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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 4, 2022 15:47:37 GMT -5
Every time “WWE NEVER PUSHES NEW YOUNG TALENT” *WWE pushes a new, young talent “UGH WHY IS WWE PUSHING THIS PERSON.” Is today “Ignore wider contexts and counter arguments and just paint people with the same brush” day around here?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 15:49:26 GMT -5
I think MITB could've been a turning point for him because he was actually really over on Saturday night, but we'll see.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jul 4, 2022 15:53:24 GMT -5
Every time “WWE NEVER PUSHES NEW YOUNG TALENT” *WWE pushes a new, young talent “UGH WHY IS WWE PUSHING THIS PERSON.” Is today “Ignore wider contexts and counter arguments and just paint people with the same brush” day around here? not to mention we literally just spent a page talking about this exact statement and how it's bullshit.
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Post by canceled4truth on Jul 4, 2022 16:03:57 GMT -5
That was not in terms of the Money in the Bank. That was in response to when people throw the "you said you wanted them to push someone new" when there is a general push back against who they are pushing. If you've got a roster full of people that the crowd has been begging to get behind and you insist on pushing people the crowd are not behind... you're going to get the response. Like, look, if you want to put MITB on a younger talent, go for it. The problem is, if we’re looking at it from a big stage, only-sees-the-big-4 WWE fan, Theory couldn’t beat a commentator (albeit a former Super Bowl winning commentator but still) and at this very PPV, lost to Bobby Lashley in a dominating affair so…why should people take him seriously as a winner? Because he’s new? That's the point. He didn't earn anything. The literal story is that Vince fell in love with him, despite him being a coward who keeps making a fool out of himself, and he got inserted into the match out of nowhere. Didn't commentary literally mention how he got into the match only because he's Vince's boy? Am I going insane? Is this not the exact reaction WWE wants from people here?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 4, 2022 16:06:44 GMT -5
Like, look, if you want to put MITB on a younger talent, go for it. The problem is, if we’re looking at it from a big stage, only-sees-the-big-4 WWE fan, Theory couldn’t beat a commentator (albeit a former Super Bowl winning commentator but still) and at this very PPV, lost to Bobby Lashley in a dominating affair so…why should people take him seriously as a winner? Because he’s new? That's the point. He didn't earn anything. The literal story is that Vince fell in love with him, despite him being a coward who keeps making a fool out of himself, and he got inserted into the match out of nowhere. Didn't commentary literally mention how he got into the match only because he's Vince's boy? Am I going insane? Is this not the exact reaction WWE wants from people here? But if people aren’t exactly embracing it (even though there are moments where he got a pop but, like, everyone gets one pop in WWE that’s not a standard) then it’s not doing it’s job. He’s just a guy who isn’t able to get the people to care he’s Vince’s chosen one. Especially since, to say it again, nobody who has been Vince’s chosen one lasts a long time because he eventually loses interests and moves on so why should we the audience believe this time it’ll be different? Because an egg was involved? Because Vince beat up a Super Bowl champion as a power play?
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Post by canceled4truth on Jul 4, 2022 16:10:06 GMT -5
That's the point. He didn't earn anything. The literal story is that Vince fell in love with him, despite him being a coward who keeps making a fool out of himself, and he got inserted into the match out of nowhere. Didn't commentary literally mention how he got into the match only because he's Vince's boy? Am I going insane? Is this not the exact reaction WWE wants from people here? But if people aren’t exactly embracing it (even though there are moments where he got a pop but, like, everyone gets one pop in WWE that’s not a standard) then it’s not doing it’s job. He’s just a guy who isn’t able to get the people to care he’s Vince’s chosen one. Especially since, to say it again, nobody who has been Vince’s chosen one lasts a long time because he eventually loses interests and moves on so why should we the audience believe this time it’ll be different? Because an egg was involved? Because Vince beat up a Super Bowl champion as a power play? I'm not sure how you quantify "embracing," but I disagree. He got heat at MITB and he gets heat on Raw pretty much every week. And as for precedent, idk, really. The last angle I can remember like this was McIntyre, and this has already gone on for longer and reacher greater heights.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jul 4, 2022 16:11:06 GMT -5
That's the point. He didn't earn anything. The literal story is that Vince fell in love with him, despite him being a coward who keeps making a fool out of himself, and he got inserted into the match out of nowhere. Didn't commentary literally mention how he got into the match only because he's Vince's boy? Am I going insane? Is this not the exact reaction WWE wants from people here? But if people aren’t exactly embracing it (even though there are moments where he got a pop but, like, everyone gets one pop in WWE that’s not a standard) then it’s not doing it’s job. He’s just a guy who isn’t able to get the people to care he’s Vince’s chosen one. Especially since, to say it again, nobody who has been Vince’s chosen one lasts a long time because he eventually loses interests and moves on so why should we the audience believe this time it’ll be different? Because an egg was involved? Because Vince beat up a Super Bowl champion as a power play? Hell right now they are showing vignettes that basically state that being Vince's chosen one doesn't mean shit...
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 4, 2022 16:22:10 GMT -5
I think I'm just personally numb to the "guy is successful but doesn't deserve it" thing because it has been overdone so much in WWE thanks to the MITB gimmick. We see this every year. Someone undeserving wins a title or the briefcase and all it does for me is devalue the title. It's also been a half assed storyline in this case with Theory. There's no real long term commitment to storytelling here. Theory is Vince's chosen one but Vince also is a face on camera and also he sometimes doesn't give him preferential treatment. And don't get me started on how Pearce as a decision maker has been portrayed in terms of heel/face dynamics. At least with Seth way back, he was clearly the chosen one by the Authority. It was clear and he had a posse and everything. They went all the way with it. But in general, I think to get over as a heel, Theory needs more than selfie guy that Vince kinda likes sometimes. He needs an extra something.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 23,690
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Post by asuka007 on Jul 4, 2022 16:24:18 GMT -5
I’m also just kind of tired of “Vince and/or WWE management pushing their pet projects whether they’re deserving or not” as a storyline in general.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 4, 2022 16:27:40 GMT -5
I think I'm just personally numb to the "guy is successful but doesn't deserve it" thing because it has been overdone so much in WWE thanks to the MITB gimmick. We see this every year. Someone undeserving wins a title or the briefcase and all it does for me is devalue the title. That’s also it, too. Like, maybe it’s because I’ve been a fan for a long ass time but I’ve just seen it all because that’s all they feel capable of doing with some of them. At least with Edge, he was portrayed as someone who took advantage of an opportunity, now everyone does it for MITB and title wins or whatever so it’s less a thing that works for their character and more something that works because Edge and Seth and whoever did it and it worked. It doesn’t allow for creative depth and character work, it’s done to get a pop or get heat and we move on.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 4, 2022 16:33:26 GMT -5
I think I'm just personally numb to the "guy is successful but doesn't deserve it" thing because it has been overdone so much in WWE thanks to the MITB gimmick. We see this every year. Someone undeserving wins a title or the briefcase and all it does for me is devalue the title. That’s also it, too. Like, maybe it’s because I’ve been a fan for a long ass time but I’ve just seen it all because that’s all they feel capable of doing with some of them. At least with Edge, he was portrayed as someone who took advantage of an opportunity, now everyone does it for MITB and title wins or whatever so it’s less a thing that works for their character and more something that works because Edge and Seth and whoever did it and it worked. It doesn’t allow for creative depth and character work, it’s done to get a pop or get heat and we move on. Absolutely. Look at the major main heels over the past few decades in places like WWE and AEW. Guys like Triple H, Orton, Jericho, MJF, Batista, the list goes on. With almost all of them, they often cheated. They were underhanded. They got things they didn't deserve. But they also had two things going for them. They were (for the most part) treated as equals in the ring to their peers. That hasn't happened with Theory so far and it never happened for guys like Owens and Miz so I lack some faith right now. Those heels also had other character traits that gave you another reason to hate them. Triple H had a laundry list of evil deeds to his name. Orton was a psychotic guy who attacked old people. Jericho is a rock star who sees himself as a legend above everyone else. MJF is just an asshole who everyone hates. Batista assaulted his best friend and became a douchebag. The MITB gimmick can work with a character every so often like Edge. But it often doesn't connect like it did for him.
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Post by DrBackflipsHoffman on Jul 4, 2022 16:47:24 GMT -5
Every time “WWE NEVER PUSHES NEW YOUNG TALENT” *WWE pushes a new, young talent “UGH WHY IS WWE PUSHING THIS PERSON.”
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Rican
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
July 17, 2011 - HHHe called it
Posts: 16,734
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Post by Rican on Jul 4, 2022 17:39:54 GMT -5
I can’t get over how dumb it is that he’s just named Theory now.
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Post by Starshine on Jul 4, 2022 18:07:06 GMT -5
I can’t get over how dumb it is that he’s just named Theory now. Riddle, Theory, Madcap Moss? It sounds like this match was full of Batman villains.
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Post by lockedontarget on Jul 4, 2022 18:09:41 GMT -5
Theory is the Scorpio Sky of WWE.
Solid but unspectacular talent who the company sees more in than the fans do.
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Post by darbus alan on Jul 4, 2022 19:01:28 GMT -5
Theory is the Scorpio Sky of WWE. Solid but unspectacular talent who the company sees more in than the fans do. But does Theory also have fun gamer take memes like Scorpio "Web3 is the future of gaming" Sky? The most I can say about Theory is that I liked his sell of Austin's stunner at Wrestlemania.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 4, 2022 19:37:21 GMT -5
its a shame we even have to debate about this dude cause he was quite clearly great in the way, i doubt anyone would debate that for long
theres just nothing to him on the main roster, of course people are going to be upset about it, give this dude SOMETHING and he can likely be great but they're obviously not going to if they haven't already
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Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 4, 2022 20:25:26 GMT -5
As I've said every time it comes up. It's like if you say you are hungry and someone gives you dog food. Then someone responding with "Well you said you wanted FOOD". That is not what the first person meant and everyone knows it. Someone will be complaining whoever it is. If it had been Seth, Drew or Shamus, we'd have a thread about how WWE has wasted it on someone who can get a title shot with one promo because of their history. If it had been Riddle, we'd have the thread about how problematic he is. If it was Moss, we'd have a similar thread to this one about not being ready. If it was Omos, the forum would still be down from the amount of LOL posts. Sami was the only one it made any real sense to give it to, but at the same time, he isn't really a main event level character/presentation, however much he can do it all. And even that would be a waste of the possibility of it being used to elevate someone. Frankly, the whole concept could do with a rest, but given it wont be, at least having it actually go to someone with the potential to be a top future star is better than wasting it. In that respect, people could be more open to the idea, even if it wasnt the person they wanted in the idea getting the nod. Yeah but "someone" here is four or more different people. Like yeah someone would object to WWE going with the too-safe option, someone would object to them pushing Riddle, someone would object to them pushing a green dude who's not ready. But are those the same someone? Painting with too broad a brush and going like "oh someone will complain no matter what ergo nobody is happy" is discrediting people by holding against them that a group of people will hold different opinions and in someone from the group speaks up of one, that's somehow a sign of something. Different posters would complain for different reasons because the community holds diverse opinions on topics, and the person who thinks a past world champion would be a stale choice might not care about Riddle's allegations and be all in on him, and vice-versa. OP's point isn't invalidated because someone would make a thread complaining about Sheamus. This is just rhetorical calisthenics.
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khali
Dennis Stamp
Posts: 4,891
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Post by khali on Jul 4, 2022 22:50:48 GMT -5
I can’t get over how dumb it is that he’s just named Theory now. The reducing people to a single name thing is bad enough usually, but Theory is the worst. His name is just a word now. It’s like having a wrestler named Curtains.
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 4, 2022 23:01:58 GMT -5
I think I'm just personally numb to the "guy is successful but doesn't deserve it" thing because it has been overdone so much in WWE thanks to the MITB gimmick. We see this every year. Someone undeserving wins a title or the briefcase and all it does for me is devalue the title. It's also been a half assed storyline in this case with Theory. There's no real long term commitment to storytelling here. Theory is Vince's chosen one but Vince also is a face on camera and also he sometimes doesn't give him preferential treatment. And don't get me started on how Pearce as a decision maker has been portrayed in terms of heel/face dynamics. At least with Seth way back, he was clearly the chosen one by the Authority. It was clear and he had a posse and everything. They went all the way with it. But in general, I think to get over as a heel, Theory needs more than selfie guy that Vince kinda likes sometimes. He needs an extra something. Which makes me think... has the chosen one gimmick for a heel worked for anybody that wasn't already over? Didn't work for Drew back in his first run, didn't work for Elijah Burke in ECW, didn't work for Magnus in TNA... ironically only one I really remember it working for is EC3 in TNA... but that's also cause he was portrayed as a bully that was then made to work hard, he showed he could handle himself. It's like WWE sometimes forgets it's not a belt or an association with someone popular that gets them over... and I'll keep bringing up what Lance Storm said WOL back during the mass releases. WWE would rather retry angles with different talent then try to write new things for certain talent. They really believe it's plug and play so to speak... it's why for the longest time they tried to make every face act like The Rock.
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