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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 14:48:18 GMT -5
Gresham takes himself too serious and in the long run is his own worst enemy Is it really such a bad thing to take yourself so seriously? Obviously not to this extent but, it’s a weird criticism to say somebody cares too much. Not everyone has Kevin Nash’s nonchalance about everything. Protecting the brand is fine. There are wrestlers not half as good as Gresham that protect their brand. The issue is that Gresham does have a history of overreacting if things don't go exactly how he wants them to. |
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Post by flowercity on Jul 24, 2022 14:50:03 GMT -5
There will always be “talent relation issues” as long as pro wrestling exists. A lot of performers hold themselves in high regard and not everyone’s ego can be properly satisfied. Impossible to push everyone to the top. The idea this is a real issue with Tony Khan, compared to anyone else, is fishing. Talent have been unpleased with their position and focus since the inception of pro wrestling.
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asuka007
Fry's dog Seymour
Posts: 20,751
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Post by asuka007 on Jul 24, 2022 14:55:03 GMT -5
AEW is starting to develop a serious talent relations issue. And it’s really cowardly to ghost Gresham just because he doesn’t like or get him. If you don’t like them, don’t have him go over Bandido and put him on your main promotion’s shows out of obligation. As unprofessional as Gresham is, this is starting to become a recurring issue. People have been saying the “TK plays favorite” stuff more and more, because it is increasingly obvious. |
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Legion
Fry's dog Seymour
Amy Pond's #1 fan
Hail Hydra!
Posts: 22,860
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Post by Legion on Jul 24, 2022 15:05:23 GMT -5
Not really surprised.
These are on going issues in AEW around talent relations and communication.
We've all said it before that he needs to get some proper help in to do this stuff, he doesnt, it keeps happening.
Hopefully he eventually listens and makes a change. If he doesnt, then people will get used to it like they have got used to Vince's foibles for all these years.
Or they wont, and well see people turn on Tony.
Either/or
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Burst
El Dandy
*inarticulate squawking*
Posts: 8,599
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Post by Burst on Jul 24, 2022 15:07:06 GMT -5
Definitely it's starting to feel like someone needs to pull TK aside and kind of emphasize that as much as you might want to fight unprofessionalism with unprofessionalism, it's not a good look and makes both parties look bad.
But yeah, you can definitely take yourself seriously and protect your brand, but you should also be able to do it without dragging your grievances into public, whether on social media or by more or less throwing a hissy fit during a live show. I'm also a bit side eyeing because of how quickly Gresham essentially went from 1 to 100; it's almost a BPD level of extreme responses to go from "I've got a legit gripe with how this match was booked or how this has been handled so far" to "I'm leaving wrestling forever". Honestly, to me at least it just feels like a marginally more grown-up version of people threatening to leave forums after being told off by a mod.
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Jul 24, 2022 15:09:29 GMT -5
Not absolving Tony because ultimately, he’s the captain of the ship. But it does seem like a talent relations issue, and it does seem like as great of a wrestler Christopher Daniels is, he’s pretty shitty at his job. And while I get in some sense why Gresham is upset, but he has a bad rep for being a hothead. So he gets zero sympathy for me for acting unprofessional.
I think CD needs some help if he is struggling, why not add people like Regal, Luther to help him?(the latter is well respected in the lockerroom).
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Jul 24, 2022 15:11:09 GMT -5
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
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Post by Mecca on Jul 24, 2022 15:13:43 GMT -5
AEW is starting to develop a serious talent relations issue. And it’s really cowardly to ghost Gresham just because he doesn’t like or get him. If you don’t like them, don’t have him go over Bandido and put him on your main promotion’s shows out of obligation. As unprofessional as Gresham is, this is starting to become a recurring issue. People have been saying the “TK plays favorite” stuff more and more, because it is increasingly obvious. Sorry to say this, when you're trying to get TV for ROH and you actively know that Discovery likes foreign inclusion and loves Claudio..you do what you gotta go. It's also hard for me to give Gresham the benefit of the doubt when he has a history of being a hot head that can't handle shit not going his way. If doing a job that may ultimately lead to ROH getting a TV a deal is beneath you because you view yourself as something no one else does..maybe just maybe some self reflection is needed. |
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Post by kingoftheindies on Jul 24, 2022 15:16:46 GMT -5
Not absolving Tony because ultimately, he’s the captain of the ship. But it does seem like a talent relations issue, and it does seem like as great of a wrestler Christopher Daniels is, he’s pretty shitty at his job. And while I get in some sense why Gresham is upset, but he has a bad rep for being a hothead. So he gets zero sympathy for me for acting unprofessional. I think CD needs some help if he is struggling, why not add people like Regal, Luther to help him?(the latter is well respected in the lockerroom).
I"m curious to hear what SRS's follow up is (he did say he was reaching out to the AEW talent relations department) |
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Post by Mr Mario Mario on Jul 24, 2022 15:27:03 GMT -5
Yeah this seems like what probably is an overreaction to a legitimate point
Gresham may have overreacted but the communication may be dogs***. Doesn’t have to be one or the other
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Post by Cyno on Jul 24, 2022 15:28:22 GMT -5
I hope whatever blowup Gresham had wasn’t the cause of putting the world title match first on the show. It would be really shitty if it was. Claudio’s first world title win shouldn’t jerk the curtain. I don’t care if Gresham trashed his whole hotel room. World title matches either being a hot opener or even a midcard match isn't all that unusual for ROH though. And with that insane FTR vs Briscoes 2 out of 3 falls match, you can't really book anything after that. Crowd was going to be completely out of it. It was the right call to make that the last match of the night. Though it also makes me wonder if the world title match was supposed to be as relatively short as it was or if that was Gresham losing his smile. |
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Post by thegatewaydrug on Jul 24, 2022 15:28:23 GMT -5
It sounds like there's plenty of blame to go around on both sides. Khan may want to rethink Christopher Daniels as talent relations guy if he ghosts people like this because you can't do that. If the people under him aren't doing their jobs, you get new people. On the other end, Gresham has all the talent in the world but a massive chip on his shoulder. And this sorta thing is why it took him so long to get the world title in the Sinclair ROH to begin with. Then you've got Jordynne who is really similar to him in personality and kind of an enabler. He's not Low Ki or Austin Aries level of scum, but he can be a headache. If I was Khan, I'd give Gresham a bit to cool off. If he still wants his release while calm and rational, then grant it. What a bad influence CD must be on the company! But I think the whole situation is overblown. Gresham probably just hates Prince Nana and refused to join The Embassy. |
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Post by Dr. Bolty, Disaster Enby on Jul 24, 2022 15:28:54 GMT -5
I don't think it unlikely that Gresham has valid complaints - it's consistent with other stuff about AEW's backstage, and there was visible chaos with TBE becoming the Embassy.
But also... Gresham's consistently given the vibe that he just doesn't like having a boss, and he has already flamed out at trying to be the boss. I feel quite sure that TK screwed something up, but I also can't help but feel like the only thing that ever kept Gresham happy was his nerdy dedication to ROH as a brand.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on Jul 24, 2022 15:32:04 GMT -5
Gresham takes himself too serious and in the long run is his own worst enemy Is it really such a bad thing to take yourself so seriously? Obviously not to this extent but, it’s a weird criticism to say somebody cares too much. Not everyone has Kevin Nash’s nonchalance about everything. When you throw fits about things not going your way...burn bridges with AEW, knowing full well WWE ain't interested.. You're essentially murking your career because you can't handle the idea of being paid pretty well to not be THE guy. |
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on Jul 24, 2022 15:34:50 GMT -5
I hope whatever blowup Gresham had wasn’t the cause of putting the world title match first on the show. It would be really shitty if it was. Claudio’s first world title win shouldn’t jerk the curtain. I don’t care if Gresham trashed his whole hotel room. World title matches either being a hot opener or even a midcard match isn't all that unusual for ROH though. And with that insane FTR vs Briscoes 2 out of 3 falls match, you can't really book anything after that. Crowd was going to be completely out of it. It was the right call to make that the last match of the night. Though it also makes me wonder if the world title match was supposed to be as relatively short as it was or if that was Gresham losing his smile. Gresham seemed fine until he found out he was losing and lost his shit..that likely led to the match being shorter. Also Claudio is a much much bigger star than him while being universally liked and respected while being humble..having bitch face about losing to Claudio is pretty on par for Gresham, dude would tell you that prime Austin shouldn't go over him. |
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Dub H
Crow T. Robot
Captain Pixel: the Game Master
I ❤ Aniki
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Post by Dub H on Jul 24, 2022 15:38:59 GMT -5
That promo saying he will be on AEW every week outwrestling your favorite aged badly very quickly
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Post by Cyno on Jul 24, 2022 15:39:39 GMT -5
Is it really such a bad thing to take yourself so seriously? Obviously not to this extent but, it’s a weird criticism to say somebody cares too much. Not everyone has Kevin Nash’s nonchalance about everything. When you throw fits about things not going your way...burn bridges with AEW, knowing full well WWE ain't interested.. You're essentially murking your career because you can't handle the idea of being paid pretty well to not be THE guy. Yeah like he wants to retire. There's almost no chance WWE would be interested in him even with the change in management. Terminus went up in smoke. That leaves Impact, MLW, NWA, or Japan. |
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markymark
Bill S. Preston, Esq.
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Post by markymark on Jul 24, 2022 15:40:30 GMT -5
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Post by "Evil Brood" Jackson Vanik on Jul 24, 2022 15:41:31 GMT -5
The latest from Fightful. It seems like there was dissatisfaction with the communication channels but it feels like the channels worked as intended. It feels like the differences were more based in creative direction:
Fightful Select has learned many additional details about the lead up to Jonathan Gresham requesting his AEW/ROH release.
We're told that Gresham met with Tony Khan and others at 4 PM EST before Death Before Dishonor, and was admittedly heated, and not happy with the direction of the booking and his character. It was agreed upon that the context of the conversation would remain private, and details originally didn't seem to emerge from anyone in the room, however by the time the conversation was over, much of the locker room and staff could physically hear how it went down. Building security was even said to have overheard the conversation.
Gresham had spoken with QT Marshall multiple times over the past week, albeit briefly, which we've heard went well. It was also noted that Sonjay Dutt was a point of contact. The frustration on Gresham's part seemed to be the direction of creative, which ultimately ends with Tony Khan, and not being able to be given answers as a result. Gresham was supposedly told that those decisions had to be ran through Tony, who he wasn't able to meet with until a few hours before the show.
The general preferred process is that talent speaks to one of the AEW coaches, who are then in contact with Tony Khan. If the conversations are about booking, they have to be relayed to Tony Khan. The coaches pass on dozens of ideas either from themselves or talent to Khan, who is then in charge of making those ideas a reality or deciding they don't fit. Those answers are then to be relayed back to the talent. For those asking about names involved in that, it's usually AEW coaches, as well as Christopher Daniels, QT Marshall, Pat Buck. We're told that Megha Parekh and Sonjay Dutt also help out and Khan is in communication with them at least ten times a day.
There are also plenty of situations in which Tony Khan has made efforts to talk directly to talent, although numerous have said that it's declined since the Daily's Place era due to the changing of the world and travel in general.
It was said that the AEW side of things believed that Gresham came into the meeting with his mind made up, and they'd not seen him heated like that before, chalking it up to Gresham being passionate about his beliefs in ROH, the brand, and himself. They felt as if there was a disconnect between the access to speak with people about their creative, and it becoming perceived "creative control." Gresham was said to have a vision for his creative direction and where things should go with him, and it was different from what Tony Khan and ROH had hoped for him. Specifically, we learned that Gresham wasn't in favor of turning heel, but that ROH believed there was a "bigger picture" for that. We're told that the finish had been at least hinted to Gresham, but no word on if he knew before Saturday.
In the past, several former AEW talent have spoken about the lack of communication within talent relations being a point of frustration for them. Joey Janela confirmed to Fightful that he hadn't reached out to AEW coaches prior to his exit. Marko Stunt had emailed AEW in an official capacity, but we haven't heard about follow up to coaches themselves on his part.
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Mecca
Wade Wilson
Posts: 25,099
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Post by Mecca on Jul 24, 2022 15:42:03 GMT -5
When you throw fits about things not going your way...burn bridges with AEW, knowing full well WWE ain't interested.. You're essentially murking your career because you can't handle the idea of being paid pretty well to not be THE guy. Yeah like he wants to retire. There's almost no chance WWE would be interested in him even with the change in management. Terminus went up in smoke. That leaves Impact, MLW, NWA, or Japan. Plus think about all of the promotions that have good relationships with AEW that'd probably not book him due to this.. He gonna go work for NOAH and CMLL? He really limited his options. |
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