Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
Posts: 47,944
Member is Online
|
Post by Dub H on Jul 24, 2022 15:45:36 GMT -5
I personally think Gresham main issues are both That Samoa Joe vs Jay Lethal got much more build than him and that the tag titles main evented over him
|
|
|
Post by 1 Free Moon-Down with Burger on Jul 24, 2022 15:48:59 GMT -5
Should’ve thrown the belt on Cary Silkin’s desk
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 15:50:02 GMT -5
I don't think it unlikely that Gresham has valid complaints - it's consistent with other stuff about AEW's backstage, and there was visible chaos with TBE becoming the Embassy. But also... Gresham's consistently given the vibe that he just doesn't like having a boss, and he has already flamed out at trying to be the boss. I feel quite sure that TK screwed something up, but I also can't help but feel like the only thing that ever kept Gresham happy was his nerdy dedication to ROH as a brand. Yeah Gresham being the ROH champ and being able to go to different companies to defend the belt and know full well he wouldn't lose it seemed to be the happiest he was. Like I'm a fan of Gresham the wrestler but if ya follow his career he's done this pretty much everywhere in the US (only place he didn't do it was WXW in Germany). Of course I think again no matter how talented Gresham may be when you're trying to get a TV deal, and your partners allegedly love Claudio giving him the world title of the brand may not be a bad decision... and honestly once the Claudio stuff was rushed to get the title on the show it felt like Claudio was getting the belt.
|
|
|
Post by Final Countdown Jones on Jul 24, 2022 15:50:04 GMT -5
Okay so it sounds like he wasn't ghosted and he did have lines to people in the company and to Tony Khan, he was just mad. And if he was just mad then I'm not sure how much mega blame I can put on Tony for that. If he had a plan for the guy and the problem was just that he didn't like the plan, that's kind of separate from any issues of what other talent have complained about.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
|
Post by Mecca on Jul 24, 2022 15:50:33 GMT -5
I personally think Gresham main issues are both That Samoa Joe vs Jay Lethal got much more build than him and that the tag titles main evented over him If he had gone after that FTR/Briscoes match the crowd would have literally given them nothing... It'd have been like that mania when H/Orton went after Taker HBK to silence.
|
|
dpg
Samurai Cop
Posts: 2,477
|
Post by dpg on Jul 24, 2022 15:51:48 GMT -5
Can see him going to Impact, already been there and married to Jordynne.
|
|
Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,127
|
Post by Mecca on Jul 24, 2022 15:53:46 GMT -5
Can see him going to Impact, already been there and married to Jordynne. Both of them there together may be to much for anyone to handle.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 15:55:58 GMT -5
The latest from Fightful. It seems like there was dissatisfaction with the communication channels but it feels like the channels worked as intended. It feels like the differences were more based in creative direction: Fightful Select has learned many additional details about the lead up to Jonathan Gresham requesting his AEW/ROH release. We're told that Gresham met with Tony Khan and others at 4 PM EST before Death Before Dishonor, and was admittedly heated, and not happy with the direction of the booking and his character. It was agreed upon that the context of the conversation would remain private, and details originally didn't seem to emerge from anyone in the room, however by the time the conversation was over, much of the locker room and staff could physically hear how it went down. Building security was even said to have overheard the conversation. Gresham had spoken with QT Marshall multiple times over the past week, albeit briefly, which we've heard went well. It was also noted that Sonjay Dutt was a point of contact. The frustration on Gresham's part seemed to be the direction of creative, which ultimately ends with Tony Khan, and not being able to be given answers as a result. Gresham was supposedly told that those decisions had to be ran through Tony, who he wasn't able to meet with until a few hours before the show. The general preferred process is that talent speaks to one of the AEW coaches, who are then in contact with Tony Khan. If the conversations are about booking, they have to be relayed to Tony Khan. The coaches pass on dozens of ideas either from themselves or talent to Khan, who is then in charge of making those ideas a reality or deciding they don't fit. Those answers are then to be relayed back to the talent. For those asking about names involved in that, it's usually AEW coaches, as well as Christopher Daniels, QT Marshall, Pat Buck. We're told that Megha Parekh and Sonjay Dutt also help out and Khan is in communication with them at least ten times a day. There are also plenty of situations in which Tony Khan has made efforts to talk directly to talent, although numerous have said that it's declined since the Daily's Place era due to the changing of the world and travel in general. It was said that the AEW side of things believed that Gresham came into the meeting with his mind made up, and they'd not seen him heated like that before, chalking it up to Gresham being passionate about his beliefs in ROH, the brand, and himself. They felt as if there was a disconnect between the access to speak with people about their creative, and it becoming perceived "creative control." Gresham was said to have a vision for his creative direction and where things should go with him, and it was different from what Tony Khan and ROH had hoped for him. Specifically, we learned that Gresham wasn't in favor of turning heel, but that ROH believed there was a "bigger picture" for that. We're told that the finish had been at least hinted to Gresham, but no word on if he knew before Saturday. In the past, several former AEW talent have spoken about the lack of communication within talent relations being a point of frustration for them. Joey Janela confirmed to Fightful that he hadn't reached out to AEW coaches prior to his exit. Marko Stunt had emailed AEW in an official capacity, but we haven't heard about follow up to coaches themselves on his part. Reading this that... sounds like how things has always gone for Gresham. I didnt read that as much as lack of communication as it was Gresham not liking the creative direction. Though I will say this if one of his contentions comes down to him not wanting to be a heel (and even as a fan of Gresham he is kind of boring as a face) well... I dunno what to tell ya chief.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 15:57:47 GMT -5
Can see him going to Impact, already been there and married to Jordynne. Both of them there together may be to much for anyone to handle. I like Jordan as a talent but... well for as much as I criticize Gresham for how he is, Jordynne is another headache in itself. Let's just say if you think Joey Janela caused too much twitter drama, Jordynne is 10 times worse
|
|
Toates Madhackrviper
King Koopa
Is owed an Admin life-debt.
This avatar is so far out of date I might as well stick with it forever now.
Posts: 10,726
|
Post by Toates Madhackrviper on Jul 24, 2022 15:58:03 GMT -5
Thing is, Gresham is right about the build being rushed, and playing second fiddle to Joe/Lethal. So I don't really blame him for being pissed there.
|
|
AEW19
Bubba Ho-Tep
Posts: 606
|
Post by AEW19 on Jul 24, 2022 16:01:00 GMT -5
The latest from Fightful. It seems like there was dissatisfaction with the communication channels but it feels like the channels worked as intended. It feels like the differences were more based in creative direction: Fightful Select has learned many additional details about the lead up to Jonathan Gresham requesting his AEW/ROH release. We're told that Gresham met with Tony Khan and others at 4 PM EST before Death Before Dishonor, and was admittedly heated, and not happy with the direction of the booking and his character. It was agreed upon that the context of the conversation would remain private, and details originally didn't seem to emerge from anyone in the room, however by the time the conversation was over, much of the locker room and staff could physically hear how it went down. Building security was even said to have overheard the conversation. Gresham had spoken with QT Marshall multiple times over the past week, albeit briefly, which we've heard went well. It was also noted that Sonjay Dutt was a point of contact. The frustration on Gresham's part seemed to be the direction of creative, which ultimately ends with Tony Khan, and not being able to be given answers as a result. Gresham was supposedly told that those decisions had to be ran through Tony, who he wasn't able to meet with until a few hours before the show. The general preferred process is that talent speaks to one of the AEW coaches, who are then in contact with Tony Khan. If the conversations are about booking, they have to be relayed to Tony Khan. The coaches pass on dozens of ideas either from themselves or talent to Khan, who is then in charge of making those ideas a reality or deciding they don't fit. Those answers are then to be relayed back to the talent. For those asking about names involved in that, it's usually AEW coaches, as well as Christopher Daniels, QT Marshall, Pat Buck. We're told that Megha Parekh and Sonjay Dutt also help out and Khan is in communication with them at least ten times a day. There are also plenty of situations in which Tony Khan has made efforts to talk directly to talent, although numerous have said that it's declined since the Daily's Place era due to the changing of the world and travel in general. It was said that the AEW side of things believed that Gresham came into the meeting with his mind made up, and they'd not seen him heated like that before, chalking it up to Gresham being passionate about his beliefs in ROH, the brand, and himself. They felt as if there was a disconnect between the access to speak with people about their creative, and it becoming perceived "creative control." Gresham was said to have a vision for his creative direction and where things should go with him, and it was different from what Tony Khan and ROH had hoped for him. Specifically, we learned that Gresham wasn't in favor of turning heel, but that ROH believed there was a "bigger picture" for that. We're told that the finish had been at least hinted to Gresham, but no word on if he knew before Saturday. In the past, several former AEW talent have spoken about the lack of communication within talent relations being a point of frustration for them. Joey Janela confirmed to Fightful that he hadn't reached out to AEW coaches prior to his exit. Marko Stunt had emailed AEW in an official capacity, but we haven't heard about follow up to coaches themselves on his part. If this is the genuine hierarchy for how you pitch creative ideas to Tony, it just sounds like the toys were thrown out of the pram once he knew he was dropping the title.
|
|
clifford
King Koopa
Shingo Takagi stan
Posts: 10,683
|
Post by clifford on Jul 24, 2022 16:01:30 GMT -5
Reading into it a bit, I feel Gresham wasn't too excited about staying and so was looking for a way out, and Khan wasn't exactly looking to keep him at any cost either and likewise, had no problem with him wanting a way out. Neither party happy about the arrangement, and both took the quickest way to solving it.
|
|
|
Post by Rudy Gobert Fadeaway on Jul 24, 2022 16:03:01 GMT -5
Footage of what went down
|
|
Square
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
Official Ambassador
Grand Poobah of Scavenger Hunts 2011
Square-Because he looks good at all the right angles.
Posts: 18,701
|
Post by Square on Jul 24, 2022 16:03:24 GMT -5
They really should have just vacatated the titles and rebooted rather than trying to do the honourable thing of keeping the matches for Supercard of Honor. With the lack that they used him I don't think AEW saw any upside in Gresham and this was "lets be nice" rather than "he's going to be a star!".
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 16:05:49 GMT -5
Reading into it a bit, I feel Gresham wasn't too excited about staying and so was looking for a way out, and Khan wasn't exactly looking to keep him at any cost either and likewise, had no problem with him wanting a way out. Neither party happy about the arrangement, and both took the quickest way to solving it. I honestly have wondered that too. If you listen to some of Gresham's interviews since ROH initially folded he kind of sounded like he felt since he was owed being the top face. He didn't come out cocky but he did interviews where it almost sounded like he felt he was doing ROH a favor by defending their belt so they owed him. But again, broken record time, this is normal for Gresham.
|
|
|
Post by Denny Zen is Cooking™ on Jul 24, 2022 16:06:13 GMT -5
I’m not really one to defend a billionaire business owner, but it’s a little funny how people are willing to accept at face value that TK was “ghosting” Gresham before the show.
Like, how would that even be possible? Dude had been on AEW television for 2 weeks leading up to the show. He showed up at the PPV and worked the match. I find it hard to believe that AEW management, just, wasn’t talking to him.
|
|
asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 21,342
|
Post by asuka007 on Jul 24, 2022 16:07:50 GMT -5
Tony not being able to meet with the freaking champion until right before the show is pretty iffy honestly.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 16:08:50 GMT -5
I’m not really one to defend a billionaire business owner, but it’s a little funny how people are willing to accept at face value that TK was “ghosting” Gresham before the show. Like, how would that even be possible? Dude had been on AEW television for 2 weeks leading up to the show. He showed up at the PPV and worked the match. I find it hard to believe that AEW management, just, wasn’t talking to him. Not necessarily here but there is a part of the wrestling fanbase that is ready to jump at anything that can give them a chance to criticize TK. And yes Tony is not everybody's cup of tea and can be abrasive and snarky so part of it is understandable. And in this case when the initial report says there was communication issues (a common criticism of people leaving aew) it's somewhat understandable
|
|
spagett
Hank Scorpio
Great Job!
Posts: 5,649
|
Post by spagett on Jul 24, 2022 16:09:54 GMT -5
Okay so it sounds like he wasn't ghosted and he did have lines to people in the company and to Tony Khan, he was just mad. And if he was just mad then I'm not sure how much mega blame I can put on Tony for that. If he had a plan for the guy and the problem was just that he didn't like the plan, that's kind of separate from any issues of what other talent have complained about. Yup. It ultimately sounds like Gresham thinks he should be a top guy and Tony Khan doesn't seem to see him that way. I can understand being frustrated or not liking the creative but to swear at Tony and then quit seems way over the top. Claudio is a bigger star than he is and much more over, it makes sense to change the title to him.
|
|
|
Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 16:11:29 GMT -5
They really should have just vacatated the titles and rebooted rather than trying to do the honourable thing of keeping the matches for Supercard of Honor. With the lack that they used him I don't think AEW saw any upside in Gresham and this was "lets be nice" rather than "he's going to be a star!". When ROH was first bought and the match of Bandido vs Gresham was announced I thought Bandido was winning since he was a guy AEW really wanted to sign. Of course around the same time it came out that Bandido didn't really want to sign any exclusive contracts. And there of course did seem to be apprehension on people coming from ROH's side on what ROH was going to be. Initially many were saying it was going to be developmental but as stuff has come out it sounds more like it'll be like the DDT/NOAH relationship
|
|