out of context to paint her as shitting on Mandy have successfully let the actual meat of all the topic, which goes so much deeper than the sex stuff, slip away without a second thought. I know Ember didn't say it to put her down as she gave her praise after namedropping her but I feel bad for Mandy in that it seems like she's a nice woman who hasn't done anything wrong but now is going to get a lot of backlash because she's the poster girl for this vision they have of making sex appeal the main priority. Agreed. Mandy definitely should not be the fall guy for decisions being made way above her by sexist men.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 4:32:16 GMT -5
Even out of context that's not what she's saying at all. Many Rose has a particular aesthetic that works for her. What she's saying is that WWE were, or are, trying to make other women fit that mould even if it makes them uncomfortable. She even says that her whole persona is designed to appeal to kids and makes it clear she was being made to feel uncomfortable. That you're being so outright dismissive of what Ember's saying and of it being raised at all is a bit messed. I’m wasn’t being dismissive. I was literally just making a f***ing joke about the posting habits of a couple of our posters at first, and then in the next bit I was just saying how there could be similarities to the Punk/Reigns thing from way back. I wasn’t being dismissive of Ember Moon’s concerns, it’s skeevy as f*** that the office wants them to be like that, but this fanbase has a reputation of taking something said in an interview like this, as unintentional as it was on Moon’s part, and using it as a weapon with which to attack someone being pushed that they don’t like, as though it’s their fault for it. Look, I’ve had a rough couple of days, which is why I’ve only just seen this now, and I’m not in the mood for having words put into my mouth implying that I’m some kind of sexist. You guys know my posting habits and my posting style, I’ve only been here for 16 years after all. I’m sorry if my post gave off that impression, but that was never my intent. OK man, no worries. I was responding to what you wrote, if it was a joke that didn't come of as one, OK. I'm stressed out as well at the moment, I get that.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 29, 2022 6:01:05 GMT -5
Saw this somewhere else and curious about people's thoughts if they agree or disagree. "The women's division when Regal introduction the tag belts looked like a group of women with their own different looks, mostly casual wear or ring gear. Few weeks ago when Nattie charged into the lounge it looked like a bunch of models hanging out."
Wow yeah this is a great example of the change. I didn't even notice that. Shit looks like a college sitcom or something and no that's no joke. It's like they think that is the norm. That's horrible. Even the lighting is weird here. Like, come on now. Sleazy. This is a weird critique lol. The women of the old era are dressed casually and had their own looks. Just like the woman of the new era. They're still dressed casually. They just have better fashion but most of them aren't dressed skimpy or anything so I don't get the point trying to be made. Honestly, they just look like what women actually wear these days when they're out.
|
|
|
Post by Raw is Doodie101 on Apr 29, 2022 6:05:14 GMT -5
Also if you got criticism, don't name names. Unless that person did something to you, leave them the f*** outta it. Because it comes off as bitter even if you made a great point.
|
|
|
Post by HMARK Center on Apr 29, 2022 6:26:13 GMT -5
It's almost completely buried it. Nearly all the social media reaction is now Ember vs Mandy fans firing back and forth. Disingenuous stuff, for a name I feel was just being plucked at random by Ember rather than specifically targeted. This turning into a f***ing stan war where everyone just gets petty because a whisper of a negative word detached from a judgment of a person was said, is a f***ing travesty. Too many people are still Weird About Women's Wrestling and it's turned the whole thing into a shitshow it doesn't have to be. Stans are the damn worst, man. This shouldn't be a referendum on if women can be sexy, and a bunch of people who didn't listen taking it out of context to paint her as shitting on Mandy have successfully let the actual meat of all the topic, which goes so much deeper than the sex stuff, slip away without a second thought. It even becomes a problem here, and we don't get a fraction of the nightmare stan fuel that you see pouring all over Twitter or parts of reddit. It's a huge part of why discussions of women's wrestling are insanely frustrating: the level of anger and resentment some fans show over someone "not being used right" or something roars to a boil because it's not enough to just like the person's act, now we've got to contend with a predominantly male fanbase letting their sexual attractions bleed into the conversation. I said it outright in the warning thread on the AEW board, but holy shit, I don't care how turned on you are by whichever wrestler, it's possible to discuss them, their careers, their matches, their characters, etc. without it turning into some kind of tense situation where the people involved come off like they're going to lose their minds on one another. This shit just doesn't happen with men's wrestling most of the time, again given that the bulk of the wrestling fanbase tends to be straight male. I mean, like, I joke around sometimes about how over in AEW Hikaru Shida is kind of my "dream girl"; 'dark haired beautiful woman who's talented and into the performing arts' (singing, piano, dance, etc.) kind of resonates with me. But I'd much rather discuss her booking and usage as I would any other woman on any other show, because I like to think that as a grown ass man I can separate "damn, that woman's attractive" from "let's talk about the pro wrestling show involving pro wrestlers and pro wrestling booking", because again, that's the bare minimum of what an adult should be able to do. Matters only get worse when you deal with a combination of white knights on the one hand, and then the misogynistic goblins on the other who show up to throw gasoline on every flame war, and the whole thing becomes an exercise in toxicity. It's infuriating, and a huge reason why we can't seemingly have serious conversations about women's wrestling in 20-@#$%ing-22.
|
|
Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,817
|
Post by Bo Rida on Apr 29, 2022 7:24:29 GMT -5
Even by the logic of those behind this it's stupid. A wide variety of women will appeal to a wide variety of people that find different things attractive. A roster of clones all dressed the same appeals to a much narrower segment of the audience.
|
|
|
Post by Feargus McReddit on Apr 29, 2022 7:31:51 GMT -5
Even by the logic of those behind this it's stupid. A wide variety of women will appeal to a wide variety of people that find different things attractive. A roster of clones all dressed the same appeals to a much narrower segment of the audience. Also, to put it in a less gendered perspective of sorts…you clearly signed them aware of their size and shape. If you’re annoyed about how they look, one of the things that likely got them noticed by you along with their ability, charisma etc…don’t hire them in the first place. There are wrestlers out there who fit what you might like. Like, if you want Ember Moon to look like Marti Belle, just sign Marti Belle. All your problems would be solved.
|
|
mistery
King Koopa
Posts: 12,001
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Apr 29, 2022 7:45:52 GMT -5
Even by the logic of those behind this it's stupid. A wide variety of women will appeal to a wide variety of people that find different things attractive. A roster of clones all dressed the same appeals to a much narrower segment of the audience. Also, to put it in a less gendered perspective of sorts…you clearly signed them aware of their size and shape. If you’re annoyed about how they look, one of the things that likely got them noticed by you along with their ability, charisma etc…don’t hire them in the first place. There are wrestlers out there who fit what you might like. Like, if you want Ember Moon to look like Marti Belle, just sign Marti Belle. All your problems would be solved. The Marti Belle stuff was really funny in hindsight considering she wrestled a match for them during the MYC and it was the first time I could remember WWE actively calling an audible and changing the finish DURING the match because Marti was so unbelievably bad in the ring. The first MYC was absolutely full of backstage drama between the Marti Belle match, and Tessa Blanchard going full scorched earth on WWE by pissing off every single executive backstage. But anyways I digress. The problem with the constant oversexualization is that its meant to bring in new viewers, but its not working. At all. And telling women they need to dress more skimpy isn't going to solve the problem. Especially telling them to dress more skimpy backstage where none of that stuff matters.
|
|
|
Post by AwamoriRock on Apr 29, 2022 8:03:54 GMT -5
Backstage being a club unexplained is the silliest thing. Don’t get me wrong, I’m all about absurdity in wrestling and more than most I imagine but it doesn’t fit.
|
|
Kalmia
King Koopa
Happy to be here
Posts: 11,955
|
Post by Kalmia on Apr 29, 2022 8:05:03 GMT -5
I'm glad Ember spoke out about this because the oversexualization of so many of the NXT women is one of the largest reasons why I have no interest in NXT. I can only speak for myself (obviously) but seeing this kind of thing is so disheartening to me as a female fan. I don't care if female wrestlers choose to dress sexily or have a sexy gimmick, but when it comes from the company itself it just shows what they think of women and women's wrestling. That's not the kind of company I want to support.
|
|
|
Post by Feyrhausen on Apr 29, 2022 8:12:27 GMT -5
Even by the logic of those behind this it's stupid. A wide variety of women will appeal to a wide variety of people that find different things attractive. A roster of clones all dressed the same appeals to a much narrower segment of the audience. Vince doesnt care about a product that appeals to a large segment of people. He only cares about what he likes.
|
|
mistery
King Koopa
Posts: 12,001
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Apr 29, 2022 8:12:55 GMT -5
Oh yeah, someone dug up the portfolio of the woman who did this "fashion consulting" to the NXT talent and uh...yikes. Sorta NSFW but falls in line with what we've seen on 2.0 from the women being featured heavily. i.imgur.com/rCxoCEv.jpeg
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 29, 2022 8:40:25 GMT -5
Wow yeah this is a great example of the change. I didn't even notice that. Shit looks like a college sitcom or something and no that's no joke. It's like they think that is the norm. That's horrible. Even the lighting is weird here. Like, come on now. Sleazy. This is a weird critique lol. The women of the old era are dressed casually and had their own looks. Just like the woman of the new era. They're still dressed casually. They just have better fashion but most of them aren't dressed skimpy or anything so I don't get the point trying to be made. Honestly, they just look like what women actually wear these days when they're out.That's the point here. They're not out: they're at work. In the older NXT pic most of the women there look natural when you think about what a wrestler might wear backstage at WWE programming. Most of them actually look like if, say they told them to go out there and fight a bit in what they're wearing they'd be able to pull it off. You don't get that in the latter NXT pic. Going back to the report that they implied they should dress "sexier" backstage, look at who these guys are and what they've said in the past to others and it makes sense. An example is Drake Maverick's wife. Remember how they depicted her when she was on Raw during his 24/7 Title days?
That's what they want to see backstage. It's not new.
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Apr 29, 2022 9:03:53 GMT -5
Oh yeah, someone dug up the portfolio of the woman who did this "fashion consulting" to the NXT talent and uh...yikes. Sorta NSFW but falls in line with what we've seen on 2.0 from the women being featured heavily. i.imgur.com/rCxoCEv.jpegIs it necessary to slam how this woman dresses for modeling photos?
|
|
mistery
King Koopa
Posts: 12,001
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Apr 29, 2022 9:10:28 GMT -5
Oh yeah, someone dug up the portfolio of the woman who did this "fashion consulting" to the NXT talent and uh...yikes. Sorta NSFW but falls in line with what we've seen on 2.0 from the women being featured heavily. i.imgur.com/rCxoCEv.jpegIs it necessary to slam how this woman dresses for modeling photos? It's the kind of stuff they want the women backstage in NXT to do. That's why they brought this woman in to do these "consultations". If the women want to do it themselves, that's fine. But WWE management has made it clear they want the women backstage to dress in skimpy outfits like the ones she is showing off in the portfolio there. That's why they brought her in, to give the talent "advice" on how to look like that. Note: I said BACKSTAGE (as in off camera going by the reports).
|
|
|
Post by polarbearpete on Apr 29, 2022 9:13:31 GMT -5
Is it necessary to slam how this woman dresses for modeling photos? It's the kind of stuff they want the women backstage in NXT to do. That's why they brought this woman in to do these "consultations". If the women want to do it themselves, that's fine. But WWE management has made it clear they want the women backstage to dress in skimpy outfits like the ones she is showing off in the portfolio there. That's why they brought her in, to give the talent "advice" on how to look like that. Note: I said BACKSTAGE (as in off camera going by the reports). I’m talking about why you have to make a post to specifically post her photos and slam her essentially. Not necessary, she was just doing what she was hired to do, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with dressing however she wants to dress.
|
|
|
Post by J is Thunder Justice on Apr 29, 2022 9:15:03 GMT -5
This turning into a f***ing stan war where everyone just gets petty because a whisper of a negative word detached from a judgment of a person was said, is a f***ing travesty. Too many people are still Weird About Women's Wrestling and it's turned the whole thing into a shitshow it doesn't have to be. Stans are the damn worst, man. This shouldn't be a referendum on if women can be sexy, and a bunch of people who didn't listen taking it out of context to paint her as shitting on Mandy have successfully let the actual meat of all the topic, which goes so much deeper than the sex stuff, slip away without a second thought. It even becomes a problem here, and we don't get a fraction of the nightmare stan fuel that you see pouring all over Twitter or parts of reddit. It's a huge part of why discussions of women's wrestling are insanely frustrating: the level of anger and resentment some fans show over someone "not being used right" or something roars to a boil because it's not enough to just like the person's act, now we've got to contend with a predominantly male fanbase letting their sexual attractions bleed into the conversation. I said it outright in the warning thread on the AEW board, but holy shit, I don't care how turned on you are by whichever wrestler, it's possible to discuss them, their careers, their matches, their characters, etc. without it turning into some kind of tense situation where the people involved come off like they're going to lose their minds on one another. This shit just doesn't happen with men's wrestling most of the time, again given that the bulk of the wrestling fanbase tends to be straight male. I mean, like, I joke around sometimes about how over in AEW Hikaru Shida is kind of my "dream girl"; 'dark haired beautiful woman who's talented and into the performing arts' (singing, piano, dance, etc.) kind of resonates with me. But I'd much rather discuss her booking and usage as I would any other woman on any other show, because I like to think that as a grown ass man I can separate "damn, that woman's attractive" from "let's talk about the pro wrestling show involving pro wrestlers and pro wrestling booking", because again, that's the bare minimum of what an adult should be able to do. Matters only get worse when you deal with a combination of white knights on the one hand, and then the misogynistic goblins on the other who show up to throw gasoline on every flame war, and the whole thing becomes an exercise in toxicity. It's infuriating, and a huge reason why we can't seemingly have serious conversations about women's wrestling in 20-@#$%ing-22. And then you've got us depressed Liv Morgan fans just sitting in the corner.
|
|
mistery
King Koopa
Posts: 12,001
Member is Online
|
Post by mistery on Apr 29, 2022 9:21:34 GMT -5
It's the kind of stuff they want the women backstage in NXT to do. That's why they brought this woman in to do these "consultations". If the women want to do it themselves, that's fine. But WWE management has made it clear they want the women backstage to dress in skimpy outfits like the ones she is showing off in the portfolio there. That's why they brought her in, to give the talent "advice" on how to look like that. Note: I said BACKSTAGE (as in off camera going by the reports). I’m talking about why you have to make a post to specifically post her photos and slam her essentially. Not necessary, she was just doing what she was hired to do, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with dressing however she wants to dress. It's less slamming her and more along the lines of that's the kind of stuff WWE was (or still is) looking for. I'm not criticizing her for doing her job. But WWE specifically brought her in to push this kinda stuff onto the women backstage. If she or her clients want to dress like that, more power to them. I'm not criticizing her. It's WWE I'm criticizing here, because a lot of the stuff from her portfolio is very risque or overtly sexual, which falls in line with all of the reports that the women are being pressured into dressing in more risque clothing all simply because it makes a bunch of creeps and perverts in management horny.
|
|
Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 16,529
|
Post by Zone Was Wrong on Apr 29, 2022 9:24:06 GMT -5
It's the kind of stuff they want the women backstage in NXT to do. That's why they brought this woman in to do these "consultations". If the women want to do it themselves, that's fine. But WWE management has made it clear they want the women backstage to dress in skimpy outfits like the ones she is showing off in the portfolio there. That's why they brought her in, to give the talent "advice" on how to look like that. Note: I said BACKSTAGE (as in off camera going by the reports). I’m talking about why you have to make a post to specifically post her photos and slam her essentially. Not necessary, she was just doing what she was hired to do, and there’s nothing inherently wrong with dressing however she wants to dress. There was nothing in the post directed at the consultant in a malicious manner. Just that her portfolio reflects what is being seen on screen now and the correlation between her consulting and what is being portrayed now.
|
|