Futureraven: Beelzebruv
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by Futureraven: Beelzebruv on May 22, 2022 14:13:55 GMT -5
Personally, thought video packages are always a help, and the hype will probably kick into high gear, they've laid a lot of groundwork with NJPW.
Even before all the forbidden door stuff, they'd regularly mention the success of guys in Japan. In commentary, they'd list title, names of opponents, building up their guys' resumes, but also low key building awareness of who was over in Japan, who was important, the names of companies.
So when people arrive, it's not cold, or after a couple of weeks, people know, oh, it's X who beat a, b, c, the same as Kenny Omega, or who was trained by the same guys etc.
Could they be more in your face about it? Sure, but this has been fine, AEW has earned a bit of wait and see when it comes time for the big event.
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Post by KAMALARAMBO: BOOMSHAKALAKA!!! on May 22, 2022 15:00:02 GMT -5
Is failing to include Lord Tensai ruining the crossover gimmick?
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Kalmia
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Post by Kalmia on May 22, 2022 16:58:07 GMT -5
It's going to be really interesting to see how AEW deals with the build for Forbidden Door because I don't think there is a way to do it that will please everyone.
If AEW spends lots of time introducing NJPW talent and creating deep storylines for every match at the PPV, some fans will be unhappy at seeing so many temporary new people taking time from AEW wrestlers.
If AEW treats it as a series of exhibition matches and doesn't do much build, then some fans will be unhappy at not being fully introduced to these new wrestlers.
We've seen examples of both in this thread, and neither point of view is wrong.
Honestly, I think the build to Forbidden Door could become insufferable with different fans wanting different things. I think that sometimes, as fans, we just need to acknowledge that things may not be for us. It doesn't mean we're wrong or that AEW is doing it wrong or failing, just that it's not our thing and that's fine.
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Post by "Gizzark" Mike Wronglevenay on May 23, 2022 9:27:29 GMT -5
I have to say that I think the issue with not explaining who talent is, something which I complain about a lot, doesn't apply here at all
They have a whole other show to build to before they get there
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Post by Citizen Snips on May 23, 2022 11:31:35 GMT -5
I think Tony may be influenced by his ECW fandom here. Heyman didn’t play a bunch of lucha libre clips weeks before their debut, he just threw Rey and Psicosis at the crowd one night. So the fans started the match chanting “Po-wer Ran-gers” and ended the match with a standing ovation. The “unknown” talents were basically counted on to get themselves over (and fast) with a demanding crowd.
I could see the build taking a very “You know these guys? Great, buckle up. Never heard of them? Well, they’re going to show you what’s what in the ring” approach.
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ASYLUMHAUSEN
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Post by ASYLUMHAUSEN on May 23, 2022 14:50:33 GMT -5
Is failing to include Lord Tensai ruining the crossover gimmick? It’s an old meme but it checks out.
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Post by oxbaker on May 23, 2022 15:12:47 GMT -5
It's going to be really interesting to see how AEW deals with the build for Forbidden Door because I don't think there is a way to do it that will please everyone. If AEW spends lots of time introducing NJPW talent and creating deep storylines for every match at the PPV, some fans will be unhappy at seeing so many temporary new people taking time from AEW wrestlers. If AEW treats it as a series of exhibition matches and doesn't do much build, then some fans will be unhappy at not being fully introduced to these new wrestlers. We've seen examples of both in this thread, and neither point of view is wrong. Honestly, I think the build to Forbidden Door could become insufferable with different fans wanting different things. I think that sometimes, as fans, we just need to acknowledge that things may not be for us. It doesn't mean we're wrong or that AEW is doing it wrong or failing, just that it's not our thing and that's fine. I’m a fairly indifferent party to the Forbidden Door AEW/NJPW crossover. I’m not a big fan of New Japan and probably will only watch clips of it. So take this for what it’s worth — I’m talking concept rather than speaking out of passion for this particular show. That being said, to me this kind of thing works best as an all-star game. Which is to say, set it up and sell it as a series of one-of-a-kind dream matches that you can’t get anywhere else or anytime else. The audience who knows and cares about Time Splitters and some interaction years ago can care about that aspect and maybe commentary can drop a few lines, but the appeal here as I see it isn’t continuing some long-dormant storylines or creating some quickly just for this show — ‘wow, these guys who haven’t interacted before or haven’t for a long time now hate each other, it’s a grudge match’ seems shallow to me. The appeal is ‘this guy is huge in AEW, this guy is huge in Japan … let’s see who wins and how their styles mesh.’ Maybe think of it more like the Olympics — big stage where the best in the world (or some of them) face off with a big stage in a rare showdown. Yeah, the best track athletes and swimmers and boxers, etc., compete in world championships and such every year, but nobody is paying attention until the Olympics — and these guys don’t even do that. The spectacle is that this hasn’t happened before and for all we know may not happen again. So it’s a rare opportunity to see them in the same ring. (I expect a lot of multi-man tags, but the off chance it has of getting me to buy would be a series of singles matches with maybe a couple of regular tag matches between the best teams on each roster.)
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Legion
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Post by Legion on Jun 12, 2022 8:42:22 GMT -5
I think Tony may be influenced by his ECW fandom here. Heyman didn’t play a bunch of lucha libre clips weeks before their debut, he just threw Rey and Psicosis at the crowd one night. So the fans started the match chanting “Po-wer Ran-gers” and ended the match with a standing ovation. The “unknown” talents were basically counted on to get themselves over (and fast) with a demanding crowd. I could see the build taking a very “You know these guys? Great, buckle up. Never heard of them? Well, they’re going to show you what’s what in the ring” approach. It would appear that this is what they are going with in the main, at least so far. Just the assumption the audience knows, and if they dont, oh well, sucks to be you, just enjoy the match anyway. I'm not sure I can enjoy matches cold like that, but fingers crossed. At least it seems we're going to see people weekly, so people wont be complete unknowns by the time we get to the event, even if their history is just assumed to be known.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 12, 2022 12:38:26 GMT -5
Nobody wants to admit it but... Casual fans don't give a f*** about this New Japan PPV.
Absolutely no fan who's never watched wrestling before is going to be intrigued or interested by this.
It's the biggest problem AEW has. They're catering to a niche. Yeah, it's great for the smarks and pure wrestling fans who care about work rate and 5 star matches and stuff... But if they want to truly compete with WWE and cause another boom period, they're going completely the wrong way about it. You know what their most talked about moments were? Shaq, Mike Tyson, Masvidal, etc. It wasn't Kojima or Suzuki fighting Moxley. To the casual fan, they're just thinking "Who's this old guy?"
And I say this as somebody who likes AEW and wants it to succeed massively.
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Post by polarbearpete on Jun 12, 2022 12:46:01 GMT -5
Nobody wants to admit it but... Casual fans don't give a f*** about this New Japan PPV. Absolutely no fan who's never watched wrestling before is going to be intrigued or interested by this. It's the biggest problem AEW has. They're catering to a niche. Yeah, it's great for the smarks and pure wrestling fans who care about work rate and 5 star matches and stuff... But if they want to truly compete with WWE and cause another boom period, they're going completely the wrong way about it. You know what their most talked about moments were? Shaq, Mike Tyson, Masvidal, etc. It wasn't Kojima or Suzuki fighting Moxley. To the casual fan, they're just thinking "Who's this old guy?" And I say this as somebody who likes AEW and wants it to succeed massively. I don’t think someone who’s never watched wrestling before is going to buy any wrestling PPV, be it WWE or AEW. Now you may be on to something with non-AEW wrestling fans not being drawn into this New Japan PPV, but that’s different than thinking you’re going to get people who don’t watch wrestling to order any of your shows.
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Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]
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Post by Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] on Jun 12, 2022 14:46:00 GMT -5
Nobody wants to admit it but... Casual fans don't give a f*** about this New Japan PPV. Absolutely no fan who's never watched wrestling before is going to be intrigued or interested by this. It's the biggest problem AEW has. They're catering to a niche. Yeah, it's great for the smarks and pure wrestling fans who care about work rate and 5 star matches and stuff... But if they want to truly compete with WWE and cause another boom period, they're going completely the wrong way about it. You know what their most talked about moments were? Shaq, Mike Tyson, Masvidal, etc. It wasn't Kojima or Suzuki fighting Moxley. To the casual fan, they're just thinking "Who's this old guy?" And I say this as somebody who likes AEW and wants it to succeed massively. They sold out one of the bigger Arena's in the US with NO CARD ANNOUNCED, including when they added extra seats to it. I'm so f***ing tired of this "BUT THE CASUAL FANS, IT'S TOO NICHE" who f***ing gives a shit if it is or isn't? They sold out a huge gate, and until you actually see the Buyrate, I don't know how you can just sit there and say "This is such a mistake from AEW" when they already sold out the f***ing United Center with the show. It's essentially one of the biggest gates AEW has ever done, and we have to have arguments about "The niche" and "The casual fan", it's migraine inducing tbh. And they don't need to compete with WWE, they just need to do unique stuff and keep doing what they're doing, and they are.
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Moppy
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Post by Moppy on Jun 12, 2022 14:58:00 GMT -5
Nobody wants to admit it but... Casual fans don't give a f*** about this New Japan PPV. Absolutely no fan who's never watched wrestling before is going to be intrigued or interested by this. It's the biggest problem AEW has. They're catering to a niche. Yeah, it's great for the smarks and pure wrestling fans who care about work rate and 5 star matches and stuff... But if they want to truly compete with WWE and cause another boom period, they're going completely the wrong way about it. You know what their most talked about moments were? Shaq, Mike Tyson, Masvidal, etc. It wasn't Kojima or Suzuki fighting Moxley. To the casual fan, they're just thinking "Who's this old guy?" And I say this as somebody who likes AEW and wants it to succeed massively. They sold out one of the bigger Arena's in the US with NO CARD ANNOUNCED, including when they added extra seats to it. I'm so f***ing tired of this "BUT THE CASUAL FANS, IT'S TOO NICHE" who f***ing gives a shit if it is or isn't? They sold out a huge gate, and until you actually see the Buyrate, I don't know how you can just sit there and say "This is such a mistake from AEW" when they already sold out the f***ing United Center with the show. It's essentially one of the biggest gates AEW has ever done, and we have to have arguments about "The niche" and "The casual fan", it's migraine inducing tbh. And they don't need to compete with WWE, they just need to do unique stuff and keep doing what they're doing, and they are. Yeah, like... maybe they're just trying to put on a big, unique show and sell a pay-per-view? Bizarre line of thinking that just because a wrestling company's doing something that won't make them as big as Austin-Mcmahon in '98 then it's not worth doing.
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Post by lockedontarget on Jun 12, 2022 15:50:34 GMT -5
I’m so sick of the idea that they should be chasing big mainstream success above all else.
I care way more about the show being good.
As long as AEW is successful enough to make money and stay in business, I’d rather they focus on having good wrestling.
There’s nothing wrong with catering to your actual fans. There’s nothing wrong with being niche.
You don’t have to be a Call of Duty, you can be a Persona.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 12, 2022 15:55:43 GMT -5
Anytime someone says "new boom period" in a non-joking/sarcastic manner, Mick Foley should appear behind them and give them a wedgie.
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Post by Baldobomb-22-OH-MAN!!! on Jun 12, 2022 15:59:01 GMT -5
Casual fans don't exist anymore and it's time we stopped pretending they did. Nobody is magically tuning into WWE or AEW while channel surfing and going "hey I think I'll stick around"
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Post by Instant Classic on Jun 12, 2022 17:17:50 GMT -5
I’ve told myself I’m going to buy every AEW PPV now, but I’m not getting this one cause honestly I don’t care for NJPW besides reading headlines.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 12, 2022 17:57:09 GMT -5
I watch AEW because it appeals to a niche that I'm a part of that wasn't adequately serviced by WWE. It validated that something more like ROH or New Japan could work in the American mainstream and could sell out larger arenas, get hundreds of thousands in ppv buys, and, including dvr, regularly gets over a million viewers for its flagship show.
Why would I want it to be more like WWE and aim to appeal to these mythical "casual viewers" when doing what it's doing works fine? If I wanted that, I'd watch WWE instead.
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Post by Ronny Rayguns Is All Elite on Jun 12, 2022 18:17:30 GMT -5
Dumb question, but is this PPV going to actually be available in Japan?
If so between whatever portion of the AEW fanbase buys it along with whoever buys it in Jaoan and the live audience they should stand to make money from this
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Fade
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Post by Fade on Jun 12, 2022 18:24:01 GMT -5
Guess this is as good a time to bring it up as the conversation has steered that way; I have two anecdotal experiences with two wrestling fans out on the wild that made me think.
One was a mom somewhere in her 30s. She was a huge fan, even got her MMA enthusiast husband into it. She brought up AEW and said “oh yeah, but they’re more hardcore and stuff right? So we don’t let our child watch it”. Their kid was probably 5ish and a girl. They were HUGE Ronda Rousey marks.
The second was an older mom somewhere in her 40s. My trainer at work actually. She asked what I was into, I said wrestling and she brings up that her and her 11 year old son are huge fans. He just bought the ultimate Batista action figure with his own money and everything. AEW comes up, I mention I’m a huge fan, she responds with “Yeah, with AEW my son just tells me “Mom, I just can’t get into it”. That gut me like a knife.
These are just two little anecdotes but I did bring up months ago how AEW should try to cater more towards children, the youth, the masses, etc..
It’s not going to happen and I’m not necessarily sure it’s the wrong option. AEW lives and breathes by its audience. They’re rabid (usually in a good way) and passionate about the product. AEW makes sure it remains in good standing with said audience. Especially in comparison with WWE. Therefore, as others have brought up, why change amidst current success?
The way this connects with everything is AEW’s accessibility and how little or far they go about it. As far as NJPW, I’ve been in and out of the product myself for a bit but I think they’ve done alright. People expecting it to be over the top, or NJPW explained to casuals… not gonna happen. WWE does that. AEW doesn’t.
I mentioned in the stadium thread that a huge NJPW/AEW supershow could come close to selling if done right. I still believe that. I expect the PPV to sell really well. I’d be shocked if it didn’t. And I’m personally excited cause of the few years I was really into NJPW.
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Dub H
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Post by Dub H on Jun 12, 2022 18:24:26 GMT -5
Dumb question, but is this PPV going to actually be available in Japan? If so between whatever portion of the AEW fanbase buys it along with whoever buys it in Jaoan and the live audience they should stand to make money from this I ASSUME its gonna be on NJPW World.
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