Mozenrath
FANatic
Foppery and Whim
Speedy Speed Boy
Posts: 122,019
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Post by Mozenrath on Jul 10, 2022 15:51:10 GMT -5
I do care about looks but that's more than just physique, to me. I think AJ and Shinsuke have great looks, for example, even though AJ is small and Shinsuke's gangly af. Look also takes into account attire, hair, etc. So it's just a combination of things. Yeah, I guess for me, it's similar in that presentation matters. Physique can be part of it, but it isn't everything.
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pinja
Unicron
Posts: 3,143
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Post by pinja on Jul 10, 2022 15:52:51 GMT -5
Most comparisons within past generations only make sense confined in wrestling, because relative to the average population guys like Bret, Bruno and Rey were huge from a muscular standpoint. All of them greatly benefited from being muscular, their bodies weren't gimmicked beyond technical capabilities.
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Post by A Platypus Rave is Correct on Jul 10, 2022 15:53:18 GMT -5
Rey was absolutely a huge draw. Kids f***ing love Rey and he was a huge merch driver in his prime. Ratings, especially during WWE's "the brand is the real draw" era, are one of the least important ways to determine an individual's popularity. Using Ratings today... especially comparing them to either boom period without the historical context of ratings and how both the systems setting them as well as the culture at large changed is being purposely intellectually dishonest. Ratings today will never be like they were in the 80's or 90's there are so many different avenues of entertainment today, between streaming, DVR, youtube, not to mention the fact that there are hundreds of different channels that are on 24 hours a day... that nothing is getting the ratings they used to.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 10, 2022 15:59:18 GMT -5
It’s hard for me to care about physiques in 2022. Like, obviously, if you look like a goober, you can look like it regardless of height and weight but it’s hard to take a notion seriously when there is a diverse range of abilities depending on how you are as a performer.
Like, at Slammiversary, I saw 72 year old Mike Jackson balance on the barrier across half of the ringside area. I couldn’t do that at 24, never mind 34.
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Post by darbus alan on Jul 10, 2022 16:04:35 GMT -5
Kids f***ing love Rey and he was a huge merch driver in his prime. Ratings, especially during WWE's "the brand is the real draw" era, are one of the least important ways to determine an individual's popularity. Using Ratings today... especially comparing them to either boom period without the historical context of ratings and how both the systems setting them as well as the culture at large changed is being purposely intellectually dishonest. Ratings today will never be like they were in the 80's or 90's there are so many different avenues of entertainment today, between streaming, DVR, youtube, not to mention the fact that there are hundreds of different channels that are on 24 hours a day... that nothing is getting the ratings they used to. Exactly. Raw doesn't get the ratings it did during the Attitude Era. But nothing else does either except for NFL games. Raw is still one of the highest (if not the highest) rated shows on a regular basis on Mondays in the key demo. Smackdown and AEW's Dynamite are also the same way on their respective nights. People also tend to focus too much on P2+ viewership when that number really doesn't matter. Nielsen ratings are a function of where advertising dollars go, not overall popularity.
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Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,737
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Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 10, 2022 16:08:35 GMT -5
I'll say this, height isn't really a big deal to me but there is a point where skinniness can cause me to not take you very seriously. But that point is like... that Cheeseburger guy. (and hell, even he got crazy over in Japan lmao).
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Post by David-Arquette was in WCW 2000 on Jul 10, 2022 18:11:33 GMT -5
I like all sorts of physiques, though I do prefer the jacked, larger than life type. However, it does come down as well to character and ring style, and if the physiques fits that.
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tirtefaa
Unicron
If you wanna know the truth, you gotta dig up Johnny Booth.
Posts: 3,283
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Post by tirtefaa on Jul 10, 2022 18:19:49 GMT -5
You should definitely have something that makes you stand out in a crowd of people, but that doesn't always come down to physique.
That being said, I think a good physique goes hand in hand with the superhero cartoon world of professional wrestling.
There are exceptions to the rule, but physical strength is still seen as "big muscles".
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Post by sportatorium on Jul 10, 2022 18:37:50 GMT -5
Not to derail, but wonder if the Adam Cole bias is due more to his height than his physique? The beauty of wrestling as a sport is that two competitors can be a different size and still work against each other. No different than many other sports. Do people look at Messi and Neymar and decide they are too small? The stories told working together in the ring are way more important than the physical appearance of the wrestlers. Otherwise Brian Clark and Lex Luger would be two of the all time greatest.
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Kalmia
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Happy to be here
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Post by Kalmia on Jul 10, 2022 18:38:20 GMT -5
I've always liked the smaller, more athletic guys. I think wrestling works best when you have a mix of physiques though. If everyone is 6'4" and 280lbs then nobody looks special.
I think it's more important that the physique suits the wrestling style. I'm not going to buy a small guy overpowering a big one, but I'll buy him being more technical, fast, and having a better game plan. Someone like Eddie Kingston shouldn't have a power-based moveset - they should be punching them in the face and being brawlers. Variety that makes sense.
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Zone Was Wrong
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Currently living off the high that AEW brings every Wednesday and Friday
Posts: 17,458
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Post by Zone Was Wrong on Jul 10, 2022 19:23:19 GMT -5
It's all fiction in terms of story. My favorite anime has one of its most powerful characters be short as hell and he's universally loved (Vegeta if you're wondering).
AJ Styles is a badass and isn't a big dude and we never disbelieve he can be a world champ.
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Post by celtics543 on Jul 10, 2022 19:41:43 GMT -5
Maybe our definition of big draw is different but Rey wasn't a big draw. Adored, sure by hardcore fans but he didn't draw new people in. I'm not saying all big guys are draws and no little guy can be I'm just saying I don't think it's a coincidence that the biggest draws in the history of the sport were all 6'2" or larger and 220 or larger. American wrestling has never had a small guy that was the leader of a period where wrestling was super hot. I'm just going to zoom in on this bit real quick because all the subjectivity of 'is X believable' is of no interest to me, that's not something that be argued. But this last bit can. Because Bruno Sammartino was 5'10". You aren't talking about the history of the sport, you're talking very specifically about only the highs of one company within the past forty years, and marking those complicated successes by the factor of 'guys big'. I'll give you Bruno but he was perhaps the most built 5'10" guy of all time. He could lift a house. Plus wrestling was different at that point. Guys were a little smaller in general. I would agree though, I'm talking about the modern era 1984-present.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 19:46:32 GMT -5
Not really.
I particularly find the discussion hilarious about Adam Cole. "He doesn't look like he could beat X!"
Adam Cole is a cheating asshole who hasn't won a fair fight in months. That's part of why he's so effective in his role. Because despite being a guy who looks like he shouldn't beat the monsters, that asshole and his goober friends keep finding ways to cheat.
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Post by The Heartbreak TWERK on Jul 10, 2022 20:03:26 GMT -5
No, but a bunch of brainless geeks on Twitter tell me it's the most important thing.
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Post by hashtagdaley/JudasDay on Jul 10, 2022 20:08:47 GMT -5
Less physiques, and more the entire look as a package. Lashley’s unreal physique is a huge part of his look, so I care in his case. Meanwhile, ma.çè doesn’t need to be jacked to all oblivion to have one of the best looks in wrestling.
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 10, 2022 20:16:26 GMT -5
I only care when watching Maximum Male Models as I do need my juices titillated from time to time.
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Post by darbus alan on Jul 10, 2022 21:30:16 GMT -5
Not really. I particularly find the discussion hilarious about Adam Cole. "He doesn't look like he could beat X!" Adam Cole is a cheating asshole who hasn't won a fair fight in months. That's part of why he's so effective in his role. Because despite being a guy who looks like he shouldn't beat the monsters, that asshole and his goober friends keep finding ways to cheat. Cole cheats, is really athletic besides, and his finisher is an unpadded kneecap to the head. That's going to be a KO strike from a typical average schmoe, much less a trained fighter (in kayfabe anyway).
I like the unflashy finishers that would be knockouts in a "real" fight. Like Jericho's Judas Effect. Or all the Japanese strong style wrestlers that use lariat finishers. Hell, I didn't like JBL at all, but his Clothesline From Hell was a thing of beauty.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 21:33:51 GMT -5
Not really. I particularly find the discussion hilarious about Adam Cole. "He doesn't look like he could beat X!" Adam Cole is a cheating asshole who hasn't won a fair fight in months. That's part of why he's so effective in his role. Because despite being a guy who looks like he shouldn't beat the monsters, that asshole and his goober friends keep finding ways to cheat. Cole cheats, is really athletic besides, and his finisher is an unpadded kneecap to the head. That's going to be a KO strike from a typical average schmoe, much less a trained fighter (in kayfabe anyway).
I like the unflashy finishers that would be knockouts in a "real" fight. Like Jericho's Judas Effect. Or all the Japanese strong style wrestlers that use lariat finishers.
This is the OTHER thing that drives me crazy about this argument. The entire point of learning a martial art - and in universe wrestling is a martial art - is that technique can overcome the contest being a purely physical one. You don't need giant muscles all the time when you're really good at pinpoint kicking guys in the knee and then smashing them in the back of the head.
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Post by darbus alan on Jul 10, 2022 21:36:08 GMT -5
Cole cheats, is really athletic besides, and his finisher is an unpadded kneecap to the head. That's going to be a KO strike from a typical average schmoe, much less a trained fighter (in kayfabe anyway).
I like the unflashy finishers that would be knockouts in a "real" fight. Like Jericho's Judas Effect. Or all the Japanese strong style wrestlers that use lariat finishers.
This is the OTHER thing that drives me crazy about this argument. The entire point of learning a martial art - and in universe wrestling is a martial art - is that technique can overcome the contest being a purely physical one. You don't need giant muscles all the time when you're really good at pinpoint kicking guys in the knee and then smashing them in the back of the head. Indeed. I mean, that's the entire point of aikido for instance. It's meant to be a defensive martial art where the user is at a disadvantage when it comes to physical strength. It uses your opponent's strength against them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 10, 2022 21:46:52 GMT -5
Making your attire work for your physique is important. See Rey’s body suits that distract from his height and how differently Owens and Hero were received by the fans because one wore a t-shirt.
With that in mind Cole would be better off wearing tights, especially given how he favors HBK in look and style.
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