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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 11, 2022 12:17:24 GMT -5
Anything to do with him being slow to accept non-WWE creations. InVasion of course. I feel that the waste of NXTers falls under the same.
Somehow it wasn't as glaring when business was good (Red Rooster, Tazz...)
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ghost
Don Corleone
Posts: 1,767
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Post by ghost on Jun 11, 2022 12:18:06 GMT -5
The Invasion wouldn’t have worked even if Vince waited for the big names. Vince had absolutely no intention of making WCW look good, and guys like Taker would have thrown the “they took food off our table” BS and probably had the locker room against it too.
Money potential was huge but I don’t think Vince would have done it right regardless.
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Post by James Fabiano on Jun 11, 2022 12:23:11 GMT -5
The Invasion wouldn’t have worked even if Vince waited for the big names. Vince had absolutely no intention of making WCW look good, and guys like Taker would have thrown the “they took food off our table” BS and probably had the locker room against it too. Money potential was huge but I don’t think Vince would have done it right regardless. Well yeah. Look at how sone of the big names were treated. I mean granted, Hall, Nash and Steiner were no spring chickens/weren't working at their best for various reasons, but...yeah. Goldberg was pushed better 17 years after the fact. In 2003, he was another lame duck champion for Triple H to conquer.
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The Ichi
Patti Mayonnaise
AGGRESSIVE Executive Janitor of the Third Floor Manager's Bathroom
Posts: 37,304
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Post by The Ichi on Jun 11, 2022 12:48:48 GMT -5
The Invasion is why I laughed and laughed a little while ago when some were adamant that WWE potentially working with NJPW would have been done justice. The Invasion was back when Vince had some semblance of common sense, and look what he did to it.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 11, 2022 14:36:41 GMT -5
All of Vince's biggest business f*** ups came from when he tried to prove he was more than the wrestling guy. WBF, ICOPRO, both incarnations of the XFL (granted the pandemic hastened the inevitable with 2.0 but i don't think it would've succeeded). The worst business screw ups of WWE pale in comparison. I get being so successful in one business, he wants to branch out but darn he failed in everything non wrestling he did. He's not content to be known as the most successful wrestling promoter of all time, he HAS to branch out in multiple areas he became a failure in. A former employee of his owns one of those businesses/companies. Now THAT person is a success that Vince could never be! When he dies, he will be known as the best wrestling promoter but definitely not for anything good with WBF, XFL, movies and other ventures.
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Post by Jindrak Mark on Jun 11, 2022 14:58:03 GMT -5
The Invasion wouldn’t have worked even if Vince waited for the big names. Vince had absolutely no intention of making WCW look good, and guys like Taker would have thrown the “they took food off our table” BS and probably had the locker room against it too. Money potential was huge but I don’t think Vince would have done it right regardless. That's the thing, even booked poorly it would still have done great business with all the proper big names. The invasion angle booking in June/July 2001 was diabolically bad and they still had one of the biggest PPV buyrates ever. Even Survivor Series months later for the blowoff match. You’d think with how terribly the whole thing had been done all interest would be gone but nope, biggest Survivor Series buyrate ever. Imagine how much even bigger the numbers would have been with Goldberg, Hogan and the others. Roman Reigns v John Cena last year is a similar example. Look at the way that was booked. It was nonsensical. At one point they removed Cena from the match for a week or two and made you doubt it was even happening. It should have been the simplest thing in the world to book but they went about it in the worst way possible. At the end of the day though it was still Roman Reigns v John Cena. It was a massive match and drew great, selling a bunch of extra tickets, ending up with around 45-50,000 packed in the stadium even in the middle of a pandemic for a non-Wrestlemania show. I think the invasion would have been the same. Even if Vince booked it terribly, all the big name matches would have drawn great simply because the idea of WWF v WCW was so big.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 15:01:12 GMT -5
His passion has led to his spite and vengeance so honestly, his love for what he believes may be his biggest downfall.
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,511
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jun 11, 2022 15:31:06 GMT -5
Roman Reigns.
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Post by CubsFan71 on Jun 11, 2022 15:32:27 GMT -5
Hiring Nick Khan. Seriously
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 2,865
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Post by tirtefaa on Jun 11, 2022 15:44:14 GMT -5
The Invasion wouldn’t have worked even if Vince waited for the big names. Vince had absolutely no intention of making WCW look good, and guys like Taker would have thrown the “they took food off our table” BS and probably had the locker room against it too. I don't get this. Vince had an absolute stranglehold on wrestling at this point...what would the options of the other wrestlers be? To walk out? Okay, then that's just affecting their paydays. They were under contract, and even if they weren't, where were they going to go? At the end of the day, Vince could have done whatever he wanted.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,161
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 11, 2022 15:56:20 GMT -5
All of Vince's biggest business f*** ups came from when he tried to prove he was more than the wrestling guy. WBF, ICOPRO, both incarnations of the XFL (granted the pandemic hastened the inevitable with 2.0 but i don't think it would've succeeded). The worst business screw ups of WWE pale in comparison. The Ratings were already in a downfall as the pandemic hit. But its the perfect cover to why it failed. The sad part is that the product itself wasn't horrible this time around. Cue (and Queue) the 1000 "Haha, yes it was, you idiot, stop kissing Vince's ass!" replies...
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Bo Rida
Fry's dog Seymour
Pulled one over on everyone. Got away with it, this time.
Posts: 23,584
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Post by Bo Rida on Jun 11, 2022 17:21:52 GMT -5
A left field one is not caring the videogames have been disappointing to crap for 15+ years. Sort of combined with an on-screen product without the mass market appeal. Imagine attitude era cultural relevance, today's videogame market (traditional and f2p) and stumbling into a big hit. Would dwarf the Saudi deal. Hiring Nick Khan. Seriously He's done wonders for short-term profits at the expense of potentially doing serious long-term harm. Business types only seem to care about short-term growth but as I've never understood that I'd agree.
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Post by Cyno on Jun 11, 2022 17:37:00 GMT -5
For a WWE-related one, running an angle that Donald Trump was really going to buy Raw to the point of making a phony press release for it. They worked themselves into a shoot (brother), and Wall Street thought it was legit, causing WWE's stock to plummet for a bit.
Was it a catastrophic mistake? No, but it was a pretty funny one.
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Post by eJm on Jun 11, 2022 17:38:36 GMT -5
The Invasion wouldn’t have worked even if Vince waited for the big names. Vince had absolutely no intention of making WCW look good, and guys like Taker would have thrown the “they took food off our table” BS and probably had the locker room against it too. Money potential was huge but I don’t think Vince would have done it right regardless. That's the thing, even booked poorly it would still have done great business with all the proper big names. The invasion angle booking in June/July 2001 was diabolically bad and they still had one of the biggest PPV buyrates ever. Even Survivor Series months later for the blowoff match. You’d think with how terribly the whole thing had been done all interest would be gone but nope, biggest Survivor Series buyrate ever. Imagine how much even bigger the numbers would have been with Goldberg, Hogan and the others. Roman Reigns v John Cena last year is a similar example. Look at the way that was booked. It was nonsensical. At one point they removed Cena from the match for a week or two and made you doubt it was even happening. It should have been the simplest thing in the world to book but they went about it in the worst way possible. At the end of the day though it was still Roman Reigns v John Cena. It was a massive match and drew great, selling a bunch of extra tickets, ending up with around 45-50,000 packed in the stadium even in the middle of a pandemic for a non-Wrestlemania show. I think the invasion would have been the same. Even if Vince booked it terribly, all the big name matches would have drawn great simply because the idea of WWF v WCW was so big. Like, one of the biggest matches of that InVasion PPV was Earl Hebner vs. Nick Patrick. And it still drew one of the highest buyrates in history. You put a bit more time and effort into putting the right guys with the right opponents and I’d think the only thing that could dwarf the number the buyrate would get would be the first or second Rock/Cena match.
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Post by jason1980s on Jun 11, 2022 18:05:39 GMT -5
For a WWE-related one, running an angle that Donald Trump was really going to buy Raw to the point of making a phony press release for it. They worked themselves into a shoot (brother), and Wall Street thought it was legit, causing WWE's stock to plummet for a bit. Was it a catastrophic mistake? No, but it was a pretty funny one. I'm shocked we got to this many pages and this has not been mentioned. I thought it was awful at the time and still do. But I'm sure they both thought it would lead to big business, the egos of both men. Someone in power on wall street or in stocks should have come down hard on both guys getting involved with that garbage storyline. But no worries, it led to WWE wasting so much money on dozens of "celebrities" who gave no darns about wrestling, probably looked down on wrestling.
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Renslayer
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
every time i come around your city...
Posts: 16,618
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Post by Renslayer on Jun 11, 2022 18:13:43 GMT -5
The XFL wiping out the profit WWF made during 2000-2001 seems like a big one. Or the steroid trial. XFL felt so useless. Like, what was the reason?!?!?!?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jun 11, 2022 19:32:39 GMT -5
This. Even without the major WCW stars Invasion had a huge buyrate for a non Mania. If he had stood up to his wrestlers and hired some of the big guys he could have made an insane amount of money. Even if he didnt hire the big guys the Invasion buyrate proves the audience could have been convinced to accept the WCW guys as a big deal if they were treated as such. This is really revisionist. Who could he bring in? Kevin Nash? One of the main reasons WCW died (behind the scenes). Had a guaranteed contract with TimeWarner until the end of 2001 that was higher than anyone in the WWF locker room, and had no intention of letting go of it, and if he signed for anyone, he lost it. When he did sign, he was too injured to wrestle at first. While he was rehabbing, he injured his bicep. Finally, five months after his on-screen return, he tore his quad walking to the centre of the ring after taking a tag, finally executing his first wrestling move in a ring fourteen months after his on screen return. Not an option. Scott Hall? Fired in under 90 days after the plane ride from hell, was the last in a series of final straws on that European tour. Only made it to Wrestlemania because he was paired with Austin and there was no alternative opponent (Benoit was pencilled in, but not recovered from injury in time). Austin being paired with him at Wrestlemania caused Austin to walk out the first time. At the time, only worth anything at the box office with Nash. Not an option. Scott Steiner? Not medically cleared. Had one atrocious match for the ill-fated WWA in Australia. And by the time he signed, just not up to the in-ring quality of the WWF anymore. Not an option. Bill Goldberg? No passion for the business. Like Nash, he had a huge guaranteed contract with TimeWarner until 2003. TimeWarner eventually paid it up, and McMahon spent months negotiating. And Goldberg didn't want to go on the road, just to TV and PPV only (a huge factor in the fall of WCW was the stars not doing house shows, and also caused a major dip in business in WWE in 2003). Not an option. Sting? The year he spent in the rafters killed his interest in wrestling and he wanted to be a movie star. Another guaranteed contract (March 2002) that he didn't want to waive. Had zero interest in signing for McMahon, as he didn't want to work a schedule, and he didn't like the sexual content. Did two short tours, but only wrestled 19 times in the five years after WCW folded. Not an option. Ric Flair? Was already 52. Like Nash, Goldberg and Sting, he had a guaranteed contract, but settled his early to sign. He would have been a better mouthpiece, but people just didn't want to see him as a heel (something else that screwed WCW, and WWE in 2003), and could have more than carried his weight in a tag match, but not as a regular singles competitor. Hulk Hogan? Had initially refused to sign because of his lawsuit against WCW/Russo over the Bash at the Beach work/shoot. A one-PPV nostalgia pop wonder. After his Wrestlemania match with the Rock, Vince puts the title on him at Backlash, and the buyrate isn't great, Judgment Day where he loses the title is worse. Use him at Invasion, and you waste that one buyrate. Save him for Summerslam or the final showdown at Survivor Series. But a several month long program? No. They both knew it though. Hence had him putting over Angle and Lesnar, before Hogan threw his toys out of the pram, because McMahpn wanted him to put Lesnar over again. Came back a few months later for another nostalgia pop, and the short lived Mr America storyline which he quit before the payoff for "creative" reasons (ie, he had to job too often, and someone else got the spotlight). Eric Bischoff? McMahon tried to sign him, but Bischoff turned him down. Tried to start up a company called MatRats, which never got off the ground. Don't get me wrong, the Invasion was screwed up, but not because of who wasn't signed. It was screwed up because of how they treated who they did sign. DDP and especially Booker T should have been positioned as bigger threats than they were. Jericho could have been added to the Alliance side as a third threat (Benoit was injured), and RVD could have been elevated (although he wasn't making friends by potatoing opponents left right and centre). But DDP was already 45, and the top WWE guys were in the prime of their careers. Undertaker was the oldest main eventer at the age of 38, and was older than all the WCW main eventers. Booker was the only WCW main eventer under 40, and he's slightly older than Taker. Even with all that, the main reason the Invasion failed was that McMahon's ego got in the way (much like Jim Crockett's did when JCP bought out the UWF), and he had to present his guys as better than the failed opposition in every way. I've always thought it wasn't so much that he should have brought them in, but that he should of waited. Besides Sting, everyone you mentioned was a major player in WWE within 5 years.
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Post by Feyrhausen on Jun 11, 2022 20:02:27 GMT -5
The Invasion wouldn’t have worked even if Vince waited for the big names. Vince had absolutely no intention of making WCW look good, and guys like Taker would have thrown the “they took food off our table” BS and probably had the locker room against it too. I don't get this. Vince had an absolute stranglehold on wrestling at this point...what would the options of the other wrestlers be? To walk out? Okay, then that's just affecting their paydays. They were under contract, and even if they weren't, where were they going to go? At the end of the day, Vince could have done whatever he wanted. Plus Taker and the like mainly bullied and trash talked guys like DDP and the younger talent. Guys like Nash and Hall were old buddies. And Hogan and Flair were expert politicians. Taker would have been kissing ass and shaking hands the minute they walked in the door so he could work with them.
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
Home of the 5-time, 5-time, 5-time, 5-time 5-time Super Bowl Champion 49ers-and Wrestlemania 31
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jun 11, 2022 20:21:09 GMT -5
For a WWE-related one, running an angle that Donald Trump was really going to buy Raw to the point of making a phony press release for it. They worked themselves into a shoot (brother), and Wall Street thought it was legit, causing WWE's stock to plummet for a bit. Was it a catastrophic mistake? No, but it was a pretty funny one. It wasn’t the first time either. It happened when he “died” in the limo explosion, and when HHH announced he lost his Chairman of the Board position, it actually triggered an SEC investigation.
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Allie Kitsune
Crow T. Robot
Always Feelin' Foxy.
HaHa U FaLL 4 LaVa TriK
Posts: 46,161
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Post by Allie Kitsune on Jun 11, 2022 20:23:17 GMT -5
For a WWE-related one, running an angle that Donald Trump was really going to buy Raw to the point of making a phony press release for it. They worked themselves into a shoot (brother), and Wall Street thought it was legit, causing WWE's stock to plummet for a bit. Was it a catastrophic mistake? No, but it was a pretty funny one. On a similar note : Putting out an article announcing Vince's death after the Limo Explosion, only to see the stock plummet so rapidly that they had to put out an announcement ASAP saying that he's not really dead, it was just for TV.
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