Dave Meltzer gives five stars to Cody Rhodes vs Seth Rollins

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jun 10, 2022 16:21:21 GMT -5 Mid-Carder said:

Jun 10, 2022 16:19:59 GMT -5 "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik said:

I was there live and I'd agree with that. 

Did they show a different match in the arena or something?

I feel like we were just discussing in the other board about selective tastes and opinions and how it's ok for posters to have those opinions without being dogged on.

Not everyone thought the Hardys/Bucks match sucked, and given the state of the Hardy's, the Bucks pulled it out of them to have a match that entertained, there's merit to that rating. People don't give The Young Bucks the credit they deserve imo, they get labeled "Spotfest" wrestlers when a lot of the matches I've seen them do are really well planned out, some tropes here and there, but there's a reason they're regarded as one of the best tag teams in the world by a lot of people.

That being said, Dave Meltzer is one dude, with one rating he himself bestows. It's not that serious, and if hate for The Bucks is overblown, then the hate/loathing for Meltzer is planet sized in how ridiculous I've seen it get tbh.

[Raw is Doodie101]

Jun 10, 2022 16:26:30 GMT -5 Error said:

Jun 10, 2022 15:48:33 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

Call me what you want. He has an anti-WWE bias in his match rankings. WWE going 11 years without a 5-star match is ridiculous when the 2010s was the best in-ring product the company has ever produced. I stand by what I said.

Also, I never said he was anti-WWE overall. I am talking just about his match ranking system.

Or, get this, he has a style of match he likes and WWE doesn't play to that style. They don't have to just like he doesn't have to accept that as the end all be all of wrestling. That is no different that any other fan except a certain level of mark has to find a way to bitch over and manipulate it to fit their agenda.

I don't like most lucha and wouldn't rate it great if I cared enough to make a job out of it, would I need to change my opinion to be fair to lucha fans or are they smart enough to realize it's just not my thing 95% of time and look for opinions on it from people who do like it? Because I'm seeing people being pissed off a person doesn't share their love of WWE style and wanting things to change because it and that is kinda bullshit.

I would be totally fine with what you just said if he didn't say "Star ratings have nothing to do with my taste. Sorry, I've hated matches I've given big ratings to, including this week" just last month.

Like if he's supposed to be independent of bias(which isn't) and he will rank matches that he doesn't like, then his WWE rankings make no sense and represent clear favoritism in how he views things across the industry. Which is fine. As I said, I don't really care about his opinions. But Dave doesn't present himself as someone who just has opinions. He presents himself as someone who goes above his own tastes and will recognize wrestling that he doesn't agree with.

Also, nobody in this thread is acting like he needs to change his ranking system. He can have his viewpoint and not change it. But people have the right to say how flawed and asinine some of these rankings are.

[Cyno]

Everyone has their biases and anyone claiming their opinion to be objective on a purely subjective matter is full of it.

That said, I think the person complaining about Meltzer's numerous four star+ ratings for WWE matches because they weren't a mythical 5 star is way more guilty of an obvious bias than Meltzer himself is.

[Mozenrath]

Jun 10, 2022 16:49:47 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Everyone has their biases and anyone claiming their opinion to be objective on a purely subjective matter is full of it.

That said, I think the person complaining about Meltzer's numerous four star+ ratings for WWE matches because they weren't a mythical 5 star is way more guilty of an obvious bias than Meltzer himself is.

Reminds me of how Adam Sessler, despite having had to do them for X-Play and its progenitors, used to talk about how he actually hated numerical ratings, especially how people got wound up about them. I think he said something like, "What is the quantitative difference between a 9.7 and a 9.8?", that a good game was good, a great game was great, etc, and that a good review lets you make an informed buying choices with your time and money.

[Cyno]

Jun 10, 2022 17:10:53 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Jun 10, 2022 16:49:47 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Everyone has their biases and anyone claiming their opinion to be objective on a purely subjective matter is full of it.

That said, I think the person complaining about Meltzer's numerous four star+ ratings for WWE matches because they weren't a mythical 5 star is way more guilty of an obvious bias than Meltzer himself is.

Reminds me of how Adam Sessler, despite having had to do them for X-Play and its progenitors, used to talk about how he actually hated numerical ratings, especially how people got wound up about them. I think he said something like, "What is the quantitative difference between a 9.7 and a 9.8?", that a good game was good, a great game was great, etc, and that a good review lets you make an informed buying choices with your time and money.

The Gamers™ are the one group of people who get more bent out of shape about positive reviews not being positive enough than wrestling fans do.

[Mozenrath]

Jun 10, 2022 17:15:22 GMT -5 Cyno said:

Jun 10, 2022 17:10:53 GMT -5 Mozenrath said:

Reminds me of how Adam Sessler, despite having had to do them for X-Play and its progenitors, used to talk about how he actually hated numerical ratings, especially how people got wound up about them. I think he said something like, "What is the quantitative difference between a 9.7 and a 9.8?", that a good game was good, a great game was great, etc, and that a good review lets you make an informed buying choices with your time and money.

The Gamers™ are the one group of people who get more bent out of shape about positive reviews not being positive enough than wrestling fans do.

Yeah, that was the main reason he got into the topic, it was after one of the many times people lost their shit about IGN or some other big gaming site not giving a big tent pole release a high-enough number for them, probably some console warrior shit.

On the topic on hand, I kind of suspected this would be what finally got WWE another 5. Seth and Cody had a pretty insane spectacle of a match, and sometimes, that does the job, sort of like how Cody's first five was his insanely bloody match with Dustin.

[Nosnorb]

Jun 10, 2022 15:30:33 GMT -5 tagteammatchplaya said:

Jun 10, 2022 15:27:38 GMT -5 @dax said:

What'd you give Madcap Moss vs. Drew McIntyre at Day 1?

1 star, how could they make Madcap Moss Lose, only has 1 star because we got see Madcap Moss wrestle

On that day, the performance of his neck muscles is easily worthy of 5 stars

[thehottag]

Jun 10, 2022 13:53:57 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

I don't care about Meltzer's opinions.

I mean, you clearly do. And that's fine - we all care to some degree about wrestling, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it. But don't say "I don't care about Meltzer's opinions" & then, IN THE EXACT SAME PARAGRAPH, bitch about what star rating he gave a tag match.

[Raw is Doodie101]

Jun 10, 2022 17:35:59 GMT -5 thehottag said:

Jun 10, 2022 13:53:57 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

I don't care about Meltzer's opinions.

I mean, you clearly do. And that's fine - we all care to some degree about wrestling, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it. But don't say "I don't care about Meltzer's opinions" & then, IN THE EXACT SAME PARAGRAPH, bitch about what star rating he gave a tag match.

It's called giving context about why I don't care about something. I didn't just wake up one day not giving a f***. I was giving an example of why I don't care about his ratings. It's like me saying I don't care for Dominoes and saying that I didn't like the cheese pizza. You wouldn't say "oh you bitched about the pizza, that means you care. Like, come on now.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jun 10, 2022 17:40:23 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

Jun 10, 2022 17:35:59 GMT -5 thehottag said:

I mean, you clearly do. And that's fine - we all care to some degree about wrestling, otherwise we wouldn't be here discussing it. But don't say "I don't care about Meltzer's opinions" & then, IN THE EXACT SAME PARAGRAPH, bitch about what star rating he gave a tag match.

It's called giving context about why I don't care about something. I didn't just wake up one day not giving a f***. I was giving an example of why I don't care about his ratings. It's like me saying I don't care for Dominoes and saying that I didn't like the cheese pizza. You wouldn't say "oh you bitched about the pizza, that means you care. Like, come on now.

But actively disliking something and making multiple posts about why something sucks is in fact, you as a human being, putting an amount of care into that thing to express it.

You have to actively defend your hatred and seeming uncare for Dave in multiple posts, if you didn't give a shit about Meltzer or his star ratings, you would have left this thread long ago, instead of tacking stuff on like "Lol did you see he gave Hardys/Bucks FOUR stars?", like the fact you know that alone means you do in fact, give some sort of a shit about Meltzer is doing and are investing a little bit of time in seeing how he ranks other matches and putting stock into mocking those rankings. "I have a right to say how flawed an asinine these rankings are!", yeah you do... but that also means you care enough to do it.

Not caring about something is basically not giving stock into anything Meltzer does, and says. Potshotting Meltzer for his takes, is caring about what he does, even if you boast about how you don't give a f***.

It's not necessarily a big deal, but as others have said, you're trying to back off and say "Woah woah, I DON'T care about Meltzer's ratings" when this thread is very evident that you do, and find him bias.

[Deleted]

Beyond any tedious debates about whether Meltzer has an anti-WWE bias (he doesn't), I'm just wondering how Cody/Seth got 5 stars but the one Ibushi/Naito match from a couple years ago got no rating because Meltzer felt it was setting a bad example for other wrestlers. Surely wrestling for 20+ minutes with a completely torn pec sets just as bad a precedent as increasingly-dangerous head drops?

[Clash, Never a Meter Maid]

I mean, Dave didn’t give Bushwackers and Men On A Mission vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, Bastion Booger and the Headshrinkers ***** like it rightfully deserved. You don’t need to convince me he’s a dumbass.

[Legion]

I can see why, but personally, he shouldnt have.

Cody's attitude shouldnt be encouraged.

The next person who works injured could make it so they can never come back. Or worse, than someone else cant.

[Raw is Doodie101]

Jun 10, 2022 17:46:51 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

Jun 10, 2022 17:40:23 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

It's called giving context about why I don't care about something. I didn't just wake up one day not giving a f***. I was giving an example of why I don't care about his ratings. It's like me saying I don't care for Dominoes and saying that I didn't like the cheese pizza. You wouldn't say "oh you bitched about the pizza, that means you care. Like, come on now.

But actively disliking something and making multiple posts about why something sucks is in fact, you as a human being, putting an amount of care into that thing to express it.

You have to actively defend your hatred and seeming uncare for Dave in multiple posts, if you didn't give a shit about Meltzer or his star ratings, you would have left this thread long ago, instead of tacking stuff on like "Lol did you see he gave Hardys/Bucks FOUR stars?", like the fact you know that alone means you do in fact, give some sort of a shit about Meltzer is doing and are investing a little bit of time in seeing how he ranks other matches and putting stock into mocking those rankings.

Not caring about something is basically not giving stock into anything Meltzer does, and says. Potshotting Meltzer for his takes, is caring about what he does, even if you boast about how you don't give a f***.

It's not necessarily a big deal, but as others have said, you're trying to back off and say "Woah woah, I DON'T care about Meltzer's ratings" when this thread is very evident that you do, and find him bias.

I don't hate Dave. Never said I have hate for him. I literally was defending my argument to people who disagreed with me. I didn't post to anything else in this thread except to respond to people responding to me. The YB/Hardy's thing was in my original comment. Someone asked if he did that, and I responded to that with the affirmative.

I will admit that I care to respond to people who disagree with me so we can have a good discussion. That's why I've stayed in the thread.

[Jumpin' Jesse Walsh]

Jun 10, 2022 17:52:33 GMT -5 Clash, Never a Meter Maid said:

I mean, Dave didn’t give Bushwackers and Men On A Mission vs. Bam Bam Bigelow, Bastion Booger and the Headshrinkers ***** like it rightfully deserved. You don’t need to convince me he’s a dumbass.

This is the correct take.

[Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-]]

Jun 10, 2022 17:54:26 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

Jun 10, 2022 17:46:51 GMT -5 Xxcjb01xX [PIECE OF: SH-] said:

But actively disliking something and making multiple posts about why something sucks is in fact, you as a human being, putting an amount of care into that thing to express it.

You have to actively defend your hatred and seeming uncare for Dave in multiple posts, if you didn't give a shit about Meltzer or his star ratings, you would have left this thread long ago, instead of tacking stuff on like "Lol did you see he gave Hardys/Bucks FOUR stars?", like the fact you know that alone means you do in fact, give some sort of a shit about Meltzer is doing and are investing a little bit of time in seeing how he ranks other matches and putting stock into mocking those rankings.

Not caring about something is basically not giving stock into anything Meltzer does, and says. Potshotting Meltzer for his takes, is caring about what he does, even if you boast about how you don't give a f***.

It's not necessarily a big deal, but as others have said, you're trying to back off and say "Woah woah, I DON'T care about Meltzer's ratings" when this thread is very evident that you do, and find him bias.

I don't hate Dave. Never said I have hate for him. I literally was defending my argument to people who disagreed with me. I didn't post to anything else in this thread except to respond to people responding to me. The YB/Hardy's thing was in my original comment. Someone asked if he did that, and I responded to that with the affirmative.

I will admit that I care to respond to people who disagree with me so we can have a good discussion. That's why I've stayed in the thread.

I can relate to that, I wasn't saying this to be negative either, like I do this too, a lot, and I also care enough to respond if I see the need to

I was only saying there has to be some amount of care about Meltzer to defend the points imo, not to say you're toxic about Meltzer or anything at all, I've seen that, it's not pretty. I was more arguing not caring about Meltzer I feel wouldn't lead to some of the responses you've had, which are a definite stance on Meltzer, not so much uncaring about what he does.

[Super Duper Dragunov]

Was Cody courageous and/or dumb (depending on your perspective) for doing the match? Yes.

But was the match itself a five star match? Not at all.

It was a fine match. I get how Cody's torn pec played into a lot of people's opinions on the match, and both men did a good job working with and around the injury, and it definitely added drama, and I love run on sentences, but it wasn't a five star match.

[Jindrak Mark]

Jun 10, 2022 18:57:15 GMT -5 Super Duper Dragunov said:

Was Cody courageous and/or dumb (depending on your perspective) for doing the match? Yes.

But was the match itself a five star match? Not at all.

It was a fine match. I get how Cody's torn pec played into a lot of people's opinions on the match, and both men did a good job working with and around the injury, and it definitely added drama, and I love run on sentences, but it wasn't a five star match.

It was good but it's arguably not even a top 3 HIAC of the past 5 years. I'd rate Becky/Sasha, New Day/Usos, Edge/Rollins and Roman/Jey higher.

[Super Duper Dragunov]

Jun 10, 2022 19:09:32 GMT -5 Jindrak Mark said:

Jun 10, 2022 18:57:15 GMT -5 Super Duper Dragunov said:

Was Cody courageous and/or dumb (depending on your perspective) for doing the match? Yes.

But was the match itself a five star match? Not at all.

It was a fine match. I get how Cody's torn pec played into a lot of people's opinions on the match, and both men did a good job working with and around the injury, and it definitely added drama, and I love run on sentences, but it wasn't a five star match.

It was good but it's arguably not even a top 3 HIAC of the past 5 years. I'd rate Becky/Sasha, New Day/Usos, Edge/Rollins and Roman/Jey higher.

I would 100% agree with all of those.

[GodzillaIsMyMonster]

Jun 10, 2022 13:53:57 GMT -5 Raw is Doodie101 said:

I don't care about Meltzer's opinions. He has a clear anti-WWE bias when it comes to his rankings. He's just a dude who has an opinion, I get that. But his opinion has had a negative impact on how wrestlers view building a match. I absolutely hate the Young Bucks spot fest style of matchmaking but they get a 4-star match anytime they step in the ring. The fact that the terrible Young Bucks vs The Hardy's match from DON got 4 stars is a freaking joke.

That match, and IMO, that whole PPV, was trash. But so many matches got high rankings.

I hate that Dave's opinions hold such weight.