ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on May 20, 2022 23:26:32 GMT -5
THANK. YOU. Not directing this at OP. They’re not a fan of NJPW because they’re not familiar with it. Ok cool. But good god…the online handwringing about AEW not “doing anything” and just “assuming everyone watches all the vlogs, etc” is consistently disproven over and over by the massive pops in every arena dudes like DANHAUSEN have gotten without working a single match. It f***ing tiring to be honest. But to OPs original point…. Yeah. As others have already said. DON is the focus right now. You watch, outside of the usual post-PPV stuff the seeds for Forbidden Door will start to be spread on the first Dynamite after DON. And by the time the show rolls around shit’ll be white hot. To be fair AEW caters to one audience and finding 4k of 1 million wherever they go isn't that surprising because of how well they have catered to them and that is great on them but it also explains why their crowd is always so hot too. These crowds are 99% online crowds and not someone picking up a ticket because they heard AEW is in town. I can’t argue against that. But I think they’re way more adept at marketing to The Internet Age than the other guys without it feeling forced (and on probably 1/10 of the budget) and also understand that generally speaking this isn’t 1998 and they don’t have to spell everything out down to the screws for something or someone to get over. But it’s honestly hard for me to look at it objectively since I’m a dyed in the wool Day 1 diehard. It’s why I use snark/sarcasm/gifs most of the time instead of engaging with things. I may be a diehard but I’ll NEVER be one of those blinders on die hards who can’t see the other side of an argument.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 20, 2022 23:31:14 GMT -5
To be fair AEW caters to one audience and finding 4k of 1 million wherever they go isn't that surprising because of how well they have catered to them and that is great on them but it also explains why their crowd is always so hot too. These crowds are 99% online crowds and not someone picking up a ticket because they heard AEW is in town. I can’t argue against that. But I think they’re way more adept at marketing to The Internet Age than the other guys without it feeling forced (and on probably 1/10 of the budget) and also understand that generally speaking this isn’t 1998 and they don’t have to spell everything out down to the screws for something or someone to get over. But it’s honestly hard for me to look at it objectively since I’m a dyed in the wool Day 1 diehard. It’s why I use snark/sarcasm/gifs most of the time instead of engaging with things. I may be a diehard but I’ll NEVER be one of those blinders on die hards who can’t see the other side of an argument. Same tbh, I argue against a lot of stuff, but I get people's frustrations. How people absorb wrestling is very different than they did even five years ago with how much things change. It's just gonna be how it is, but AEW's done a lot to try and broaden its horizons to a ton of different fanbases all over the world, and I don't think them continuing to try that is a bad thing, even if it frustrates some fans, I hope when DoN ends, they rev up for Forbidden Door, but they'll have well over a month, and frankly, AEW seems to like it when they have a shorter build to a big event.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 20, 2022 23:34:14 GMT -5
They havent really started the build
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on May 20, 2022 23:37:11 GMT -5
I can’t argue against that. But I think they’re way more adept at marketing to The Internet Age than the other guys without it feeling forced (and on probably 1/10 of the budget) and also understand that generally speaking this isn’t 1998 and they don’t have to spell everything out down to the screws for something or someone to get over. But it’s honestly hard for me to look at it objectively since I’m a dyed in the wool Day 1 diehard. It’s why I use snark/sarcasm/gifs most of the time instead of engaging with things. I may be a diehard but I’ll NEVER be one of those blinders on die hards who can’t see the other side of an argument. Same tbh, I argue against a lot of stuff, but I get people's frustrations. How people absorb wrestling is very different than they did even five years ago with how much things change. It's just gonna be how it is, but AEW's done a lot to try and broaden its horizons to a ton of different fanbases all over the world, and I don't think them continuing to try that is a bad thing, even if it frustrates some fans, I hope when DoN ends, they rev up for Forbidden Door, but they'll have well over a month, and frankly, AEW seems to like it when they have a shorter build to a big event. I genuinely think a lot of the frustration comes from people being conditioned that other companies exist in this void outside the bubble of each wrestling company. Like how for years nothing existed outside of the WWE bubble post-WCW collapse. Referencing other companies by name so rarely happened that when it DID live audiences audibly gasped and the online chatter was “oh so and so was shootin on Raw!” See; Bomb, Pipe
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on May 20, 2022 23:42:48 GMT -5
You can't start the build really until Double or Nothing is past us. They essentially sold the building out so they're covered there. Now it's about driving PPV buys. Most buys are made in the final days before the show so they just need to heat up the angles in those four weeks. And that's plenty of time. Unlike WCW in 1995, the New Japan talent are largely somewhat known quantities to the American audience. And if some are unfamiliar, it won't take long to familiarize them.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
Fry's dog Seymour
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on May 20, 2022 23:48:15 GMT -5
You can't start the build really until Double or Nothing is past us. They essentially sold the building out so they're covered there. Now it's about driving PPV buys. Most buys are made in the final days before the show so they just need to heat up the angles in those four weeks. And that's plenty of time. Unlike WCW in 1995, the New Japan talent are largely somewhat known quantities to the American audience. And if some are unfamiliar, it won't take long to familiarize them. Yeah exactly. Like, only the staunchest of tribalistic blinders on diehards could make a list of 10 best wrestlers alive today and not have it feature at least - at a bare minimum - 3 to 5 NJPW workers. my 14 year son knows who Okada, Naito, Osprey, Bullet Club & Tanahashi are. Granted, he’s not your average 14 year old in 2022 when it comes to his wrestling (and sports…and music…) fandom but still I think that says something.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 0:09:54 GMT -5
To be fair AEW caters to one audience and finding 4k of 1 million wherever they go isn't that surprising because of how well they have catered to them and that is great on them but it also explains why their crowd is always so hot too. These crowds are 99% online crowds and not someone picking up a ticket because they heard AEW is in town. I can’t argue against that. But I think they’re way more adept at marketing to The Internet Age than the other guys without it feeling forced (and on probably 1/10 of the budget) and also understand that generally speaking this isn’t 1998 and they don’t have to spell everything out down to the screws for something or someone to get over. But it’s honestly hard for me to look at it objectively since I’m a dyed in the wool Day 1 diehard. It’s why I use snark/sarcasm/gifs most of the time instead of engaging with things. I may be a diehard but I’ll NEVER be one of those blinders on die hards who can’t see the other side of an argument. Yes but some fans that have gravitated after trying it out have been so accustomed to consuming wrestling via the television shows and pay-per-view format that they do not follow the majority of the online product. It is always a situation when your biggest vehicle for attention isn't providing answers to viewers questions. There absolutely should be more than a ticker to help explain some of the constant ranking changes and pairings even if presented in an ESPN quick take format. These things aren't hand-holding they just get someone up to date real quick who maybe doesn't have the ability or desire to search it themselves. These are by and large great issues to have when AEWs problem is they are so great to one fanbase that everyone should get a slice but to devalue helping your viewer enjoy your product is asinine
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Post by polarbearpete on May 21, 2022 0:12:09 GMT -5
You can't start the build really until Double or Nothing is past us. They essentially sold the building out so they're covered there. Now it's about driving PPV buys. Most buys are made in the final days before the show so they just need to heat up the angles in those four weeks. And that's plenty of time. Unlike WCW in 1995, the New Japan talent are largely somewhat known quantities to the American audience. And if some are unfamiliar, it won't take long to familiarize them. Yeah exactly. Like, only the staunchest of tribalistic blinders on diehards could make a list of 10 best wrestlers alive today and not have it feature at least - at a bare minimum - 3 to 5 NJPW workers. my 14 year son knows who Okada, Naito, Osprey, Bullet Club & Tanahashi are. Granted, he’s not your average 14 year old in 2022 when it comes to his wrestling (and sports…and music…) fandom but still I think that says something. I don’t think that’s true. I watch every AEW, WWE and NXT show on TV but I wouldn’t include anyone from New Japan on a top 10 because I’ve only seen at most a handful of matches of those guys, despite knowing and reading about their reputations online.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 21, 2022 0:15:12 GMT -5
I can’t argue against that. But I think they’re way more adept at marketing to The Internet Age than the other guys without it feeling forced (and on probably 1/10 of the budget) and also understand that generally speaking this isn’t 1998 and they don’t have to spell everything out down to the screws for something or someone to get over. But it’s honestly hard for me to look at it objectively since I’m a dyed in the wool Day 1 diehard. It’s why I use snark/sarcasm/gifs most of the time instead of engaging with things. I may be a diehard but I’ll NEVER be one of those blinders on die hards who can’t see the other side of an argument. Yes but some fans that have gravitated after trying it out have been so accustomed to consuming wrestling via the television shows and pay-per-view format that they do not follow the majority of the online product. It is always a situation when your biggest vehicle for attention isn't providing answers to viewers questions. There absolutely should be more than a ticker to help explain some of the constant ranking changes and pairings even if presented in an ESPN quick take format. These things aren't hand-holding they just get someone up to date real quick who maybe doesn't have the ability or desire to search it themselves. These are by and large great issues to have when AEWs problem is they are so great to one fanbase that everyone should get a slice but to devalue helping your viewer enjoy your product is asinine For me, arguing about how AEW is handling the Forbidden Door build in general doesn't seem to work when they aren't even on the road to it yet... if we're a week out and they've done almost nothing to integrate the fanbase on why things should matter or you should care in any base sense, I think there's more discussion to be had here on devaluing the help to the viewer, but DoN isn't even done yet, it'd be overload to have all of this going on, and then also have a bunch of guys from New Japan lurking in the wings Personally I like the seeds planted so far. Jay White and Bullet Club, Punk saying he popularized the GTS and not KENTA, FYR wanting the IWGP tag belts for their collection, there are little things I'm seeing that already hint to what they could do for the PPV, and it's all promising and can lead to good developments. I just think until we get past DoN we're not gonna know how hard they're gonna push it... but given how big of a deal this seems to be for Tony and New Japan, they aren't gonna half ass it for viewers, at least that'd be my hedged bet. I think a HUGE thing and I mean a huge thing, is if Kenny Omega comes back... that's huge for a lot of reasons, but if he ain't ready, then I hope he continues to take his time, maybe appears but doesn't wrestle.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 21, 2022 0:16:52 GMT -5
Yeah exactly. Like, only the staunchest of tribalistic blinders on diehards could make a list of 10 best wrestlers alive today and not have it feature at least - at a bare minimum - 3 to 5 NJPW workers. my 14 year son knows who Okada, Naito, Osprey, Bullet Club & Tanahashi are. Granted, he’s not your average 14 year old in 2022 when it comes to his wrestling (and sports…and music…) fandom but still I think that says something. I don’t think that’s true. I watch every AEW, WWE and NXT show on TV but I wouldn’t include anyone from New Japan on a top 10 because I’ve only seen at most a handful of matches of those guys, despite knowing and reading about their reputations online. In that case, I hope the Forbidden Door dazzles you if we are getting the names I think we're gonna get for this.
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2022 0:19:13 GMT -5
Yes but some fans that have gravitated after trying it out have been so accustomed to consuming wrestling via the television shows and pay-per-view format that they do not follow the majority of the online product. It is always a situation when your biggest vehicle for attention isn't providing answers to viewers questions. There absolutely should be more than a ticker to help explain some of the constant ranking changes and pairings even if presented in an ESPN quick take format. These things aren't hand-holding they just get someone up to date real quick who maybe doesn't have the ability or desire to search it themselves. These are by and large great issues to have when AEWs problem is they are so great to one fanbase that everyone should get a slice but to devalue helping your viewer enjoy your product is asinine For me, arguing about how AEW is handling the Forbidden Door build in general doesn't seem to work when they aren't even on the road to it yet... if we're a week out and they've done almost nothing to integrate the fanbase on why things should matter or you should care in any base sense, I think there's more discussion to be had here on devaluing the help to the viewer, but DoN isn't even done yet, it'd be overload to have all of this going on, and then also have a bunch of guys from New Japan lurking in the wings Personally I like the seeds planted so far. Jay White and Bullet Club, Punk saying he popularized the GTS and not KENTA, FYR wanting the IWGP tag belts for their collection, there are little things I'm seeing that already hint to what they could do for the PPV, and it's all promising and can lead to good developments. I just think until we get past DoN we're not gonna know how hard they're gonna push it... but given how big of a deal this seems to be for Tony and New Japan, they aren't gonna half ass it for viewers, at least that'd be my hedged bet. I think a HUGE thing and I mean a huge thing, is if Kenny Omega comes back... that's huge for a lot of reasons, but if he ain't ready, then I hope he continues to take his time, maybe appears but doesn't wrestle. My statement was completely general as this situation is an ongoing discussion amongst the fanbase. Grow and possibly change or stay self-contained and content seems to be the narrative. For some reason a line is drawn that both is impossible
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on May 21, 2022 0:23:14 GMT -5
For me, arguing about how AEW is handling the Forbidden Door build in general doesn't seem to work when they aren't even on the road to it yet... if we're a week out and they've done almost nothing to integrate the fanbase on why things should matter or you should care in any base sense, I think there's more discussion to be had here on devaluing the help to the viewer, but DoN isn't even done yet, it'd be overload to have all of this going on, and then also have a bunch of guys from New Japan lurking in the wings Personally I like the seeds planted so far. Jay White and Bullet Club, Punk saying he popularized the GTS and not KENTA, FYR wanting the IWGP tag belts for their collection, there are little things I'm seeing that already hint to what they could do for the PPV, and it's all promising and can lead to good developments. I just think until we get past DoN we're not gonna know how hard they're gonna push it... but given how big of a deal this seems to be for Tony and New Japan, they aren't gonna half ass it for viewers, at least that'd be my hedged bet. I think a HUGE thing and I mean a huge thing, is if Kenny Omega comes back... that's huge for a lot of reasons, but if he ain't ready, then I hope he continues to take his time, maybe appears but doesn't wrestle. My statement was completely general as this situation is an ongoing discussion amongst the fanbase. Grow and possibly change or stay self-contained and content seems to be the narrative. For some reason a line is drawn that both is impossible Fair enough, I do think that AEW has shown the ability to keep growing though, at least their ratings and buyrates show it, and I hope they keep showing it as time goes on and this stuff helps. Gaining more international fans is a really big way to go too, as a lot of Japan peeps are just getting introduced to AEW now through this venture. I don't think both is really impossible, it's just gonna vary greatly on how people consume products as well, which we've even seen alone in this thread.
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Post by oxbaker on May 21, 2022 0:28:24 GMT -5
Same tbh, I argue against a lot of stuff, but I get people's frustrations. How people absorb wrestling is very different than they did even five years ago with how much things change. It's just gonna be how it is, but AEW's done a lot to try and broaden its horizons to a ton of different fanbases all over the world, and I don't think them continuing to try that is a bad thing, even if it frustrates some fans, I hope when DoN ends, they rev up for Forbidden Door, but they'll have well over a month, and frankly, AEW seems to like it when they have a shorter build to a big event. I genuinely think a lot of the frustration comes from people being conditioned that other companies exist in this void outside the bubble of each wrestling company. Like how for years nothing existed outside of the WWE bubble post-WCW collapse. Referencing other companies by name so rarely happened that when it DID live audiences audibly gasped and the online chatter was “oh so and so was shootin on Raw!” See; Bomb, Pipe I don’t particularly like that sentiment: ‘well anyone who doesn’t love AEW and everything about it is just brainwashed by WWE’ is an oft-repeated theme (although not always stated as strongly as I just did) and it’s, well, lazy, and another way to feed into tribalism. (“The only reason anyone wouldn’t love what I love is because they’ve been corrupted by a thing I don’t like.”) My favorite promotion for the last 10 years or so has been ROH — I’ve driven up to 9 or 10 hours round trip to see their shows. I’ve been to WWE and ROH and (one) AEW show (only one near me I could make) as well as DGUSA and Evolve and Chikara and a bunch of others. I don’t think WWE has taken over my brain. I like some things in AEW and others not so much. It’s not because I think everything should be like WWE. I like to see wrestling presented different ways. As for the topic of this thread, AEW doesn’t need to make me care about NJPW. I’ve watched enough of it to form an opinion and while they’ve had some great matches and I’ll still catch one here or there on the internet, mostly it’s not for me (although some of the performers are really good). I don’t think AEW *could* sell me on it.
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Rave
El Dandy
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Post by Rave on May 21, 2022 1:15:14 GMT -5
So, I don't watch NJPW, or indeed really any wrestling outside of AEW and WWE. I'm a fan of AEW and think they are providing an interesting alternative to WWE while also doing some similar beats. But, I dont get the NJPW Forbidden Door stuff. I understand how others are - those who follow all of pro-wrestling and who care about the Japanese scene and such, but as someone whose knowledge and exposure is very much the North American main stream scene, I don't know why I'm meant to care about the NJPW people or the whole Forbidden Door stuff. I dont think it would take much to make me care; a few narrated video packages would likely be enough to get me to care about who I'm seeing or why the Forbidden door is worth breaking down - but as it stands, I don't care. Can anyone recommend me anything to help make me care? A podcast, a Youtube video show that dissects this sort of thing? Anything that is going to make me interested in this event and the people linked to it at all? It'll be easier once we're post-DoN and actually get confirmed matches for this, but for now... Try The Recount. These are narrated by Kevin Kelly and cover CHAOS, Bullet Club up to Jay White taking it over (so none of the more recent upheavals), the Okada/Omega rivalry, and Hiroshi Tanahashi, among a few other things. Skip the Ospreay video, it's an advert for a mobile game, no idea why it's in that list. The New Japan Youtube channel also offers free episodes of STRONG, which is the weekly show for NJPW's American branch.
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Bo Rida
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Post by Bo Rida on May 21, 2022 1:38:22 GMT -5
I just hope they show clips of what's happening on the njpw side of the build this time. Felt like half the story was missing with their impact partnership and some previous njpw appearances could have done with it.
They have used some brief footage from njpw so it looks promising.
I'm sure there's people out there thinking Takeshita and Itoh were related to forbidden door too if they don't catch Excalibur's speed reading. With new signings and RoH talent there's a lot of new people to absorb.
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Post by Lizuka #BLM on May 22, 2022 7:39:59 GMT -5
If anything I'm kind of hoping the NJPW stuff is kept to a bare minimum and they don't do a lot to build it up, largely since I prefer when companies stay in their lane and can't claim to have any interest whatsoever in seeing a crossover show. I'd a lot rather Forbidden Door be treated as some side novelty thing for the people who are into the idea of a crossover than treated as a big deal as the center of storytelling because end of the day I watch AEW for AEW and want the focus to be on it, and if I especially cared about NJPW I'd be watching it more than once or twice a year.
Really at the end of the day when it comes to crossovers my general opinion of them is, "Pointless. If I want X I'll watch X, I don't need to see it intrude on Y." Probably also part of my reflexive do-not-care about pretty much everything to do with ROH.
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Post by chronocross on May 22, 2022 7:52:28 GMT -5
As for myself, I can't say I'm overly excited for this show as I don't follow NJPW but I'm willing to see where it goes. I know of some of the talents like Jay White and Suzuki but that's about it.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on May 22, 2022 7:54:24 GMT -5
As for myself, I can't say I'm overly excited for this show as I don't follow NJPW but I'm willing to see where it goes. I know of some of the talents like Jay White and Suzuki but that's about it. This is honestly the part of the fanbase I am most interested in seeing how they react. I dont have deep knowledge but I feel like enough to get invested. But I am curious how well they will build someone that isnt particually excited but willing to follow along which I assume is actually a big part of the fanbase
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Post by Cyno on May 22, 2022 11:30:39 GMT -5
I got into AEW because of New Japan and Ring of Honor. I've been anticipating this kind of show since Day 1.
Really hope Kenny Omega gets to be a part of it as apparently he did a lot behind the scenes to make it happen.
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The Ichi
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Post by The Ichi on May 22, 2022 12:01:12 GMT -5
"Only smarks care about Japanese wrestling."
"Why isn't this company spoon-feeding me Japanese wrestling"
Seriously though, I feel like if you want to be up to date on NJPW, it's a YouTube video away.
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