The Blue Nova
Don Corleone
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Posts: 1,399
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Post by The Blue Nova on May 8, 2022 11:27:37 GMT -5
not a fan of the guy as a person but as a character on NXT he was pretty over especially 2018 to 2019 was his peak. Do you think he should of been called up around that time?
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,125
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Post by pinja on May 8, 2022 11:31:48 GMT -5
No, it was too early and he had to prove himself in a few more high-profile feuds. Left to his own devices he felt like a tribute act not understanding what made his feud with Aleister Black compelling. It became obvious his ring work had to mature, while I think there's no doubt that his promo work never felt like his own, so that always needed maturing.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,838
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 8, 2022 11:35:06 GMT -5
In hindsight, no. Even it you take all his personal baggage out of consideration (but who would?), all it took was one injury to completely derail him. His ringwork never got close to the level it was at before.
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Post by Captain Stud Muffin (BLM) on May 8, 2022 11:46:28 GMT -5
No, he was still way too young to call up and needed another year or two of seasoning
He was a high ceiling prospect who had polish but needed to refine things and then the injury to his back happened and he did not recover from that well
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Post by Can you afford to pay me, Gah on May 8, 2022 11:49:48 GMT -5
He wasn't ready, the test was the ability to rebound form an injury which when he came back he was not the same. He could have been a big star and has the potential. Personal baggage aside.
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Post by hashtagdaley/JudasDay on May 8, 2022 12:49:58 GMT -5
Everything about the guy was off when he returned from injury. He was never the best wrestler, but could hang with the Black & Gold workhorses … but that back injury really set him back. And his character was just an absolute dumpster fire afterwards as well.
And that’s without the personal stuff.
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Post by Hypnosis on May 8, 2022 12:51:19 GMT -5
Everything about the guy was off when he returned from injury. He was never the best wrestler, but could hang with the Black & Gold workhorses … but that back injury really set him back. And his character was just an absolute dumpster fire afterwards as well. And that’s without the personal stuff. That Roderick Strong feud.... *shudders*
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Post by The Summer of Muskrat XVII on May 8, 2022 13:25:30 GMT -5
His character work was dialed in, but he was still green as gooseshit in the ring. Issues aside, he still needed 12-18 months of seasoning before being main roster
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on May 8, 2022 13:35:43 GMT -5
Left to his own devices he felt like a tribute act not understanding what made his feud with Aleister Black compelling. Hindsight really damns a lot of the fully and even semi-homegrown prospects, because it's kind of clear that they were very heavily protected and given lots of guidance to start off and then were absolutely lost afterward. Dream had one perfectly plotted, star making feud and then a lot of stuff that never even really approached that artistry again
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Post by Oh Cry Me a Screwball on May 8, 2022 13:40:09 GMT -5
Here's the thing we overlook as fans. The developmental aspect of NXT, even when peak Black and Gold was closer to a full-on third main roster brand than a developmental camp, isn't just about refining physical ability and character work, there's also the human and behavioral aspect as well.
Velveteen Dream was ready for the big time spotlight in 2019. Patrick Clark was not, and if he was held back because of that, than the correct decision was almost certainly made, even before brave individuals like Josh Fuller blew the whistle.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 8, 2022 13:45:42 GMT -5
Left to his own devices he felt like a tribute act not understanding what made his feud with Aleister Black compelling. Hindsight really damns a lot of the fully and even semi-homegrown prospects, because it's kind of clear that they were very heavily protected and given lots of guidance to start off and then were absolutely lost afterward. Dream had one perfectly plotted, star making feud and then a lot of stuff that never even really approached that artistry again That feud was a bit of a perfect storm. Velveteen had yet to really catch on before he starts calling out Black, and it was such an odd pairing on paper that it was like “…OK, I’m confused but interested”. And then they have the actual match, Velveteen absolutely shoots the lights out and, even though he lost, gets as close as you can get to a show of respect from a heavily-tattooed Dutch Satanist. It was the first time you could see all the pieces starting to come together. Unfortunately, they came together just as his spine broke apart, followed quickly by the recently-assembled metaphorical pieces, his popularity and finally his career.
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Post by Shy Guy on May 8, 2022 13:48:10 GMT -5
My friend and I went to a NXT house show in 2017 and velveteen dream was on the card. I remember saying to my friend that he was a good wrestler but it was just missing *something*.
I don't think he ever found that *something*, whatever it may be
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on May 8, 2022 13:51:55 GMT -5
My friend and I went to a NXT house show in 2017 and velveteen dream was on the card. I remember saying to my friend that he was a good wrestler but it was just missing *something*. I don't think he ever found that *something*, whatever it may be He’s actually one of the only two dozen or so wrestlers I’ve seen live when NXT did an Australian tour in 2016. I’m not sure what point of his transition from his previous gimmick he was at, but he didn’t really get to show much at the time, losing in like 30 seconds to Oney Lorcan.
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Chiral
Salacious Crumb
Posts: 76,345
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Post by Chiral on May 8, 2022 13:52:33 GMT -5
Echoing the stuff about post Aleister feud (which was about as perfect as a nice, simple wrestling feud can get IMO), as soon as that was done his ring work seemed significantly sloppier, and his character work went into just like "look at me wearing Hulk Hogan/whatever other famous wrestler's stuff that's my character" and that was before his injury, when he came back after that he regressed even more (the less said about his contributions to the Roddy feud the better) and it felt like all the spark was gone. He went from a dude Cena singled out as a future megastar for the company to a complete nobody, a majority of that all on his own.
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Post by government mule on May 8, 2022 13:54:00 GMT -5
The character work was there and ready to go if booked correctly (ha).
The Aleister Black feud over him saying Dream's name was f***ing fantastic, one of the best that NXT ever done. The attires were mostly great, I personally loved the Rick Rude-esq tights that were personalised to each individual feud. The guy was mostly a good promo and had the heel mannerisms down early on. He was green in the ring, sure, but if done correctly, that could have been covered. I really think he could have been a star attraction fued that didn't necessarily need to involve titles. It felt like they had a f***ing megastar on their hands. Then everything that has been mentioned happened.
What a f***ing waste.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 8, 2022 14:49:17 GMT -5
Even before he turned out to be scum, his ring work was getting worse and worse before he disappeared. He just kept doing weird tributes to other wrestlers, especially Hogan, which were super jarring and out of place.
The character was truly excellent for a while but he was so green.
And also, if they call him up, he likely has even more reach and influence to do awful real life shit. You really cannot separate him from that. So, no, never call him up, however good he was, only hindsight works here
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,838
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Post by Allie Kitsune on May 8, 2022 16:45:56 GMT -5
Left to his own devices he felt like a tribute act not understanding what made his feud with Aleister Black compelling. Hindsight really damns a lot of the fully and even semi-homegrown prospects, because it's kind of clear that they were very heavily protected and given lots of guidance to start off and then were absolutely lost afterward. Dream had one perfectly plotted, star making feud and then a lot of stuff that never even really approached that artistry again I'm gonna be more fair than Patrick Clark probably deserves and say that the Ricochet stuff was well done, too.
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Post by Main Event Mark on May 8, 2022 17:15:49 GMT -5
He had "Call Me Up Vince" on his tights that time. They did not call him up.
Honestly, he may have made it work but I think it would have been like so many other NXT gimmicks and dead in the water on the main roster.
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knsffa
Team Rocket
Missed This Place and People
Posts: 796
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Post by knsffa on May 8, 2022 17:30:43 GMT -5
I've tried to forget about him. My last memory was Ciampa giving him a series of murder knee variants in the early CWC shows. For some reason I recall one of the guy's earliest gimmicks being a misogynist who supports Donald Trump.
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Post by facethatrunstheplace on May 8, 2022 19:06:29 GMT -5
Here's the thing we overlook as fans. The developmental aspect of NXT, even when peak Black and Gold was closer to a full-on third main roster brand than a developmental camp, isn't just about refining physical ability and character work, there's also the human and behavioral aspect as well. Velveteen Dream was ready for the big time spotlight in 2019. Patrick Clark was not, and if he was held back because of that, than the correct decision was almost certainly made, even before brave individuals like Josh Fuller blew the whistle.It would've been interesting to see how he would've done in the main roster, but we'll probably never get the chance to see that, and it sucks. As for the allegations against him, I've addressed these on here numerous times. He was framed by people that were in a group that was called exposing n-words. The people in that group were asked to prove that it wasn't a racist group, but they NEVER did. He was also accused of being a terrible person to work with by someone that works backstage. This stems from the fact that he didn't want to sign something that he wasn't going to make money from. The person that asked him to sign something that was going to sell it on eBay without Patrick getting any of the proceeds.
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