Sasha Banks and Naomi leave Raw after creative dispute

[asuka007]

WWE seems to not want their contracts to really be scrutinized by the courts. If the talent seems like they’re truly willing to fight it, at the very least WWE tries to offer a compromise.

It’s funny seeing Sasha on social media. It seems like she could not care less right now.

[Raw is Doodie101]

I don't see any way this works for WWE losing. Naomi & Sasha walked out at the start of the show. That's most definitely a breach of contract. I don't think WWE should go down that road but yeah.

[Deleted]

Henry's is the most laughable "here's what I would have done..." take on this, he was famously known for being a Vince yes man back in the day and is probably a Khan yes man at his current job.

[nisidhe]

May 21, 2022 18:57:24 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

May 21, 2022 16:35:50 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

If they try and tack on suspension to keep them glued to a contract out of sheer spite, forgive me if I do not see that holding up in court... this will turn into a mess for WWE the longer they string this out.

Depends on the contract language really. They were presumably in breach when they walked out and so the contract language would likely support a suspension for that reason. The contract is for the performer giving a certain number of years of service so the argument (and the contract language) is that if you’re out due to injury or due to suspension caused by your own breach then there is still time owed on the deal.

I don’t think it would necessarily be shot down (though I think at some duration the suspension portion would become unreasonable). There’s also the fact that they may not want to push too much on that issue for fear of someone bringing a lawsuit and adding as one of the counts something to do with the independent contractor designation.

I think the conversation in the public sphere about the situation is raising awareness of how much the "independent contractor" status is being abused.

There's also the negative impact this will have on WWE long-term. Even without a court case in this issue (with the risk of Jerry McDevitt keeling over during a deposition because of the pressure of defending WWE in such a case), I think this may have opened a _huge_ can of worms for WWE's recruitment prospects. How many of these high-schoolers going straight to the PC are being sat down by their parents and the family lawyer to go over those contracts with a fine-tooth comb? How many college athletes are now thinking, "Nah, I'm good" when a WWE talent scout shows up?

And how quickly can Vince replace the roster if, over the course of the next three to five years, even 50% of them were simply to let their contracts expire and either retire or jump ship (bear in mind, most are in their 30s to early 40s now)? How many of those staying will do so at the same rate or even at 10-20% raises? Finally, how might staying negatively impact public perceptions of the talents themselves (either "selling out" or in lockstep with WWE's bosses against the audience?)

To say nothing of the furore that might ensue if it were to come out that this was all a work? It's not likely given what we know, but WWE has been known to spin events like this as Creative decisions. Even so, Sasha and Naomi do not have such contempt for their fans that they would agree to such an angle, nor do I think either would be able to handle the heat that would bear down on them if they did.

To save face, WWE needs to blink first here. If they double down on this, keeping up this stupid trope that the company itself is evil, it may not be that long before fans reach that conclusion and tune out.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2022 20:01:50 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

May 21, 2022 18:57:24 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Depends on the contract language really. They were presumably in breach when they walked out and so the contract language would likely support a suspension for that reason. The contract is for the performer giving a certain number of years of service so the argument (and the contract language) is that if you’re out due to injury or due to suspension caused by your own breach then there is still time owed on the deal.

I don’t think it would necessarily be shot down (though I think at some duration the suspension portion would become unreasonable). There’s also the fact that they may not want to push too much on that issue for fear of someone bringing a lawsuit and adding as one of the counts something to do with the independent contractor designation.

I think the conversation in the public sphere about the situation is raising awareness of how much the "independent contractor" status is being abused.

There's also the negative impact this will have on WWE long-term. Even without a court case in this issue (with the risk of Jerry McDevitt keeling over during a deposition because of the pressure of defending WWE in such a case), I think this may have opened a _huge_ can of worms for WWE's recruitment prospects. How many of these high-schoolers going straight to the PC are being sat down by their parents and the family lawyer to go over those contracts with a fine-tooth comb? How many college athletes are now thinking, "Nah, I'm good" when a WWE talent scout shows up?

And how quickly can Vince replace the roster if, over the course of the next three to five years, even 50% of them were simply to let their contracts expire and either retire or jump ship (bear in mind, most are in their 30s to early 40s now)? How many of those staying will do so at the same rate or even at 10-20% raises? Finally, how might staying negatively impact public perceptions of the talents themselves (either "selling out" or in lockstep with WWE's bosses against the audience?)

To say nothing of the furore that might ensue if it were to come out that this was all a work? It's not likely given what we know, but WWE has been known to spin events like this as Creative decisions. Even so, Sasha and Naomi do not have such contempt for their fans that they would agree to such an angle, nor do I think either would be able to handle the heat that would bear down on them if they did.

To save face, WWE needs to blink first here. If they double down on this, keeping up this stupid trope that the company itself is evil, it may not be that long before fans reach that conclusion and tune out.

There's a near-zero chance this is a work.

The thing with Sasha is that she is very well connected and if she really wanted to dig her heels in, could get someone not named Konstantine Kyros to take it to court.

If that happens, I can nearly guarantee that she'll get released from her contract, albeit with an NDA as long as my left leg.

[Deleted]

May 21, 2022 20:01:50 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

May 21, 2022 18:57:24 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Depends on the contract language really. They were presumably in breach when they walked out and so the contract language would likely support a suspension for that reason. The contract is for the performer giving a certain number of years of service so the argument (and the contract language) is that if you’re out due to injury or due to suspension caused by your own breach then there is still time owed on the deal.

I don’t think it would necessarily be shot down (though I think at some duration the suspension portion would become unreasonable). There’s also the fact that they may not want to push too much on that issue for fear of someone bringing a lawsuit and adding as one of the counts something to do with the independent contractor designation.

There's also the negative impact this will have on WWE long-term. Even without a court case in this issue (with the risk of Jerry McDevitt keeling over during a deposition because of the pressure of defending WWE in such a case), I think this may have opened a _huge_ can of worms for WWE's recruitment prospects. How many of these high-schoolers going straight to the PC are being sat down by their parents and the family lawyer to go over those contracts with a fine-tooth comb? How many college athletes are now thinking, "Nah, I'm good" when a WWE talent scout shows up?

to me, if I were a prospect they were looking at, the "Getting released without warning" and "your 3 year contract is really in 90 day increments over and over"
are bigger problems than anything sasha/naomi did. they decided to leave/not come to work on their own. the other is the company taking your job away from you without notice. That would have me setting up a plan B just in case knowing that it's coming at some point, on the day I was signing my contract for my first day of work before I ever got there.

[Pgarodactyl]

Monday night we'll hear stories about people having pro-Sasha/Naomi signs confiscated at Raw.

I'd bet the farm on that if I had the farm.

[cjb01: Limited Edition Item!]

This isn't a lie btw, I have the return dislikes app installed. It's actually over 21K now.

[asuka007]

I feel like WWE are making the PR worse for themselves with how they’ve handled this.

It feels like it’s gone from “there’s a case to be made on either side” to “this company is just being arrogant and petty A-holes” now.

It does not help that it’s two black women either from what I’ve seen.

[prettynami]

What sane people do when they think someone is being "unprofessional" is go on a random, petty, and public smear campaign that makes themselves and their targeted party look like they jumped into a swimming pool full of poop. That is what we all call PROFESSIONAL. lololololololol

[lucas_lee]

WWE shooting itself in the foot to support themselves. As always and knowing history they'll probably stumble onto a solution to all of this while doing a lot of dumb ****

[gl83]

May 21, 2022 20:18:12 GMT -5 @batfanman said:

May 21, 2022 20:01:50 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

There's also the negative impact this will have on WWE long-term. Even without a court case in this issue (with the risk of Jerry McDevitt keeling over during a deposition because of the pressure of defending WWE in such a case), I think this may have opened a _huge_ can of worms for WWE's recruitment prospects. How many of these high-schoolers going straight to the PC are being sat down by their parents and the family lawyer to go over those contracts with a fine-tooth comb? How many college athletes are now thinking, "Nah, I'm good" when a WWE talent scout shows up?

to me, if I were a prospect they were looking at, the "Getting released without warning" and "your 3 year contract is really in 90 day increments over and over"
are bigger problems than anything sasha/naomi did. they decided to leave/not come to work on their own. the other is the company taking your job away from you without notice. That would have me setting up a plan B just in case knowing that it's coming at some point, on the day I was signing my contract for my first day of work before I ever got there.

Couple this with the whole upending your life and moving to Orlando where you may or may not get fired 90 days in.

[asuka007]

That’s basically what Taya Valkyrie did.

[polarbearpete]

May 21, 2022 20:01:50 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

May 21, 2022 18:57:24 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

Depends on the contract language really. They were presumably in breach when they walked out and so the contract language would likely support a suspension for that reason. The contract is for the performer giving a certain number of years of service so the argument (and the contract language) is that if you’re out due to injury or due to suspension caused by your own breach then there is still time owed on the deal.

I don’t think it would necessarily be shot down (though I think at some duration the suspension portion would become unreasonable). There’s also the fact that they may not want to push too much on that issue for fear of someone bringing a lawsuit and adding as one of the counts something to do with the independent contractor designation.

I think the conversation in the public sphere about the situation is raising awareness of how much the "independent contractor" status is being abused.

There's also the negative impact this will have on WWE long-term. Even without a court case in this issue (with the risk of Jerry McDevitt keeling over during a deposition because of the pressure of defending WWE in such a case), I think this may have opened a _huge_ can of worms for WWE's recruitment prospects. How many of these high-schoolers going straight to the PC are being sat down by their parents and the family lawyer to go over those contracts with a fine-tooth comb? How many college athletes are now thinking, "Nah, I'm good" when a WWE talent scout shows up?

And how quickly can Vince replace the roster if, over the course of the next three to five years, even 50% of them were simply to let their contracts expire and either retire or jump ship (bear in mind, most are in their 30s to early 40s now)? How many of those staying will do so at the same rate or even at 10-20% raises? Finally, how might staying negatively impact public perceptions of the talents themselves (either "selling out" or in lockstep with WWE's bosses against the audience?)

To say nothing of the furore that might ensue if it were to come out that this was all a work? It's not likely given what we know, but WWE has been known to spin events like this as Creative decisions. Even so, Sasha and Naomi do not have such contempt for their fans that they would agree to such an angle, nor do I think either would be able to handle the heat that would bear down on them if they did.

To save face, WWE needs to blink first here. If they double down on this, keeping up this stupid trope that the company itself is evil, it may not be that long before fans reach that conclusion and tune out.

The Naomi/Sasha walkout and smear campaign (same thing that happened with Austin and Punk) won’t even be on anyone that’s being scouted’s radar. The slippery slope painted in your post is not very realistic. We’ve already seen popular names re-sign with the company and remain popular just in recent months (Owens, Zayn, Cody).

[Renslayer]

Can't believe they thought this petty shit would work. Eek

[Perd]

I hope Naomi and Sasha go to AEW asnThe Walkoutsiders.

["Magic" Mark Hurr]

May 21, 2022 20:39:05 GMT -5 cjb01: Limited Edition Item! said:

This isn't a lie btw, I have the return dislikes app installed. It's actually over 21K now.

I wish there was a way to like the fact that it was disliked

[Deleted]

May 21, 2022 21:16:28 GMT -5 polarbearpete said:

May 21, 2022 20:01:50 GMT -5 nisidhe said:

I think the conversation in the public sphere about the situation is raising awareness of how much the "independent contractor" status is being abused.

There's also the negative impact this will have on WWE long-term. Even without a court case in this issue (with the risk of Jerry McDevitt keeling over during a deposition because of the pressure of defending WWE in such a case), I think this may have opened a _huge_ can of worms for WWE's recruitment prospects. How many of these high-schoolers going straight to the PC are being sat down by their parents and the family lawyer to go over those contracts with a fine-tooth comb? How many college athletes are now thinking, "Nah, I'm good" when a WWE talent scout shows up?

And how quickly can Vince replace the roster if, over the course of the next three to five years, even 50% of them were simply to let their contracts expire and either retire or jump ship (bear in mind, most are in their 30s to early 40s now)? How many of those staying will do so at the same rate or even at 10-20% raises? Finally, how might staying negatively impact public perceptions of the talents themselves (either "selling out" or in lockstep with WWE's bosses against the audience?)

To say nothing of the furore that might ensue if it were to come out that this was all a work? It's not likely given what we know, but WWE has been known to spin events like this as Creative decisions. Even so, Sasha and Naomi do not have such contempt for their fans that they would agree to such an angle, nor do I think either would be able to handle the heat that would bear down on them if they did.

To save face, WWE needs to blink first here. If they double down on this, keeping up this stupid trope that the company itself is evil, it may not be that long before fans reach that conclusion and tune out.

The Naomi/Sasha walkout and smear campaign (same thing that happened with Austin and Punk) won’t even be on anyone that’s being scouted’s radar. The slippery slope painted in your post is not very realistic. We’ve already seen popular names re-sign with the company and remain popular just in recent months (Owens, Zayn, Cody).

I detest the WWE's business practices, but you're right. Anyone thinking this will have any major negative impact on business is overestimating just how ubiquitous and ingrained the WWE is.

As with most things in life, sadly, this is a pay to win game. Sasha (and Naomi by association) can probably get out of their contracts by making it more financially worthwhile for the WWE to settle with an NDA than fight them on it and risk the precedent of their contracts being shredded. Not everyone has Sasha's connections.

[Deleted]

I understand the common nature to side with the person over the company but no one will convince me that walking out over creative (and not a breach of contract on WWE's part in negligence, sexual harassment etc) is justifiable in a performing arts industry whether these people get paid hourly, salary, or in food stamps. You do not just walk off the damn job because you did not get your way.

"Sasha Banks" is WWE intellectual property and she absolutely has written documents to perform as that character and wholeheartedly agreed to do. Hell if an actor walks away or has a dispute 9 out of 10 times they kill off the character in a tv series and move on.

Fans get so caught up in the emotional aspect of what they believe these wrestlers deserve from a creative standpoint and just how they feel about the workers in general that they fail to realize this is still a job and not just a passion play for the people involved.

If legit reasons other than creative come up then those should absolutely be taken into account but this social media positioning of them as martyrs or the lesser of two evils is frustrating and makes me pretty upset at them as a fan.

I am not even trying to defend WWE intentionally as they will do what WWE does to benefit WWE. The fact that we are surprised by it but not shocked is almost funny in itself. I just simply do not defend abandoning post. Some people have used the blindsided releases of WWE to justify this and it's actually not the same either considering their pay does not just stop most times...The entire 90-day period IS that paid transition period even if it's designed to cool them off professionally.

[asuka007]

I could not care less.

WWE fires people during a pandemic despite making record profits by the dozens, just because. But people who WANT to leave, like Ali and Roddy, are held hostage just because someone else MIGHT use them better.

So why should I care if someone turns the table on WWE? Especially when WWE seems to be trying to pit talent against each other as well? That’s just a flat out toxic work environment.