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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 16, 2022 2:27:12 GMT -5
I’ve always felt that pro wrestling is one of those mediums, especially with WWE and now TNA/Impact was for a time, that felt like going backwards was the way to get audiences back rather than trying to change with the times. Even here, we’re having all these “AE was popular, they should go back to that” discussions that, I’m sorry, we’ve been doing this for 20 years now. How have we not moved on from what was a 3-4 year period of history?
Heck, the Ruthless Aggression era at times was the embodiment of the “BRING BACK THE ATTITUDE ERA” crowd which didn’t quite work because, guess what, we already saw that and those people aren’t coming back now that there wasn’t another company to switch to during the ad breaks. It was HHH in a Kane mask having sex with a corpse or nothing.
Like, at least with Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, they tried new concepts or animation styles or characterizations and whilst they didn’t click with audience or work as intended, they didn’t go “Here’s the 80s Turtles again but in 2003!” (Yes, I know the “crossover” happened but that barely counts, especially when 2012 Turtles did a better job with it)
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jul 16, 2022 6:47:12 GMT -5
Not even joking- I’d mark out for another attempt at the Guest Host Era, but this time done right. Instead of booking every other celeb that USA wants on screen, limit it to personalities who we know love wrestling and WWE, and don’t have the superstars fawning over them, book the celeb to fawn over the wrestlers and their angles.
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Post by BayleyTiffyCodyCenaJudyHopps on Jul 16, 2022 6:53:00 GMT -5
It's not like the PG Era started when the Attitude Era ended. There was plenty of TV-14 Raw (in fact it lasted for far longer than the Attitude Era). The John Cena Era (who was considered the return of the 80's style kid friendly superface) was TV 14. The Triple H reign of terror was TV 14. Katie Vick was TV 14. And as said previously, I'm pretty sure Smackdown was always PG, even during the Attitude Era. It was a fun watch most weeks and that had little to do with the content rating. Also, content creators can specifically appeal to kids while also being PG-13/TV-14 or abandoning older viewers. The MCU and Stranger Things do it easily, those have intense content but it can be enjoyed by most 12 year olds without them being traumatized. Not to mention you can still get adults onboard with a smart PG product, see peak modern Disney and Pixar.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 16, 2022 9:46:52 GMT -5
I'm talking about a vague group of theoretical people who some posters say would totally tune in in droves if Raw was more like what they wanted it to be, but who get turned off by a small guy or by submission wrestling or, often, the PG rating and thigns not being sexist. I have genuinely seen the argument on this board before that being more aggressively sexual in an Attitude Era style would bring back 'the casuals'. That's the group I'm being dismissive of the existence of, not people who watch the show but don't hang out on forums. No those days are gone, but I do think that the type of fan that you mentioned does exist In a much smaller population these days. BUT they are the difference between why main roster WWE still outdraws AEW in total viewership. Having a 20 year head start tends to do that, WWE managed to build brand loyalty with segment of the audience.
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fw91
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by fw91 on Jul 16, 2022 10:00:41 GMT -5
No those days are gone, but I do think that the type of fan that you mentioned does exist In a much smaller population these days. BUT they are the difference between why main roster WWE still outdraws AEW in total viewership. Having a 20 year head start tends to do that, WWE managed to build brand loyalty with segment of the audience. Eh, AEW he been around a while now and is doing fine, but hasn’t really closed the gap. BUT it did beat NXT pretty easily, a show that has the WWE brand but doesn’t really fit the casual fan style. I don’t know why people go to the brand loyalty card. I think this is an easy explanation that doesn’t really knock either company.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 16, 2022 11:07:15 GMT -5
It's not like the PG Era started when the Attitude Era ended. There was plenty of TV-14 Raw (in fact it lasted for far longer than the Attitude Era). The John Cena Era (who was considered the return of the 80's style kid friendly superface) was TV 14. The Triple H reign of terror was TV 14. Katie Vick was TV 14. And as said previously, I'm pretty sure Smackdown was always PG, even during the Attitude Era. It was a fun watch most weeks and that had little to do with the content rating. Also, content creators can specifically appeal to kids while also being PG-13/TV-14 or abandoning older viewers. The MCU and Stranger Things do it easily, those have intense content but it can be enjoyed by most 12 year olds without them being traumatized. Not to mention you can still get adults onboard with a smart PG product, see peak modern Disney and Pixar. And, like, the last few years of children’s have taken on topics like identity, growth and, in one case, death. Like, I’m not saying WWE has to address this stuff (and I don’t think anyone there is really capable of understanding the subject matter outside a basic understanding) but it’s there. There are more adult shows unable to talking about these topics than recent kids shows. Not even joking- I’d mark out for another attempt at the Guest Host Era, but this time done right. Instead of booking every other celeb that USA wants on screen, limit it to personalities who we know love wrestling and WWE, and don’t have the superstars fawning over them, book the celeb to fawn over the wrestlers and their angles. Unironically, the A-Team edition of Raw is a favorite of mine (even though I could absolutely get why Bradley Cooper wanted to come in and then leave ASAP). How can you hate Sharlto Copley getting a squad of Dusty Rhodes and Mene Gene to save Rampage Jackson from Ted Dibiase Jr, IRS, Virgil and Rowdy Roddy Piper thinking Rampage was Mr. T?
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Post by xCompackx on Jul 16, 2022 11:23:40 GMT -5
At this point, I'd genuinely take bad TV over boring TV. If you can't produce good content, at least produce content I can laugh at and have fun with. Shit, one of the hottest things in WWE right now is Ezekiel and it's just a goofy gimmick, but it's at least fun.
Wrestling isn't hard.
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Post by Vincent Whiney on Jul 16, 2022 11:36:45 GMT -5
Bikini contest return time
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MolotovMocktail
Grimlock
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Post by MolotovMocktail on Jul 16, 2022 11:40:31 GMT -5
At this point, I'd genuinely take bad TV over boring TV. If you can't produce good content, at least produce content I can laugh at and have fun with. Shit, one of the hottest things in WWE right now is Ezekiel and it's just a goofy gimmick, but it's at least fun. Wrestling isn't hard. Agreed. I'll take Maximum Male Models over A guy. Who wants to win. A championship. Hell, 1995 was more entertaining than a lot of the past few years. The change got me wondering though...did they do this in anticipation of potentially signing MJF?
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Nr1Humanoid
Hank Scorpio
Is the #3 humanoid at best.
Posts: 5,585
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Post by Nr1Humanoid on Jul 16, 2022 12:05:39 GMT -5
They could have an R rating and still stay just as mediocre as always.
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Post by chronocross on Jul 16, 2022 16:00:17 GMT -5
I don't think much will change to be honest, maybe a curse word here or shocking moment but that's about it.
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Post by Rudy Gobert Weather Machine on Jul 16, 2022 16:18:34 GMT -5
Not even joking- I’d mark out for another attempt at the Guest Host Era, but this time done right. Instead of booking every other celeb that USA wants on screen, limit it to personalities who we know love wrestling and WWE, and don’t have the superstars fawning over them, book the celeb to fawn over the wrestlers and their angles. I want another Guest Host era done just as wrong as before because celebrity appearances are almost always decent to great nowadays and I miss when they were trash. I rewatched the 2009 RAW Christmas special that Johnny Damon hosted a couple months ago and dude was like a confused Bob Saget, it was hilarious. Dude looked like his kids roped him in to it the whole time.
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Post by EoE: Well There's Your Problem on Jul 16, 2022 16:36:04 GMT -5
Unironically, the A-Team edition of Raw is a favorite of mine (even though I could absolutely get why Bradley Cooper wanted to come in and then leave ASAP). How can you hate Sharlto Copley getting a squad of Dusty Rhodes and Mene Gene to save Rampage Jackson from Ted Dibiase Jr, IRS, Virgil and Rowdy Roddy Piper thinking Rampage was Mr. T? And on the same night as the debut of The Nexus, too.
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y4j1981
Dennis Stamp
Rowsdower
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Post by y4j1981 on Jul 16, 2022 16:49:05 GMT -5
Also, content creators can specifically appeal to kids while also being PG-13/TV-14 or abandoning older viewers. The MCU and Stranger Things do it easily, those have intense content but it can be enjoyed by most 12 year olds without them being traumatized. Not to mention you can still get adults onboard with a smart PG product, see peak modern Disney and Pixar. And, like, the last few years of children’s have taken on topics like identity, growth and, in one case, death. Like, I’m not saying WWE has to address this stuff (and I don’t think anyone there is really capable of understanding the subject matter outside a basic understanding) but it’s there. There are more adult shows unable to talking about these topics than recent kids shows. Not even joking- I’d mark out for another attempt at the Guest Host Era, but this time done right. Instead of booking every other celeb that USA wants on screen, limit it to personalities who we know love wrestling and WWE, and don’t have the superstars fawning over them, book the celeb to fawn over the wrestlers and their angles. Unironically, the A-Team edition of Raw is a favorite of mine (even though I could absolutely get why Bradley Cooper wanted to come in and then leave ASAP).Don't remember. Why did Bradley Cooper want to leave so quickly?
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 16, 2022 16:56:08 GMT -5
Unironically, the A-Team edition of Raw is a favorite of mine (even though I could absolutely get why Bradley Cooper wanted to come in and then leave ASAP). How can you hate Sharlto Copley getting a squad of Dusty Rhodes and Mene Gene to save Rampage Jackson from Ted Dibiase Jr, IRS, Virgil and Rowdy Roddy Piper thinking Rampage was Mr. T? And on the same night as the debut of The Nexus, too. F***, that was, wasn’t it? Wow. Don't remember. Why did Bradley Cooper want to leave so quickly? It was a 2010 edition of Raw. I’d want to leave as early as possible, too.
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Post by koreycaskets on Jul 16, 2022 17:34:48 GMT -5
Well if they do eventually end up with MJF, the whole "he'll be watered down ' may not be true.
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Perd
Patti Mayonnaise
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Post by Perd on Jul 16, 2022 18:33:08 GMT -5
I want the language to be so salty, that it makes that Diss the Diva segment sound like something produced by PBS Kids.
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Post by The Rick Jericho on Jul 16, 2022 21:42:56 GMT -5
Big Johhny is lusting at the chance to return to host Raw Divas search 2022 now.
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Post by avenger on Jul 17, 2022 6:43:27 GMT -5
Why are casuals put in quotes? Don’t think anyone can deny that they exist after they cheer loudly for Vince after his allegations. That proves their existence and influence on viewership imo. They watch but don’t care about the internet’s perception on things. If you mean old-school casuals, yeah it’s not going ammount to much. They aren’t going to like the new crop of talent who aren’t exactly Attitude era offspring. I'm talking about a vague group of theoretical people who some posters say would totally tune in in droves if Raw was more like what they wanted it to be, but who get turned off by a small guy or by submission wrestling or, often, the PG rating and thigns not being sexist. I have genuinely seen the argument on this board before that being more aggressively sexual in an Attitude Era style would bring back 'the casuals'. That's the group I'm being dismissive of the existence of, not people who watch the show but don't hang out on forums. The casual audience are very different. They weren't watching the Monday Night Wars because both companies were churning out amazing TV week after week. Far from it, because they weren't. Wrestling became cool. The cool kids (and the kids that wanted to be the cool kids) watched, so they knew what was going on. People weren't tuning in to see this weeks instalment of Los Boriquas v DOA or The Truth Commission or The NOD, or even Rey Mysterio v Juventud Guerrera or Psicosis, or even Hulk Hogan or the Rock or Goldberg. They were watching for the talking points. The thing that everyone would be talking about at school/college/uni/work the next day. Bret's debut, Jericho's debut, who is the third member of the NWO, DX invading Nitro (the week Nitro was conveniently for the WWF pre-empted weeks in advance), Mankind wins the WWF title. Then WCW pissed on everybody's chips, Russoed themselves into oblivion, and a good year before WCW died, they were so far from being cool, the Monday Night Wars stopped being cool, and WWF stopped being cool as a result. That's the casual audience that the USA Network want back. But, they're never coming back. And there's nothing the USA Network, WWE, Vince, Triple H, Cody, Nick Khan, Tony Khan or Dixie Carter will ever be able to do about it. 1998 - "Did you see Raw last night? No? You idiot, I can't believe you missed..." 2022 - "Did you see Raw last night? No? You've got to watch it on Hulu tonight, or look on the website, or Youtube or ..." Outside of the "cool" issue, going TV14 won't solve any woes. Whether people watch and carry on watching is always going to stand or fall on the writing. Vince Russo quit the WWF in the late nineties, because he thought having to write 4 hours of TV each week would burn him out and use up his genius ideas* too quick. Now, the WWE provides five hours content a week for the USA Network alone, add in Smackdown and that's an equivalent of an hours content a day. Sure, take adverts and the matches out, but the plots and the storylines take as much invention as they do on Friends, Stranger Things, And that's before you throw the unique curveball of McMahon and his whims into the mix. And unlike other shows, WWE have to try and avoid copying what AEW and Impact are doing (and vice versa), because comparisons will always be down to the subjective vision of the audience. *Which bearing in mind 90% of Russo's genius ideas are about worked shoots with elements of the Brian Pillman loose cannon character and the Montreal Screwjob (neither of which drew a dime), it's a bit of a moot point, but there's only so many ideas any creative writer can have without repetition, which is one of the reasons why Cornette's seven year rule is such a good one to follow.
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Post by Feargus McReddit on Jul 17, 2022 9:00:26 GMT -5
The casual audience are very different. They weren't watching the Monday Night Wars because both companies were churning out amazing TV week after week. Far from it, because they weren't. Wrestling became cool. The cool kids (and the kids that wanted to be the cool kids) watched, so they knew what was going on. People weren't tuning in to see this weeks instalment of Los Boriquas v DOA or The Truth Commission or The NOD, or even Rey Mysterio v Juventud Guerrera or Psicosis, or even Hulk Hogan or the Rock or Goldberg. They were watching for the talking points. The thing that everyone would be talking about at school/college/uni/work the next day. Bret's debut, Jericho's debut, who is the third member of the NWO, DX invading Nitro (the week Nitro was conveniently for the WWF pre-empted weeks in advance), Mankind wins the WWF title. Then WCW pissed on everybody's chips, Russoed themselves into oblivion, and a good year before WCW died, they were so far from being cool, the Monday Night Wars stopped being cool, and WWF stopped being cool as a result. That's the casual audience that the USA Network want back. But, they're never coming back. And there's nothing the USA Network, WWE, Vince, Triple H, Cody, Nick Khan, Tony Khan or Dixie Carter will ever be able to do about it. 1998 - "Did you see Raw last night? No? You idiot, I can't believe you missed..." 2022 - "Did you see Raw last night? No? You've got to watch it on Hulu tonight, or look on the website, or Youtube or ..." Pretty much all of this but also to add expecting wrestling to go back to where it was when it was cool is pretty the equivalent of asking for networks to do Saturday Morning programming again. Sure, the nostalgia factor might work for a bit but adults who are nostalgic aren’t going to watch something at a set time and the choices kids have, they aren’t going to pick it over YouTube, streaming services etc.
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